| Author | Message | ||
     Jmartz |
Ez: I've been asking the same ? for a while but the lack of postings would seem to indicate that few Buellers if any are using this carb. | ||
| Sarodude |
I think Lsr_bbs (Neil) is using the CV44. You out there, Neil? -Saro | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Jmartz, Didn't we already go through this??? The 44 uses different needles than the 40 (not only in length but in profile). Go back to the stock needle, no shims. Needle profile has very *little* to do w/ too rich/too lean (in and of itself)...it's for fine tuning the transition from circuits (over simplified). I'll dig them up if need be, bu there is very little difference between the k, l, and m CV44 needles; surely nothing that would cause an overly rich condition. FWIW #2, w/o modified heads, a CV44 is too much carb (IMNSHO) and causes some low rpm bucking (I think due to loss of intake velocity due to the larger opening???) - but who really drives around at 2,000 rpm. FWIW #3, tuning these things (especially w/o a dyno) is not simple and you can easily create more problems than you'll fix. I ended up running much larger jets than I though I would, but still get great mpg (high 50's to low 60mph), clean burning plugs, easy starting, smooth running. IIRC, I'm running a 50 slow; 205 (maybe a 200) main and the stock needle and spring, no shims (I'm 70' above sea level outside of Sav, Ga). Jmartz, I'd be happy to loan you my 44 tuners kit so that you could then just order what you need. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Jmartz |
Neil: Since we last communicated I have not attempted any repairs on the mild mid range hesitations. I rode the bike today and this current set up seems to suit it. No more bucks at 3000 rpm. Jose PS Thanks for your offer and advice. | ||
| X1glider |
Does anyone know much about gasoline? I noticed that the octane ratings vary considerably in different parts of the US. Premium in Houston is typically 93-94. In Wyoming and Montana it is typically 85-87! Regular drops down to 80-81 in parts. I used the highest available with no problems though. Does the change in altitude also change the requirements for octane ratings? The HOG got great mileage from Houston to Yellowstone (33-39 mpg) and drivability and for the most part, performance, seemed to be equal to that at sea level. I usually get no better than 35 mpg in Houston (maybe because traffic makes me drive differently). I did run out of steam at 120 mph, just couldn't breathe anymore (I think the cam is to blame here). The highest I went was 8300 ft which was at the continental divide sign in Yellowstone. 6000-7500 ft was typical throughout the week. The CV did what it was designed to do very well even down to 30 deg F and at a wide range of altitudes. I did have problems in the 20 deg F range. Damn engine would not warm up properly and stay warm. It died every time I let it idle at a stop light. It wanted to idle at 600 instead of 1000 like normal. FI would have prevented this. Perhaps the air fuel mix couldn't vaporize quick enough? What do all of you who live in the polar regions do to keep your bikes running properly? Not that I need to worry about it in Houston, just FMI. Educate me. | ||
| Sarodude |
X1Glider- Just out of curiousity, what oil are you running in that hog? -Saro | ||
| X1glider |
Saro - I still use dino oil. Straight 60 in our 100+ deg F days. Straight 50 in 80+ deg F days. 15W50 the rest of the year. I used a 10W40 for the trip anticipating the cold weather. 5W30 would have been better probably, but wouldn't have fared well back in Texas. I have no brand loyalty for the straight weights but use Mobil1 for the 15W50. The 10W40 I used this trip was Quaker state. I can't say I've noticed a difference in different brands of the same weight. My used oil has always looked the same and seemed to operate the same. Strictly determined by my buut-o-meter and eye-o-meter. | ||
| Sarodude |
Here's why I was asking... In anticipation of warm weather and desert crossings, I changed our FXD's oil to straight 50. I noticed some difficulty cranking the thing over. I also noticed on cooler nights that it took a few MINUTES for the idle to stabilize. I was wondering if you too were running straight 50 or 60 and the motor just had problems squeezing the cold, thick stuff. Well, MY cranking problem at least was due to a charging system problem. Hint: When push starting a 600+ pound bike, make a friend QUICKLY. -Saro (or SOREo) | ||
| Blake |
X1G, There are differing octane rating schemes, but I think all US filling stations report the same (R+M)/2 rating which is actually an average of the two (R is for "research" and M is for... hell I can't remember what "M" stands for) rating methods. At higher altitudes an engine requires significantly less octane rating in its fuel. The thinner air with less oxygen basically lowers the absolute compression of your engine, thus acting to prevent detonation and/or pre-ignition. Ask Aaron what his "actual" RWHP numbers are for his bikes when run in typical atmospheric pressures at mile high plus altitudes, and compare them to the factored results he posts. The ratio of the two numbers (actual/factored) indicates how much less air/fuel his engine is able to injest on each intake stroke compared to a similar run at typical sea level atmospheric pressures (for the same ambient temperature/humidity). | ||
| X1glider |
I kinda figured altitude lowering my compression might have something to do with it. Thought there might be more. I hated paying $1.90 for a gallon of 87oct!!! Anyway, I just found some awesome info in a search to what the "M" meant, and answers to my above question. I'll make you find it yourself, Blake, by reading the whole thing. It's an article that will answer questions for many. Page 4 even mentions dropped valve seats for those who have had that problem. Unfortunately pages 1 and 2 are missing. Can't locate them. It's long but full of fascinating info. http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/part3.html http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/part4.html http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/refer.html http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/technic/technic.html | ||
| Aaron |
Matt's awesome 111 SAE hp M2 on a warm day and a mile high elevation makes about the same rwhp as a good running stock S1W does at sea level. (M = motor octane) | ||
| X1glider |
Unfortunately, I can't figure out what that means, not knowing all the different ways to measure power on a dyno. Are you saying Matt's M2 will make about 75-80 rwhp at sea level? I have no idea what an S1W makes. How much of a drop in power is there between 1 mile and sea level? | ||
| Peter |
I think it means that it will make about 75-80rwhp at a mile high elevation on a warm day. The dyno will correct that reading to give you an equivalent at sea level at SAT&P. Eg; 111rwhp. PPiA | ||
| Aaron |
Peter understands, except 75-80rwhp would be a weak S1W. Try upper 80's. | ||
| Josh |
Can I add a subtopic? Paraphrased from a 99 service manual TPS trouble shooting and ECM error codes TPS: = ECM sets a Code 11 if it thinks it’s the TPS TPS test All this can be done with the engine off, but the ignition on: Output signal .5-1.5 at idle (closed throttle) 3.9-4.9 at WOT If you watch the voltmeter through the complete range of throttle travel it should vary slowly and w/o spikes or dips from the measured closed throttle to >4v If there’s a Code 11 and the TPS checks out ok per this, then replace the ECM (per the manual) ECM Error codes 11 TPS 13 O2 14 eng temp 15 IAT 16 bat volt 23 front injector 24 front coil 25 rear coil 32 rear injector 33 fuel pump 35 tach 44 bank angle 52,53,54,55 ECM 56 cam synch Retrieve codes with no scanalyzer jump terminals 1 & 2 on the datalink connector turn ign to on and wait 8 seconds count 6 rapid flashes (3/sec) 2 sec intermission first digit of trouble code 2sec intermission second digit if another code, 2sec pause, then next number. If no code, repeat sequence. If you record a trouble code twice, all have been retrieved. | ||
| Pwest |
what are the stock jets in my 02M2s CV40 carb? I have a 195 main jet to put in but I think that may be to much. I live in ST Louis and dont know the sea level. PAT02M2  | ||
| Blake |
Slow/pilot jet is a 42. You would improve performance by going with a 45. I think the stock main jet is a 195, not sure though. Is your bike running lean at WOT? Why are you looking to change the main jet? | ||
| Pwest |
Im putting on a new air cleaner and know i will have to rejet. Im put in a 45 slow jet and from what ive read a 190 works well but I cant find one. I have a slip on D&D but the rest is stock. PAT02M2.. | ||
| Blake |
I think you have it covered. If you are concerned, have it dyno tested using a wide band A/F sensor. | ||
| Josh |
PWest, Sealevel is anywhere from 300' 600'. Just call your local airport, they know. If you wonder about jetting, call Dyno Dave down at Docs he's dyno'ed my Buell several times and did a good job tuning my Sporty. If you check the SlAB page under WeatherFronts you can catch up with the St Louis Buell Group. Josh | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Pwest, The 02 Cyclone has a 195 main stock. Just did one for a friend. The 00 came witha 200. Way to fat. I'm dropping my 00 from a 195 to a 190 tomorrow. I have the race ham can and a Supertrapp IDS with 15 disc's. After adding the ST, my mileage went to hell. Under 40 per gallon now. I'm still running fat on top (you can feel it by backing off full throttle in 4th or 5th, if it pulls harder backing off slightly, you're probably too rich on the main). YMMV  Brad | ||
| Blake |
I'm in deep shyte if sea level is between 300' and 600'!!  Kilgore's elevation is only 320' or so above sea level.  I hope St. Louis is still above sea level too.  Brad, You have it backwards. A lean running engine will momentarily pull harder as you roll off the throttle slightly. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Blake, Whoops! Sorry about that, I know better! It was late and it had been a long day.... Plus my daughter was asking me a question as I typed. I usually multitask better than that... Thanks for correcting my gaff. Brad | ||
| Jeffl |
So my bike is completely stock. I have a 01 M2 and I just rolled on 5k. I had the service done yesterday and the tech recommended I do a rejet. I asked him what I should switch to and he said just ask the parts counter, they'll know. They didn't. So, I'm asking you guys. If I was to rejet the carb wouldn't I also need to change the air cleaner and get a new pipe as well? Can I do the rejet by itself? Will I notice anything if I do this, performance wise? I live in the Seattle area so I am basically at sea level. Do the recommendations at the top of this topic page hold true for me? Thanks! | ||
| Edv |
I have one for you that I have never run across before, last night I was cleaning my air filter and while I was waiting for it to dry so that I could reoil it I fired the bike up and after it warmed up I just slowly brought the revs up and at a steady rpm between 3500 and 4000 rpm there was a steady stream of gas pissing out of the accelerator pump nozzle and if you let the rpm down to 3000 or less it would quit and anything above that it would start, now I`m not saying opening the throttle fast just gradual enough to raise the engine speed. Has anyone experienced this before and if so what was the cause? ( I think this would be a good one for Aaron) Thanks, Ed | ||
| Blake |
Jeff, If you are comfortable working on a carburetor, changing the low jet is fairly simple. You pretty much need to remove the carburetor though it can be done on the bike if desired. The float bowl needs to come off to get to the slow jet and idle mixture screw. A 45 slow jet and a few turns out on the idle jet will make a HUGE improvement in your low end, even if you leave everything else stock, including air filter. Edv, Are you sure it was the accelerator pump and not the needle jet? If it is indeed the accelerator pump, that is a bad thing. Your check valve may be stuck open. See the following to help in the diagnosis...  Accelerator Pump System See Figure 4-8. The accelerator pump system uses sudden throttle openings (rapid acceleration) to quickly inject fuel into the carburetor venturi; the extra fuel provides for smooth acceleration. This fuel also assists engine operation during cold engine warm-up when the enrichener is turned off pre-maturely. Rapid throttle action, during the first third of throttle travel, causes the accelerator pump rod to depress the accelerator pump diaphragm. This forces fuel in the pump to flow through a fuel passage (which has a “one-way” check valve), through the pump nozzle, and then into the venturi. When the throttle closes, the pump rod lifts up and away from the pump diaphragm; a spring below the diaphragm pushes the diaphragm upward, thereby causing the lower pump cavity to refill with fuel from the float bowl. The check valve prevents backflow of fuel from the pump nozzle/fuel passage during this refilling phase. Also, I can't see your profile other than email address. Did you mistakenly check the "Hide" boxes on your profile entries? | ||
| Edv |
Blake, Thank you for the quick reply, yes it is definitely the accelerator pump nozzle that is spewing the fuel and not the needle jet although at that rpm it is feeding as well even though the butterfly is nearly closed. As far as the check valve is concerned, doesn`t it only act as a oneway valve when the diaphragm well is filling? Thank you, Ed | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jeff... Ditto blake, the carb jetting is VERY easy. I had blocked off most of an afternoon, and about 30 minutes after I started I sat there slack jawed and stunned looking a completely finished and reassembled motorcycle that was running like a clock. The easiest thing to screw up would probably be not getting the boot between the carbs and the cylinders back on tight... but if you pull the tank its easy. I was lazy last time I got in there and did it without pulling the tank, and it was a little trickier to get everything back in place (just pull the tank, its easier). My '00 M2 already had a 200 main in there, which would probably be about right for a forcewinder and an race exhaust. It's probably too rich in every other case, but provides a little margin for running cooler at the cost of a little performance. Like Blake said, if you just change the slow jet and adjust the mixture screw your time will have been well spent, even if you dont mess with the high speed jet. The needle change is also not a huge difference. Aaron posted some charts a while back. The stock needle is not perfect, but it is pretty good. Its a very simple carb on a very simple engine... work and enjoy! | ||
| Jeffl |
Thanks guys, I went the my dealer today and picked up the 45 slow jet. I plan to put it in tomorrow sometime. | ||
| Aaron |
EDV: what you're seeing is not unusual, moreso on Mik's though. It's the reason I removed the accelerator pumps on the RR1000 in race trim. They were just confusing my jetting. |
