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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Ergonomics/Controls - Seats, Pegs, Bars, Grips, Levers, Pedals » Archive through July 09, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Ezblast
Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

MY bad 30mm is closer to 1&1/4(pesky numbers - a little over) still I enjoy this set also! So very adjustable - Blasting on the darkside!
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Bomber
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake . . . have you pics of your M2 with these bars mounted? My y2k Ma Duece has the fat tank, which limits the bar choice dramatically . . . . .these look like they might be a good option
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Bomber,
Yes, I posted pics just over a year ago. Should be in the archives above. Do a keyword search for "Telefix" in the "Knowledge Vault" and you'll find them quickly.
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Bomber
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

thanks, Blake . . . . .30 second search, just as you said . . . .. .

I don't think they'll fit my fat-tanked Duece . . .ah well, the search continues . . . .I have high hopes for the folks Loki has been trying manfully to deal with . . . . .but it seems they are less organized than one would wish

any motion on that front, mischeivious one?
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Just realized, I don't see any of the Telefix bars that will fit the upside down fork diameter. Bummer!
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H_Man
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Uhhh... Blake... I'm a bear of little brain. Does your last post mean that the Telefix bars now offered by Spec 2 won't fit my 2000 M2?

H-man
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Bigfanof6
Posted on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I was just reading through the postings here and noticed the chat about the new Buell grips. I installed a set quite a while back and I have had no problems with them at all on my 01 M2. Should I be expecting my throttle to stick one of these days?
Chris
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99buellx1bs
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


Through some cruel genetic defect it is impossible for me to twist the throttle on my '99 X1 from full close to WOT without releasing my grip. It is so limiting that I can't even get enough twist to do a throttle only wheelie.

Please tell me that there is a mechanical cure for my terribly cruel physical defect. It was rather embarrasing being outrun by that punk on his new CBR-600.
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Pilk
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


Quote:

It was rather embarrasing being outrun by that punk on his new CBR-600.



Being able to twist the throttle wont fix that problem. Cure:Buy a bigger dremmel tool.

Pilk
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Lake_Bueller
Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Too bad Corbin seats rule because there customer service SUCKS

I recently purchased a used Corbin Gunfighter & Lady for my '98 Buell S3T. The seat is clearly marked as a Gunfighter & Lady on the bottom of the seat. However, there isn't any place to mount the backrest (missing the little "hole" in the rear of the seat). I contacted Corbin to see if this was normal. They told me that all GF&L seats are made to accomadate the backrest. I told them that mine was not. This is where I get pissed!!!

I ask if mine can be returned and converted to accomodate a backrest (at MY cost). Their answer to me....BUY A NEW SEAT!!!!! I know that they owe me nothing because I wasn't the orignal owner. However, with the prices they charge, I'd expect better service.

Time to quit venting.

Mennis
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Jmartz
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

LB:

My buddy has an S1 seat whose base was left with a sharp edge that fimally eat through the covering. Corbin asked for $200 minus shipping and handling to redo it. Not much more for a new one.

Their stuff is well built but IMHO unecessarily heavy.
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Jrh
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Jmartz
you sure are right about Corbin,at least with the S1 seat i got from them.It must weigh 2-3 times what the Buell seat does,the seat pan looks like someone used it for target practice with a BB gun,i actually thought it was used,but it came with stickers on the underside so i guess its new.It looks fine,even nice bolted on the bike. For $300,I'm really disappointed in its weight+its foam is way too firm,i'd like to sell it but it wouldn't be right to unload it on anybody.
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Rick_A
Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 12:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

99buellx1bs...I hate having to seriously contort my once-fractured wrist myself to get to speed...Storz has a quarter-turn throttle. I'm thinkin' about it...
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Bigfanof6
Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hmmm.
Maybe a faster bike would help. Then you wouldn't need to ride all over the place with the throttle WFO.
Just a thought.
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Rick_A
Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hmmm...no. I just like to accelerate. I beat on every vehicle the same way (except for the slooow work vehicles). 130 is faster than I care to go on public roads.
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Rickie
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Aaron,

I did not realize that the breaking of the pivot boss from the side plate was a prevalent problem for S2's. I have no experience with that, or knowledge of such occurrences, however you are absolutely right in the fact that this fix does not address the lean angle issue. What it does do is remedy the problem of positively locking of the side stand using the existing hardware.

As you know, by bending the side stand arm down you are reducing the applied leverage by weight cantilevered over the pivot point resulting in less stress on the pivot boss. In addition, by bending it forward at the same time you are affording a passive locking of the side stand by virtue of over centering the weight bias on the pivot point (like so many of the metric bikes). What you still do not have is the reassuring positive locking side stand that you originally had (or so you thought). So, if the bike is bumped forward you can still result in the same thousand dollars of damage.

Perhaps the ultimate solution is to use both the Buell update and your reconfiguration of the side stand arm.

Ultimately the course of action is up to the owner and of no consequence to me. I only hope that someone does not become bitterly disappointed from applying a short-term or conditional solution to a problem. What I have seen is people purchase the exact same side plate that failed them at a hefty price just to have the same result.

Here is a little more descriptive pic of the Buell solution.

The Buell solution


Mike J. and Jason,

On the S2 side stand bumper; the bumper is attached with a machine screw (10/32?) through the barely visible slit in the dome of the bumper. If I remember correctly, the OEM bumper was not reinforced with a washer, so the screw would eventually push through the base. This would allow it to "spit" from the screw, or through surface tension with the side stand arm, take a leap when the arm is extended.

The solution is to acquire a .750 diameter by .350 tall bumper from the local hardware store. They are available with an imbedded or bonded #10 washer. If you install it and the side stand arm is to close to the swing arm or after a period of time the bumper relaxes, you can shim it. Just install another washer behind the bumper.
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Mikej
Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Henrik posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 12:07 pm .
----------------------------------------
Rickie; thanks for the additional explanation of the S2 kick-stand lock fix. I'll dive in deeper and see what I've got in mine.

About the lean angle; what would you all think of extending the kick-stand an inch or two? Cut - insert pipe - weld - paint/powder coat.

Henrik
=========================================
Henrik,
I've wondered about that as well, only I was thinking of a bootstrap sort of thing. Clamps around the existing leg and can then be positioned as wanted. You could also add some variations like a bigfoot(tm) for soft ground, spikefoot(tm) for the city life, knucklefoot(tm) for the H.O.G. ralleys, and so forth. Of course there would also be a Pegasus-foot but someone else already has the (tm) for that one. Imagine little Pegusus's stamped into soft asphault around the world.
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Bomber
Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Loki

any word on your custom bars? the elves coulda chewed em outa billet by now, I'm thinkin
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Jsunstar
Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

thanks for the sidestand info. i called around and looked for such a rubber piece but to no avail. i called freedom harley in akron. OH and they are sending me 2 replacement ones. im gonna reinforce it some though. if anyone needs one, ill send it to you for $5 shipped. (cost).
later
Jason
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Aaron
Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 09:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My S2 kickstand mod, which took about an hour to do, with a torch and a hammer and a bench vise ...

down
No real magic here, it's bent down and forward. When the bike leans over, the stand is pushed forward, taking pressure off the lock that Rickie's solution reinforces.


up
The key to this mod is to come up with a bend that not only works when down, but works when up, i.e. does not hit the rotor or swingarm or drag during aggressive cornering. Instead of sticking it over the swingarm like the stocker, I tuck it in like this. This required some trimming of the little bumper on the kickstand boss to get it to tuck in right.

up again
Here's another view of the up position.

lean angle
Here's a shot showing the lean angle, the S1 is included for comparison. About the same.

I did this a couple years ago when the bike was new. It's worked fine. There are a couple of minor downsides, however. One, people who are unfamiliar with the bike have a hard time locating the stand. I've developed a technique, I can do it easily without looking, but when I let someone else ride the bike they invariably have to look to figure out where to place their boot heel. Second, the bike has to be leaned slightly to the right while the stand is raised or lowered. It's not a problem when sitting on it, but if you're standing next to the bike it feels kinda weird to have to lean it away from yourself a little bit.
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Rickie
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 12:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Aaron,

This may be a long dissertation about something minor to most, but thought I would continue if for no other reason than to sharpen my keyboarding skills.

If I understand you, I can agree conditionally in that the weight and leverage applied to the side stand due to lean angle contributes to the root problem. I do no agree that that is the root problem. The lock is actually damaged in forces applied to disengage it from the locked position as opposed to engaging or static engagement.

The root of the problem is not wear in the pivot area or the locking relief of the side stand plates. At least not directly due to weight applied, since the weight is applied when the sidestand is static, in the extended position. Even if it is not fully extended before weight is applied and then the bike is rolled into the relief. This only rounds the top of the transition wall from the horizontal pivot bed to the vertical locking wall. I actually do this to season a new lock; it takes the notch-e-ness (a new expression) out of the action.

To undermine the integrity of the lock relief, the vertical wall is usually removed from the base of the relief up to the pivot bed. This is caused by forcing the bike forward with enough weight on the side stand to engage the lock relief. This action compounded by the leverage of the steel arm and friction of that flat footpad (sunken in the asphalt) overstresses the softer cast aluminum.

Everyone I had talked to and/or made repairs for that would admit it (and there are those that won't) has actually torn out the lock by engaging the starter with the bike in gear on the side stand. Most relayed the situation as a vicious cycle. The wonk-e-ness of the side stand angle coupled with the play magnified by the length did not inspire confidence. So, parking in gear solved this. Then without the neutral safety lock out, launched the bike when you forgot it was in gear and hit the starter. If you were lucky your bike did not start and you caught it before it hit the pavement, but the lock was trash. Now you HAD to make "accommodations" to park or cough up the $250 for a new plate.

So in the end I agree that the modification you made reduces the pressure applied to plant the footpad of the stand, which in turn may allow the foot to slide and resist tearing out the lock. However without the pin upgrade installed, and subjected to the starter button "test", I am sure your lock would be compromised.

A side bar to this whole thing is after tearing the lock out of two of these plates myself, and YES I did use the starter to help me, I decided to idiot proof the system. I installed a relay under the dash to arm the starter button when the neutral indicator switch was closed.

I think we just stumbled onto the ultimate solution (for the S2) with the combination of Aaron's angle alterations, Buell's reinforcement pin, and my safety relay.
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Aaron
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rickie, you're missing the point. With this kickstand mod, the lock becomes irrelevant.

My M2 doesn't have a lock. Ditto my S1, RS, RR, and Blast. A kickstand that sticks forward doesn't need one.

When you knock any of these bikes forward while they're on the stand, the stand doesn't automatically fold up, unless you bump them pretty hard. Why? Because to do so, the bike has to be levered more upright. It's just not a problem.

The S2 is now the same way, only more so. Because not only would it have to lever the bike more upright, it literally has to lean it to the right before that sidestand can fold up. The bike would literally fall over to the right before the kickstand would fold up.

So really what we're talking about here is two different ways to address the issue. Yours addresses one of the weaknesses in the current design and tries to make the current design work. Mine changes the design such that the weakness is irrelevant, as well as addressing the issue of leaning too far.

But all this stuff about how my approach will still allow it to fall over if bumped and will still allow the lock to wear is just nonsense. Like the other Buells, it doesn't rely on a lock. You can take it completely out of there and it wouldn't matter at all.
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Rickie
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Aaron,

I do not see where I am missing the point. I believe I did acknowledge that your mod was just like a metric bike, which is like all subsequent Buell's. I also implied that the later was armed with safety switches to help insure the bike was manned before started. Which I believe to be required of OEM bikes without locking side stands. In addition, I do understand that your mod does not rely on the lock whether it is intact or not. I also believe most others understand it, if not initially I am sure they do by now.

As with any adaptations, it is a matter of choices, and with all choices there are virtues and shortcomings. I personally have no stock in what choice any individual makes on this, nor is it an issue with me.

As a point of clarification that I have stated before, THIS IS NOT MY MODIFICATION! This is an update of Buell's to address the problem (BTW, I think they dodged a recall bullet on this one). Since I have several examples of the parts lying around, I merely took the time to provide the information for consideration.

Now there is the probable root of the problem. I just have to much junk lying around…………..

By the way I saw your unedited post and I have never hit the starter on MY bikes while parked in gear either. However, while on loan I did have one of my locks disabled (wear?) by a friend, and that was not "nonsense".

Respectfully acknowledging that this horse has been to pulp and going to the junk pile.

Rickie
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Aaron
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"What you still do not have is the reassuring positive locking side stand that you originally had (or so you thought)."

That statement indicates a lack of understanding, as did the dissertation on how the lock will wear anyway. Hence my explanation of how irrelevant those things are.

"I do understand that your mod does not rely on the lock whether it is intact or not."

Glad to see you now understand!

Look, I could give a rat's ass whether someone chooses to do either one or both or neither of these things. But your statements clearly indicated a lack of understanding of my fix, and I was simply correcting that. If you now understand, that's great.
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Rickie
Posted on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Just logged on and saw your response…WOW! That was a pretty selective and pathetic attempt to turn around what I did acknowledge, when it was done, and what it was about. As usual!
Your response was worthy of the most polished politician attempting to discredit his opponent with half truths.

Did anyone else pick up on that! I am confident there are those that do understand what just transpired the dynamics in play here. As humorous as I find this, I do not have the time or inclination to invest in it.

I could give a rat's ass either………………
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Aaron
Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 09:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oh for crying out loud, Rickie, when you choose to come to this board and discuss things, you're going to find people with different points of view who disagree with you. If you're going to get all bent out of shape and start lobbing insults when that happens, perhaps you should reconsider your participation here. Disagreements happen.

We don't agree on the effectiveness of this fix. Get over it!
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Jdbuellx1
Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

YEEEHAAAW
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Jim_Sb
Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 06:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Howdy,

I have both sets of bars for my S2 (regular and touring). But they are both for 1" controls....

Due to a permanently broken right wrist I would like to make the switch to 7/8" bars and hand controls. I've checked numerous web sites (and Badweb archives) and can't seem to find any 7/8" clip-ons for the S2. I would prefer to keep the stock or touring height and pull back - I really only care about going to a 7/8" bar for the throttle to ease my pain while riding.

Anyone know of any?

TIA.

Jim in Santa Barbara
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Henrik
Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 08:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Jim: Woodcraft (and many other good folks) make clip-on bars for pretty much any bike. They are however all mounted directly to the fork tubes and have no rise/pull-back built in. So you'd end up with quite a bit more weight on your hands/wrists. I like Woodcrafts because the clamps are 2-piece: makes it much easier to install/replace/adjust.

Now if you want to get creative/adventurous, Helibars make a sort of Z-shaped bars - I believe for a Suzuki of sorts. Together that set-up might get you both 7/8" bars and a reasonable riding position.

Henrik
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Jim_Sb
Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thank you, Henrik.

With my "bum" wrist weight on the wrists is a bad, bad thing.

I'll look into the exact measurements and contact Heli-bars.

Jim in Santa Barbara
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