| Author | Message | ||
     Xtopherj |
hey y'all, i've got the bike back home and i replaced the VR. however it still wouldn't run unless it was on jumpers from my rig. i've got the battery out and down at the dealer for a recharge overnight. i'll be taking the old VR down to have it tested tomorrow and see if that was truly the problem. i've done my rounds and haven't found any loose connections, yet. here's a quick question... who's the friggin' genius that designed this motorcycle? specifically, the ground wire connector on the back-side of the VR. what a pain in my ass to get to! thanks for all the great help, and i'll keep you posted. cj | ||
| Reepicheep |
cj... did you check to make sure there is not an internal break and intermittent connection on the positive or ground wire coming right off the battery? Others have seen this. The insulation will still hold the thing together physically, but the electrical connection is lousy. | ||
| Xtopherj |
ok, i'm back on the road! i went down to pick up the battery after a day and a half on the charger and it only had a 9.5 volt reading. so, the service guy hooked me up with another battery that he had "laying around". he tested my old VR but it tested fine. i got back to the garage and checked all of the connections for shorts (visually and with a gentle tug). nothing i could find there. ? so, i slapped in the "new" battery, fired it up and away i went. i'm not real comfortable with the way things stand. i hope to be doing some electrical diagnostics this weekend when i can get my hands on a meter. on a side note... I'VE NEVER RIDDEN MY BUELL TO THE YAMAHA DEALERSHIP TO BUY REPLACEMENT PARTS! | ||
| Chucks1w |
For anyone who needs individual parts for your headlight assembly such as just the glass lense, see you local BMW dealer. The lense part # is 63-12-1-358-147. | ||
| Jmartz |
It is early fall here in the South. Cool breezes abound and the best of riding season is just begining for me. Well the charging system has ceased to function at 47600+ miles. I was lucky to be able to find a hill to push start it. Because of something we have here in GA called Ad Valorem tax on vehicles, I have to wait till December to buy new. Otherwise I will pay both sales tax and Ad Valorem one after the other. I have no plans to repair the old S1 right away. Guess I'm vehicleless for a couple of months. | ||
| Blake |
JM, Stator and/or voltage regulator? Why not repair/replace?  | ||
| Bobpaul |
It's back! The intermittant tach jumping and engine missfiring has returned. I've been able to get a good handle on the symptoms this time. It only happens after the bike is warmed up. One time it happened after 14 miles, another time after 38 miles. Today I discovered that it is more likely to happen at high RPM. The missfire lasts only 1/2 second at a time but is spaced out every few seconds. In total it might do it for about 10 seconds and then not again for several minutes. Usually the bike pops through the exhaust when it missfires. It's almost the same as when you hit the rev limiter. But when it starts firing again the tach jumps up a thousand rpm or so. Today I ran through some of the tests outlined in the service manual and am 99.9% cetain that it is NOT the charging system. I even rode the bike around with a voltmeter attached and it was a nice steady 14.3 volts. I also did the ohmeter test on the coil and all is good. New ignition wires and have tried two sets of plugs with no change. Seems to me that it is either the ignition unit or the trigger unit on the camshaft. Anybody else have this kind of problem? Anybody know how to determine if its the ignition box or the trigger? ps: bike is an '00 M2 | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Bob, Did you check ALL of the undertank connections? My 00 M2 had the exact same symptoms. Found a loose and slighty corroded connection. I hit them all with contact cleaner and applied a bit of diaelectric grease. Blake, I know you have a problem with the grease on low voltage connections, not sure why as I've used the stuff for years with no problems. Did you have a bad experience in the past due to diaelectric grease? Just curious. Is there a high and low voltage type? I've had the same large tube forever. I've never really looked at the labeling too close. Bob, even if you don't use the grease, check all the connections. Brad | ||
| Hootowl |
Running at freeway speeds a few days ago, engine quit. I coasted to a gas station and checked my fuses. Sure enough, the main 20 amp fuse was blown. I replaced it with the spare, and it blew immediately. I turned off the kill switch, replaced the fuse again, turned on the ignition switch, and the fuse held. Turned on the kill switch, fuse popped. Hmmmm. So I unplugged the fuel pump, same thing. I unplugged the ECM. Same thing. I'm out of fuses now that I can do without (It's still dark out), so I called a motorcycle towing outfit (Champion Towing in Houston) and they took me to Stubbs Cycle. In hindsight, I should have had them take me home, but that's another expensive story. Anyway, turned out to be the speedo sensor. It didn't just stop working, it was shorted out. That's the second failure for that part I've had, but with different failure modes. Something to be aware of if you find yourself in a similar situation. | ||
| Sparky |
Bob, The first time you had this problem something caused the main breaker to pop and all the lights went out. Has this been resolved yet? This sounds like an intermittent short to ground in the wiring harness somewhere. This can drain enough voltage to cause misfires when the short occurs. Check the ignition ckt from the key switch all the way to the cam sensor looking for frayed insulation. One of the 3 wires is the switched 12V. Other people have found parts making intermittent contact with hot wires on brake switches and other electrical components. Look under the seat to determine if any wires are being crushed when you sit down. Did you have the voltmeter on the ignition ckt or the battery when it it read 14.3V and was misfiring? You said the tach jumps when misfiring. Does it ever drop to 0 rpm and the engine die momentarily when this happens? This is a symptom of the classic sidestand switch failure. Exhaust popping is common. This is not a short but an open circuit that interrupts the 12V to the ignition. Have you made any mods to your bike or is it stock? Sparky | ||
| Blake |
BluzM2/Brad, Yeah, I had coated the low voltage connection on the coil. The engine soon suffered problems as a result. It would cut out, mostly at low revs like when idling. I wiped the connections clean and the problem disappeared. It is possible I was overzealous with the grease. A thin conservative application might be okay. Obviously so since you've had no trouble.  | ||
| Bobpaul |
Bluzm2 & Sparky, THANKS for your suggestions The bike is a stock 00 M2, but with a few of the 01 upgrades: shock, muffler bracket, tach. I've taken the tank and rear section off and inspected each connector. The idiot light plug had a small amount of corrosion on the terminals... so I removed each pin one at a time and cleaned them. All the others look good. There is no sign of damage to the harness anywhere. I did not check the cam sensor connection located near the starter because it is so hard to get to, plus it's a sealed connector. A little history: three weeks ago the bike was miss firing and tach jumping and the circuit breaker tripped a few times. I went to a dealer and they replaced the battery. I didn't agree given the symptoms but it ran perfectly for the next two weeks. In hindsight an intermittant short in one of the cells would do this... the voltage would drop by 2.2 volts and the generator would pump huge power into the battery, which in turn will trip the breaker. The tach needle always jumps upwards. I tried hitting the kill switch and putting the sidestand partway down while riding to see what that did. In both cases the tach needle went to zero. When I had the voltmeter on the bike it was running pretty good. I'll have to remount it, or bettter an analog voltmeter, and try again. It takes about 30 minutes to 1 hour of riding at 80 mph to create the problem! BTW- I had the voltmeter connected to the battery. It's a fairly big job disconnecting the cam sensor plug and looking at the wires as they are all jammed together wih the speedo sensor, alternator wires and neutral wire almost under the starter! Looks like its unavoidable. | ||
| Bobpaul |
Hootowl, you've given me a good idea. I'm not blowing fuses (yet), but maybe I could put an ammeter in line with the ignition fuse to see if it spikes up or down when the engine miss fires. This will tell me if I have a short or an open circuit. | ||
| Hootowl |
Oh, and the tip of the speedo sensor looked like it had been rubbing on something. Maybe you're getting an intermittent short as the sensor hits the rotating parts? Wild ass guess. | ||
| Sparky |
Bob, I believe the stator output through the regulator goes directly to the battery bypassing the main breaker. It would take an excessive current draw (possibly a short) in an external load like ignition, lights & accessories to pop the breaker. You mentioned the mechanic also found a loose ground wire at the regulator. The following is just a theory, but if the regulator is ungrounded, it may seek a ground through the various loads... which could pop the breaker. Or maybe not. Anyhow double check the integrity of the various ground wires. Go over to the Shock Recall section in the Knowledge Vault and find the Service Bulletin for your bike. There may be a paragraph or two related to grounding the voltage regulator. If so verify that those steps were done. This may not be your problem because if the regulator is not grounded, the charging system fails, the battery discharges & the bike dies. This has happened to others so it doesn't hurt to check. Sparky | ||
| Rick_A |
My S1 is dead. She won't start. The solenoid just clicks when I thumb the starter. Going through the manual it seems it's either the starter, solenoid, or wiring. A visual and physical inspection turned up nothing. I gotta replace a fuse in the Multimeter before I can really find the source of the problem. Mine and the girls' vehicles have died within a week.  | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Rick, Check the easy stuff first. Make sure your battery is good before tearing into things. Never know, may save a bunch of cursing! Brad | ||
| Road_Thing |
Rick_A: Put a new solenoid on it. It's only about $15, and your beer won't have time to warm up while you do it. r-t | ||
| Rick_A |
Well, I've checked all things according to the manual. It's either the solenoid or starter. I don't think it's the solenoid. I tried jumping the solenoid directly...same result...so I went and jumped the starter motor. Nothing but a hot wire. So, if it is the starter I hope it's something I can fix. r-t...you mean my iced tea?  | ||
| Dave |
Rick ... I just had similar probs on mine that I thought was caused by corrosion around the hot terminal on the solenoid. Attempting to get the cable off to clean the corrosion, the electrical lug twisted and shorted the inside of the solenoid. The solenoid rebuild kits runs about $45 and the solenoid fetches about $90 or more. The whole starter/solenoid assembly runs about $200. There's a ground strap on the bottom of the battery tray ... make sure that's clean and tight as well. DAve | ||
| Dave |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/14392.html?1028560251 Pics see my 28 Jul post DAve | ||
| Road_Thing |
Rick_A:  I meant to say "relay"! Maybe I should stick to iced tea... r-t | ||
| Rick_A |
Checked all pertinent wiring, all looked good and clean. All had good continuity. Checked for voltage drops across activated ignition circuits. All less than 1V. I checked the relay. It was good. Took off the starter, did the solenoid test in the manual and all is good there. Disassembled the starter... everything checks out there. Could it be the battery? It tests 12V but barely turns the starter when I hook it to it. This is frustrating. I hate electrical problems. The symptoms are a little contrary to the troubleshooting guide. It is a 6 Y/O battery, but could there be an internal short and still show 12V?...while still powering the lights adequately? I used to be a drinker, but I did not know, nor could I learn, the meaning of moderation. | ||
| Reepicheep |
A charged battery should be closer to 13.8V. If it says 12, it is probably weak. Bill | ||
| Sparky |
Rick_A says, "Could it be the (6 Y/O) battery?" My thoughts: S1 batteries rarely last longer than 3 years due to heat, vibration and self-discharge if not kept float charged. A serviceable battery should show 14V minimum. Load test your battery to determine its health or just spring for Buell's S1 replacement battery kit which has a physically larger battery than stock. Use a Battery Tender if you don't ride it every day, IMO. Sparky 96S1, 98S3, 03FB | ||
| Rick_A |
That must be it then. I've eliminated everything else. When I scrounge the cash I'll be getting the Blast battery conversion. I wish they made kickstart kits for these things...or I had nice hills to coast it down  | ||
| Rick_A |
My starting problem was the battery...the starter spins the engine a lot faster than it did before the stock battery keeled. It's a lot better than when I purchased the bike, too. No clicks! Now that I've got things assembled again...the damn primary chain inspection cover won't come off! I've rounded 2 allen wrenches trying to get one of those screws off. Always something. | ||
| Josh |
Rick: Impact wrench | ||
| Sparky |
I've learned the hard way too. A simple impact driver from Sears that you tap with a hammer is the ticket for most of the socket & Torx screws on the Buell. BTW, a #2 Phillips bit in the impact driver works well to turn a T27 1/4" bit. Glad you got your starting woes fixed. Sparky | ||
| Rick_A |
Thanks guys. I appreciate all the tips. That impact driver sounds like the ticket. For now I got a hardened bit instead of those softer allen wrenches. I'll try tapping it a bit then giving it a go...if that doesn't work I'll go for the impact driver. I'll probably only snug them next time...they're a bitch after they're torqued to spec. I did go crazy on my starting system like a few said not to, but it gives me piece of mind |
