| Author | Message | ||
     Buelliedan |
Kevin, I highly recommend the Bridgeston BT 20's for a sport touring bike such as your M2. They wear like stone and have better grip than the Dunlop 205's. My S3 has them and I already have 5,000 miles on the rear and it still has at least half it's tread remaining. I have been very unhappy with the Dunlop 205's and 207's on my bikes. I believe Aaron is also running the BT 20's on his M2 and is very pleased as well. Dan | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Kevin, I've got the 220's on my M2. Only have about 150 miles on them so far. The roads are still pretty crappy up here so I haven't been able to push them much. Initial impression, I like them. Seem to have better stick than the 205's even in the colder temps. Brad | ||
| Henrik |
Sandstorm: did you lube the cable well before installing? Kevin: I've been running MeZ3's on the S3. My guess is around 3000 miles on the rear tire. Sportec would probably give similar milage - maybe a bit more. Henrik | ||
| X1glider |
I'm with u Caboose. I have to wonder how they spec out the tire sizes too. My hog for instance came with a 100 on the front for a 2.15 rim. Some spec a 90 on it. Some say you can go up to a 110 (which I'd like but feel uneasy about). The tire mfr recommends a 2.50 rim for a 100 and 110 tho. Who knows what's going thru all their heads? I'd like to get rid of my D207s too. Not bad, but I'd like to find more traction. Damn the mileage. I'll spend the extra money to buy tires more often if I feel safer on stickier tires in city traffic dodging cagers. Who has recommendations for the stickiest tires out there? | ||
| Aaron |
Yeah, I agree with BD, the '020 is an excellent Sport Touring tire, wears and handles much better than the stock D205. I've slid the S2 around with it and it gave good feedback and didn't fall over. Looks like it'll last 50% longer than the D205, too. I'm not a fan of the '010, though. | ||
| Oldman |
out of curiosity, what tires did you have on the bike at battletrax, aaron | ||
| Aaron |
an '010 rear (i.e. where the problem was)  | ||
| Kevinhern |
I've riden the '020 on my Dad's Moto Guzzi Le Mans and I really liked them. It's nice to hear that they are lasting over 5,000 miles as well. I think I'll give them a try on the M2. Thanks for the advise. Kevin | ||
| Oldman |
do you think the 020 would have made some difference that day, and if so what would you match up to the front, looking at my first set pretty soon and still impressed with what you did have that day. | ||
| Aaron |
Neil: The '020 is not a Battletrax tire. You could probably get by with it on a Cyclone or Thunderbolt, but I wouldn't expect to win. I wouldn't put it on a Lightning. Not the right tire for that bike at all. An S1 or X1 needs a gumball. Best tire I've used on the S1 so far: BT56SS. But, it lasted less than 2000 miles. Can't have everything. | ||
| Andys |
Okay Boys and Girls, I've run a 190/50 BT56SS and I'm currently running a 170/60 '010. Differences? Can't tell. Honestly. I can't tell a handling difference between the sizes or the compounds and I've had them both on the track and run them edge to edge. So I say put the biggest ass tire you can fit on that PM wheel and enjoy the looks, for it sure won't effect the handling enough to notice. What am I'm going to do next? Run a 190/50 because the gearing worked out to almost identical to the stock tire (and I don't run a speedo anymore-so I really don't care) and it looked way cooler sticking out back there. And I too want to try those Metzeler M1 things. The biggest problem with the Bridgestones is getting enough heat into them to make 'em work. For months I thought I had screwed up the front geometry because I couldn't get the bike to turn. Turns out I hadn't ridden long enough to put any heat into the tires. But once I did they were fantastic. Metzlers don't have those problems. But I ain't got the money right now, I've got a pretty fresh BT010 on the rear yet the front is wasted. So for now I think I'm going throw on another 56SS (unless someone has a better idea) and wait until the next time both are worn out together and see what's on the market. Have fun and enjoy the purchases. Andy | ||
| Loki |
via le Sportec!  the more I ride the Sportecs the more I like them. Got to find a Battletrax  | ||
| Mikej |
So then, what would be a good BattleTrax tire? Figure a '00 M2, unless I can fanagle an S1 swap (or XB trade-up). Figure the tire has to do well cold since warming it up may not be an option. It should also do well warm or hot for the low attendance days when you can run consecutive laps. | ||
| Blake |
True or False... 1. Cold racing slicks will generally provide better dry grip than cold street tires. 2. Cold racing slicks will generally provide better dry grip than warmed-up street tires. 3. Racing slicks being run on a track are generally run at lower pressures compared to street tires used on public roads. 4. On the racetrack, a good racing slick can outlast a high performance street tire. 5. The tread in sport bike street tires is solely for wet riding traction. ??  | ||
| Henrik |
I'll play : 1: True? 2: False 3: True 4: False 5: True?? Henrik | ||
| Andys |
Me too, I want to play. 1: False. I think slicks need to be at operating temp to have any sort of stick. 2: Not sure. See number 1 3: True, maybe. The lower pressures were used to get heat in the tire by flexing the carcass, but todays radial tires work differently. Henrick, remember the guy in PA who raced Buells and had a bunch of us over to his house out there? He told me to START with 42psi rear and 38psi front and work my way down. I had problems one day at the track with the front end sliding. I was running 30/30. I bumped up the pressures and the problem disappeared. Go figure. 4: True 5: True Oh, that was fun. When can we play again? Andy | ||
| Ralph |
Andy, you house wreaker! Long time no see, glad to see you back. 1. False, slicks gotta be AT the operating temperature. 2. False, see one. 3. False, with todays slicks, a few years ago, maybe. 4. True, on the track a street tire will get baked by the temperature while the slick is operating where it was designed to be happy. 5. True, they may use the existance of tread to design for other features, but at its core, the tread is about pushing/pumping water out. howdididohowdidido????!!! bighairyralph | ||
| Hans |
1 false 2 false 3 false 4 false The streettires simply can`t reach higher cornering speeds. You can`t compare. 5 false also for more cooling surface and making them more easy to bend and keep cool. And of course because Blake wants to make 5 false statements.  Hans. | ||
| Blake |
Hans, I was truly asking five questions to which I want answers. Really, I'm not sure about any of them. I've always heard the line about how racing slicks need to be up to proper temperature to really grip, but when sticking my thumbnail into a cold scuffed D207GP, I just cannot imagine ANY street tire being able to stick better, even when hot. I can say that the track began to seriously chew up my D205's in only five sessions of around 7 laps each. After the first few laps of aggressive riding, the rear tire started to feel kinda greasy on the higher speed left handers (rear end started to squirm as I got on the throttle coming off the apex). Which is why I would like a spare set of wheel assemblies on which to mount some proper track tires. | ||
| Blake |
So, is ANYONE really sure about the correct answers? Ralph sounds pretty sure, but it's hard to fathom that sticky gummy race slick not sticking better than a cold street tire. I figured the racers here would know, but we don't even have a concensus of two yet. Where's Shawn Higbee and Mike Cicotto (sp?) when you need them? | ||
| Hans |
Blake the first answer appeared a year or so ago in an article about tires in a Dutch mag. There was a warning specially for those conditions where all tires have almost not any grip: wetty roads, paved with natural, almost polished, rocks (kinderkopjes, Dutch). Ad 3: Considering that higher pressure avoids overheating but it also keeps the profile better in shape. ad 4: Race slicks are worn out after one race. You simply can`t achieve that with street tires within an hour. ad 5: False: It has to be threaded because the law enforces it. Well,in fact I agree: It is only to diminish the chance to skid on a water film on wet surfaces.  Hans | ||
| Blake |
Whoa! I don't eant to spend $300 every day at the track. Guess I'll spring for the street version of the track tires. Are racing slicks unidirectional, or once worn say on the left side, might they be remounted right side left with no ill effect? | ||
| Henrik |
1. Cold racing slicks ... better dry grip than cold street tires. Well, I don't know, but I was thinking the same as Blake. Even cold a race tire feels soft and sticky. Both types of tires will need heat to work their best, but it would seem to me that "cold stickyness" would matter? 2. Cold racing slicks ... better dry grip than warmed-up street tires. As per above - a warm street tire is not too far off a race tire in tracktion (at least for our kind ) and despite initial sticky rubber, a race tire will need heat to match a warm street tire - at least that's what I think. 3. Racing slicks run at lower pressures ... I'll usually start a track day at 30/30 Front & Rear. Then depending on the pressure I find after first session I'll adjust. It depends, of course, on air/track temperature, how hard I ride etc. On a cooler day I may end up with 30/28 Front/Rear. I'll rarely go higher than 32/32. Those pressures will give me the 10% pressure increase that is supposed to indicate correct tire pressure. These pressures of course depends on rider/bike weight, engine power and how it's used, riding style etc. etc. But generally I'll maintain that for street riding (much less aggressive than track) I run higher tire pressure. But I guess I choose tire pressure for street riding for different reasons than track pressure; on the street I want a decent compromise between grip and wear, and less pressure will wear out a tire much quicker - on track max tracktion is all that matters. 4. ... a good racing slick can outlast a high performance street tire. I've met club racers that'll get 1 weekend of practice and racing out of a set of race tires. For us mortals I think a high end street tire is more than plenty. A set of MeZ3's would last 4-5 track days on the Buell. A set of Avon Azarro Supersport II lasted about the same on the SV (the front held up to about 1200 miles of BRP street riding after ). I'm trying out Metzler Rennsport on the SV this year and went with the "street" tire on the rear and their "hard race" tire up front - probably much more tire than I need. 5. The tread in street tires solely for wet riding traction. Don't know, but Hans' comment on easier flexion etc. seems to make sense as well. Are racing slicks unidirectional, or once worn say on the left side, might they be remounted right side left with no ill effect? I think tires are supposed to uni-directional - hence the arrow  Henrik | ||
| Hogluvr |
 Look Ma, no wheel!! | ||
| Hogluvr |
 SUCCESS!!  | ||
| Hogluvr |
 Essential additions to Hogluvr's toolbox... | ||
| Road_Thing |
HL- The beer will get hot in your toolbox (unless you keep it in the refrigerator!) r-t | ||
| Ralph |
Holy crap Blake, yer gonna take my word for it???!!!  . You've obviously gone loony. I thought you were playing rhetorical twenty questions to see how dumb I was. Have ya read the latest Motorcyclist? I thought that's where you were coming from. From what I understand you would probably be best served with a set of DOT approved "race" tires. I don't think slicks like being heat cycled much so wouldn't be happy being used over several weekends. I believe the DOT race tires are designed with the weekend racer in mind and will take several heat cycles before going to pot. As far as pressure goes, I'm with Henrik. A street tire will need a higher initial temperature because it never reaches as high an operating temperature. A tire on the track is going to have a hotter operating temperature so won't need as much to start with. IE, hotter air expands. I know that contradicts what I said earlier, but hey, a guy who doesn't know anything can change his mind alot I don't think it would be a good idea to switch the tires rotation. And for your own sake, don't listen to me! Henriks got some good track experience as do many others on the board. I thought we were just having fun, other wise I never would have said nothin'. bighairyralph | ||
| Andys |
The grooves on the tires are to remove water. That is their only purpose. The more flex you have in the tread, the more uncontrolled heat you create in the tire and less control over how the tire reacts through the corner. (Blake, your tires were spinning becasue the compound couldn't handle the continual heat caused by being on the track.) Which brings us to the one subject we've haven't spoken about, but is probably the most important, heat cycling. Slicks aren't designed to have multiple heat cycles. After a cycle or two you'll never reach their maximun grip again. Tires such as the BT56ss and the new Metzeler M1 are designed to deal with multiple heat cycles and not lose large percentages of their max grip. Blake, For your purpose (having a spare set of wheels with track tires on them), I would suggest looking at something like Michelin's Pilots (race compound front, harder rear) or the Metzeler Rennsports that Henrik is trying. Those types are perfect or the track and will work through multiple heat cycles. Now go have fun, you rat bastard. Andy | ||
| Blake |
Sounds like good advice Andy, thanks. Instead of a set of race wheels... what I really need is a separate race bike! I might just commit homocide if some squid took me out on my beloved Cyclone. |
