| Author |
Message |
    
Indy_bueller
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 10:08 am: | 
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Al, THATS AWSOME! Sign me up for that. A couple questions though......after you get the ECM programmed, will it automatically adjust to keep the a/f ratios the same regardless of the weather conditions? Or will you have to load new maps depending on air temp, etc? How much will the software and the hardware key cost respectively? Will I need to install an O2 sensor on my front pipe as well?
Pete |
Charlieboy6649
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 11:19 pm: |
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Tick tock tick tock. Patiently waiting... Can't wait. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:03 am: |
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Pete,
It doesn't change the algorithms at all, just the look-up tables. So i'm guessing the system will compensate for temperature as good as the regular and race ECMs do. But remember, I haven't run a bike on it yet, so I can't say for sure.
The O2 input will be the same O2 input as the stock or race ECM uses, since it still is just a stock or race ECM, just with a different map. I'm only putting a bung on both pipes so that I can run my wideband O2 sensor system on each pipe to confirm how well it works. Most folks shouldn't have to do anything like that.
I'm typing this at home without my notes, and the final price may change, but I think it's going to be $249 for the key, $99 for the tuning SW + Cable.
Al |
Opto
| | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 01:49 am: |
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Al,
One thing that's not very clear on the website, with the $249 key that becomes locked to your own individual ecm, can you burn the ecm more than once or is a new key required if, for example, you want to tune in a new pipe 6 months down the track? Also, is there any access to any warm-up enrichments?
$350 is a very fair price considering the alternatives...I think a wideband O2 would be a neccessity for DIY'ers, unless they dyno tune it. Thanks for the testing and feedback, many have waited for so long for something like this.
Ian. |
Mbsween
| | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
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Al,
Cool product! Sounds like the ultimate in FI fun! Good luck with the debugging. I'm looking forward to buying one of these (assuming it works with the tuber ECM).
One question, I'm guessing the OEM race/stock ECM are the same unit with different software, do you know if thats correct?
Matt |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 01:25 pm: |
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I've completed a bunch of testing and tuning using the Direct Link tool. It works. There are still some bugs to be worked out of the SW, and there are some changes that I hope to get made in the user friendliness area, but it does what it is supposed to do. I took my Uly into the Dyno making 93HP with lean spots, emerged from the dyno room with a 99HP bike with nice torque and fuel curves, great driveability, and an AFV that sits at 100 after learning.
It isn't on the web site yet, and I won't put it there until a couple bugs are worked out. I'll still sell them in the meantime, but only after chatting with the customer about it first. If anyone thinks they are going to go in a map their ECM without the benefit of a wideband 02 meter at minimum, and preferably a dynojet250, well, get that notion out of your head right now. All you'll really do is screw up your bike.
At this point, the tuber and XB12 stock ECMs aren't a go. We're working on those too, stay tuned.
See here |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 01:30 pm: |
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Oh yea, this thread started as an exhaust system thread, and then started talking about the Micron.
The Micron is nice. Fit is excellent, sound is wonderful. Nice a bassy down low, nice growl on top. Loud, but not quite as loud as a D&D. The slip on that it is closest to is the currently discontinued Latus.
I'm pretty confident that a tuned micron system will beat any slip on system.
Al |
Giu
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 04:28 am: |
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Hi Al,me and 3 friends of mine are waiting for some news on Direct Link.What's up?
I have to buy a new slip on/complete system and wish something already tested from you,so I could be sure it'll fit perfect with DL map.
What do you suggest about that?
Thank you |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 09:33 am: |
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I just started testing the new beta release this week. But the real acid test is the testing that Terry will do with it once I send it to him. Prognosis is good so far, I am communicating now with a stock XB12ECM and have downloaded the map. I'm in the process now of comparing the stock and Race ECM maps to see if it is determinable whether the fueling relative to the servo event on a stock ECM is table based or algorithmically based. If table based, then I'm confident that manipulating a stock ECM would be the way to go on 12's. However, if algorithmically based, then it may end up requiring 12 owners to start with a race ECM prior to tuning, an additional expense. Don't know yet, still analyzing the data. |
Giu
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 09:49 am: |
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It sounds great,Al.Your work is precious for many of us.Hope to have positive feedback ASAP.
Any advice for exhaust?
P.S. I've sent an e-mail to KL supply but,unfortunally,no answer.Are it closed?
Thank you |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 09:14 pm: |
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Giu,
Not sure what to tell you about exhausts, not sure what you have access to over there. The Micron is sure looking fine to me with the fueling taken care of. I ship exhausts to Europe all the time, typically costs between $85-100 to do so, but it sounded from your other mail that you were looking to source locally.
Can't tell you anything about K&L Supply. They are one of Technoresearch's other retailers, I know nothing about them other than their generic Directlink Video on the Technoresearch site.
Al |
Giu
| | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 03:46 am: |
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Al,still sorry.I thought you were from K&L Supply!!
Please,what is your retail?
And what are the best exhaust in your opinion?
If there's no way to get it here I'll order it over there.No problem.
Yes,Micron serpent race is just one the option but I really like Jardine sound and I'm pretty confident that the new Drummer SS would make the job.No idea about D & D.
For item shipping to Italy retailers use to ask for about US $70. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 10:25 am: |
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Giu,
I'm American Sport Bike (well, my wife Joanne and I are A.S.B). That's why all that dyno test work is posted in the A.S.B sponsor section here on Badweb.
"Best" is always a difficult answer. Each pipe has its strengths and weaknesses, and personal preferences and budget constraints can make any one of them the "best" for you. For the slip-ons, I like the sound and torque curve shape of the D&D,and it's what I run on the shop XB9S. The Buell race pipe is a bit wiffy sounding to me, but it is well built and is what the race ECM is tuned for out of the box. Nothing wrong with a Jardine if you're looking for a top end emphasis pipe and don't mind repacking now and again, but it isn't my cup of tea personally as I really don't spend a lot of time near red line. I liked the Latus when it was available, and hope to make it available again soon, built better than ever. It has a nice sound and makes decent power everywhere. I don't have personal experiences with the Drummers or Special Ops pipes, but you'll find plenty here that like those.
I think the Micron is now the best thing running out there for Buells at this time, however. Seems to be very well built, sound is the best out there to my ears, and the top end power and torque curve shape is tough to beat.
But there are pipes I've never tried, and you have some available in Europe that we don't have easy access to here.
Shipping costs are obviously dependent on size and weight, and mufflers are large and heavy. We use USPS Global Express mail for most of our international shipments, as we have found them to be the least expensive. The big carriers (UPS, DHL, etc.) tend to have higher costs and they add exorbitant customs brokerage fees onto many items. It would be a lot easier for us to use those carriers, as they pick up right at our door. To use USPS, we have to drive it to the PO, stand in lines, etc. But we do that to save our customers some money, and we don't charge for it. The lightest smallest muffler we sell (the Jardine) still costs more than $70 to ship to Italy.
Al |
Giu
| | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
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Thank you Al for your kindness.
I'll wait for your final response on DL and then I'll place the complete order regarding my xb12. |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 01:27 pm: |
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Hi you guys I am doing some of the dyno work for Al and have a little experience with pipe performance. After more than a few conversations with Brian Nallin at Rev Performance and a couple of 130+ HP race bikes. It seems like these exhaust systems are all about balance and it's not quite as easy as some profess. The engine needs to see a balance between the intake track, head flow and then exhaust pulse. An easy way to look at it is "You can't suck in more than you can blow out and you can't blow out more than you can suck in." So as we open up the intake (American Sport Bike Open Airbox Kit) that changes the intake track and works best with a full exhaust system. All most all of the high performance full systems have stepped header pipes, starting off small and getting larger. The Micron system is hydro-formed and changes dia as well as maintaining the correct flow rate in the bends. The slip on systems use the stock headers which are the same dia from the head to the muffler and they work well where you have maintained everything close to stock. So slip-ons work well within their design and save a few bucks. But you can't beat a well designed system that's designed to balance the needs of high flow rate in the intake and exhaust.
The other thing we have needed for some time is a fuel/timing controller so we could tune to keep good A/F Ratios as we improve the volumetric efficiency. So far it looks like Direct Link will allow us to do that by modifying the Buell ECM . My ULY goes on the dyno next week for the next series of testing and MAP development. Wish us all well with this project, becuse when we get it right everybody will win. . ... Hope You All Have a Happy New Year Terry.
(Message edited by buelldyno_guy on December 30, 2005) |
Giu
| | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 04:37 am: |
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Buell_dyno,I was thinking full system is better than just muffler but had no idea when.Now it's OK.
Micron serpent race is a good product at an affordable price (when you look at many aftermarket mufflers).
To me,for minimum upgrade the performance you absolutely need of new pipe,air filter and something,as you stated,that control A/F ratios.
That's just the first step.
One more.
How about a totally opened (no air filter and no air box under the cover) in take air?Do you think this one will work in a xb12 combined with a good exhaust system and the DL?
Can you imagine what kind of gain it would have?
Thank you |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:21 pm: |
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It will all still come down to intake track and exhaust balance. On our AFM F4 race bike we use Hal's C/F intake duct and system and no A/C. But we are using a 53mm TB and have two different exhaust systems we are working on. AFM race bikes need to stay under 101 db so our system is high flow but has a quiet can. The stock black rubber air horn/stack is only 49mm, so we have developed a 53mm stack using a Hilborne stack and cutting it down. Our next task is to match the intake wave length in 1/4 inch steps to the exhaust pulse as we develop the new Flow Master muffler for our Rinehart pipe. ... So again just removing the filter has more down sides that ups, unless you are fine tuning a balanced system. ... Sorry about all the Techno Junk and hope it helps. ... Terry |
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