| Author |
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Littledog1
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 10:09 pm: | 
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Are the Firebolt heads an option to upgrade my '98 S-1 (Lightning heads)? Nascar springs, smaller stems, and the higher specific output they must flow better than the Thunderstorm heads, right?
Mickey |
Racerx
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 10:57 pm: |
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They will fit and cost alot of money. The reason they have all thoes fancy "ohhh i want em" things like NASCAR springs yada yada yada is because of the high rev limit on the XB the flow should be the same. There was never any talk about more open area. Where do you live at i have a Guy who does a Stage 3 head job for $400.00 including valves |
Littledog1
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 11:41 pm: |
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Racerx,
Thanks for the offer. I'm in the SF Bay Area and I do have access to some great shops and there is always Nalin. Even with the higher redline the Firebolt would seem to have improved air flow, I was just raising the question to see what oportunity there might be. Looking for improved air flow/performance and a bigger safety and reliability factor at the same time.
Mickey |
Littledog1
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 10:37 pm: |
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Hay Everyone! Back to my original question, (1) Would there be any value using Firebolt heads on my S1, and (2) What problems would there be using the Firebolt heads?
Thank you,
Mickey |
Noface
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 04:05 am: |
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Here's what Doug Coffey of HeadQuarters had to say about the Firebolt heads.
From below what he describes, they should fit fine with some minor machining to mount the carb and breather in the "more traditional" location.
Are they optimum? That's for you to decide :-)
Jody S.
From: "hqhamster"
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:59 am
Subject: Fire Bolt Heads
Just had a look at these new heads.
1.800" intake
1.575" exhaust
7mm valve stems and single coil conical springs.
2.060" valve stem protrusion. I thought that was weird condidering
everything else associated is just the same as all other Evo, XL and
TC twins. HD does not honor their own stem protrusion specs.
63cc combustion chamber.
The valve seals and spring seats are a new twist. Nice rubber seals
push down into a sheetmetal spring seat.
Nice flat deck 63.4cc bathtub type chamber reminiscent of the 1984
883 chambers.
Very nice factory ports. The best yet.
Valve seats flow nicely into the combustion chamber.
Cylinder bore is 3.498" and wrist pin location is the same as 1200s.
1200 pistons will work for performance mods even though the stroke
reduces the motor to 1000cc.
Same deal as the blast.
The heads do not breath through the air cleaner support bolt holes.
In fact the holes are not even there but the bosses are and could be
machined to accept breather bolts.
Regular valves, guides and springs will work for performance purposes
AND they will install right on the like new spec of 2" stem
protrusion.
After a little massaging these heads would be a much better choice
for XLs than the current bolt on offerings from HD.
I like the new Fire Bolt heads.
Still prefer 883 reworks for 1200s but these make a nice alternative
and would be my first choice for larger than 1200 engines.
Next we will see how they do on the track after revamping and a new
Hindle exhaust system gets bent up.
BTW This new Buell Fire Bolt exhaust system makes working on dressers
look easy.
Doug C. |
Littledog1
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 09:48 am: |
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Doug C.,
thank you, that was just the type of information I was looking for. This board is an amazing resource!
Thanks again,
Mickey |
Rattler
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:05 am: |
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Doug C in his original statement also mentioned that he wasn't sure the "Sportster" style rocker boxes would mount up the same or even work with Firebolt heads.
Anyone have any info on this???
Dale A. |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
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If I remember hearing everything properly, here's what I'd deduce...
Do the Sporty rockerboxes interchange between it and the Blast? If so, I'm FAIRLY certain (emails from a Buell dealership parts guy I trust on this BBS) the Blast interchanges with the XB. One might therefor deduce that the XL rockerbox will interchange with the XB.
I'm not certain, though. Someone please confirm or deny...
-Saro |
Torqd
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 12:26 pm: |
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I have firebolt rockerboxes on my s1w...they work...have fun getting them though. |
M2cyclone00
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 01:24 pm: |
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Saro, from what I've heard you're correct. They will all interchange. Pammy told me a while back that they've put some Blast rocker boxes on several big Buells. I'm planning on doing that next time I need the gaskets replaced.
Dave |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 08:34 pm: |
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You know I like the little 'Bolt, not even ridden one yet, but there's something about its 'high tech-ness' that appeals to me, yet the devil in me sez junk the F.I for all its 'high tech-ness' and shove a big down draught carb on the sucker !
I think some bikes look great without fuel tanks on them. Our S1's look superb when you can see all the frame tubes when the tank is removed. Wouldn't an S1 look cool with Firebolt heads and a big down draught poking right out there ? Big tapered K&N to complete the job ? Awesome ! Don't ask me where I'd stick an alternative fuel tank, but it would suit a drag strip ride.
The Firebolt though, well the fuel tank is already sorted ain't it, so junking the F.I could be an option, but what it would look like with a down draught sticking up, I wouldn't have a clue. I've not studied one long enough yet to really see its true 'hotrod' potential ' so I'm looking forward to see how 'Bolters' will modify their Bolts in times to come. I can see how it would be possible to run one in some weird 'skeletal' form, which is a part of 'hotrodding' I suppose. Anyways, the S1 is the true 'hotrod' of all motorcycles sez I, and I don't have a down draught carb laying around 
Rocket |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 01:01 pm: |
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Rocketsean:
I am pretty sure the head intake ports are in the same location so you can probably use just the manifold and achieve the results you seek. With a shoter stroke in the XB though, the heads might be lower in the "V" and the manifold will not fit. You will also need to find some sort of downdraft carb to use.
Zippers in Maryland makes a dual intake head set that can accept a vertical manifold topped with a Webber or Delorto. You will have to cut and relocate the cross tube atop the frame.
I dream of such a mod using a 4 x 3.5 S&S lower end... |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 01:43 pm: |
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RacerX, Dueller, Rempss, All,
The Stage-3 headwork debate has been moved to its own topic, "Bargain Rate Stage-3 Headwork" on the Quick Board. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:41 pm: |
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Jose, the cyls on the XB are reportedly the same height as the 1200's. At least that's what I've been told, I've yet to tear into one of the buggers. They certainly are on the Blast, it even says "1200" in the corner of a Blast's cylinder.
Also, the piston pin is in the same location (a Blast literally uses a Thunderstorm piston). They made the rod longer to compensate for the shorter stroke. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 05:38 pm: |
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Jose, thanks but I was just chatting. I'd be happy to have mine up and running with an 883 in it right now 
Rocket |
Rattler
| | Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 12:52 pm: |
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Thats interesting that the XB rockers will bolt right up to a Sportster type engine! Are their any mods required...a little dremeling or die grinding for clearance issues with the rocker arms, etc. Of course I understand higher lift cams may require additional clearance on the rocker box tops.
PS, any of you seen the rumors from the latest IronWorks mag about the Sportster getting the 1200 cc version of the XB9 engine in 2004? I know a lot of you Buellers have been hoping for one on a Buell yet. I'm just a messenger here about this, I have no facts whatsoever to substantiate what Ironworks is printing.
Dale A. |
Dynodave
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 01:02 am: |
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In 2001, Erik and I were chatting beside a Tilley's race bike and I just happened to mention to Erik that the heads were likely protos from the new model, perhaps?? The ports were centrally located and the nose breathers were not present on those heads. Anyway, those bikes had dual CV45's plumbed to the intake ports with steel tubing.
Most of the builders like the race potential of the XB heads for the bigger motors; they have more fins for cooler running.
Oh, and the '04 Sportie motor is NOT the Buell engine...It shares a lot of parts, but the mounting is way different. |
Loki
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:24 pm: |
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Working on breaking in the S1 and XB hybrid. I have some tuning issues to resolve, but. The butt dyno says it is one h**l of an improvement.
Dyno time is in the deck of cards to get the carb just right. |
Loki
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 05:11 pm: |
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The first real ride report for the S1x.
Still trying to sort out a pop off at 1/4 throttle. Occurs right between 2500 and 3K rpm. Nothing drastic just real annoying.
Overall response is likeable. Purrs at idle and seems extra smooth at idle. Unlike it was at birth up to now. Having plugged a temp sensor into the oil bag. It was the low 70s outside today. Oil temp only briefly climbed above 180. It looks like the XB heads and cylinders are capable of shedding alot more heat. Makes one wonder....so the oil cooler is back burnered for the time being.
More to follow....need to find a dyno for a baseline. |
Tripper
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 07:43 pm: |
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Loki, Be sure the dyno has an oxygen sniffer and use it to dial in your mixture. That pop will disappear once you get that right.
Picture?
Investment? |
Loki
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 08:04 pm: |
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The problem has become finding a dyno in the near local area.
Seems the local HD shop has one and no clue on how to use it.
Maybe I ought to learn how to work one and go to work for them. |
Tripper
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:58 am: |
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Trailer it to KC, you can stay here. |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 01:10 pm: |
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This place has a pretty good layman's guide to carb tuning:
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/carbadjust.htm
I gained 7 hp on my bike seat of the pants. On the dyno the A/F curve was about as flat and smooth as can be. I also gained 5 ft-lbs of torque. The old school methods work! |
Loki
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 01:13 pm: |
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Tripper,
Now that I am back home....
Investment? Out of pocket was just shy of $500. The big expense went to Aaron via Al for the new front mount. I picked up my XB heads and cyls from ebay for a tad over $400. Sold the S1 heads and cyls the same way for $350. I would call it a wash for those parts. I reused the stock S1 flat-top pistons and re-ringed them. Then add in gaskets and misc hardware. Did some preventative stuff like all new oil lines and repaired the leaky oil bag.
Got lucky with the heads/cyls as far as cost goes.
Should be able to take some pics this weekend.
You just might see me after I get the Mikuni.
Took it out for a short ride yesterday. It is a whole new bike with those changes. |
Tripper
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 06:35 pm: |
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Man you are THRIFTY. That's a good investment.
We got a good dyno operator here and some tuning knowledge around. Bring a handfull of jets and let's hammer her. |
Loki
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 12:58 am: |
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Just got lucky on scoring the XB stuff. Really surprised me when I did win the two seperate auctions. I was sitting on the parts for about 9 months. They kept staring at me in the living room.
So far I am really happy with the outcome. Just feels like a lot more power to play with. I think adding a mikuni will be it for awhile.
I will see what happens around april time frame. I should be on days for the spring and summer. Look at makin a trip up your way.
I can blast up 40/540/71 and be there in short order. |
Aaomy
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 07:51 pm: |
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hey loki and any one who can help. i am putting xb heads on my s2 and want to know.1 what carb jetting are you currently running , slow and main. 2 if anyone know the current xb 12 timing curves and performance curves that would greatly help. 3 wanted to use my current flat top pistons and was wondering if the valve pockets were ok for the new xb valves or would i have to enlarge the pockets for the larger valves? 4 if anyone has wired a separate circuit into the temp sensor on the rear head, was thinking of wiring in a relay with a fan and dash lamp, 5 at what temp dose it switch, and is it normally open or closed? thanks to anyone who can help with these questions. aaron |
Loki
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 12:52 am: |
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1) planning on dumping the CV for a Mikuni
2) running the race ignition module for the S1
3) your present flat tops will be no problem
4) would not worry about a fan. The extra fin area on the Xb heads (and cyls for me) shed some incredible amounts of heat
5) I had the front head machined to match the rear for a temp sensor. Only to eventually add a dual head temp indicator.
pm me for some side chatter on this project. |
Loki
| | Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:03 pm: |
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Okay
Now for the hot weather report.
Wow! even on a blast furnace type of day. The XB heads/cyls in a tuber are awesome. Oil temp at the bag outlet hit 190 and no much more. Open the oil cooler and it drops about 10. Why so little? It is mounted on the side rail with no direct airflow through it. Believe me though, it radiates some heat. No I can toast both my inner thighs. |