| Author | Message | ||
     Bigun283 |
Blake what do you mean one question one topic? | ||
| Blake |
Bigun: Three minutes after posting your question above you posted the exact same question here. Both received answers the same day. No big deal, just please be mindful in the future. You certainly aren't the first and won't be the last to post duplicate questions. Blake (meanBBSmoderator)  | ||
| Kevinhern |
I'm about to have the SE .536 cams installed in my 2002 M2 using Crane springs with titanium collars. The Crane springs have 175# seat pressure and i'm using the stock lifters and push rods. Are there any know problems with spring pressures of 175# and are the stock lifters and push rods sufficient for these cams and springs? | ||
| Sportyeric |
Kevin, aside from the idiocy attached, you should read my posting above from Dec 20. Putting in longer locating pins is ten minutes work when the cams are out anyway. I'm surprised no-one else has responded to my comments. The cams involved were 567, not 597 as I thought previously. 535 doesn't seem radical enough to cause problems. | ||
| Jmartz |
Kevin: I've running the .536 cams for 15,000 miles now. I used the complete cam/spring kit from Harley and did not use the spring shims for pressure enhancement/unification. If memory serves me well that resulted in 150 lbs. rest pressure. My motor's rev limiter is set to 7000 rpm and I frequently bounce off this limit. So far the parts have performed flawlessly. The rest of the system is comprised of Jim's roller tipped rockers, Hyperformance Ti pushrods and stock lifters and pins. I am confident that those last two parts are not contributing much to the system. The rockers as 40g lighter and the purshods imperceptibly so. | ||
| Jerome |
Aaron and others : I'd like a confirmation from you guys regarding cams on European M2. Is it true that the European M2 have the same more aggressive cams as X1 models, and not the Sporster cams like American M2 ? If this is so, does it mean that apart from FI, there is basically no difference between European M2 and X1 engines ? | ||
| Aaron |
Yes, my parts book says the international M2's have part number 25648-91 for their cams. I remember distinctly the first time I heard Peter fire up his M2. My initial thought was "hey, that sounds just like an S1". The gearcase was making a racket. | ||
| Jerome |
Thanks Aaron, this clarifies things. Some people on this side of the pond go into long discussions about the value of X1 compared to M2 in terms of performance and my argument was that, as long as the carb tuning is well performed on a M2, there is no expected difference. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Jerome, for the record, I know all European M2's from '97 on (and those imported into Australia too) have Lightning cams as standard. There are other subtle differences, but not in the engine dept AFAIK. The European M2's/S1's/X1's out of the box come with slightly lower power ratings due mainly to European noise regs. We also get taller gearing for the same reason. Many of us change the pulleys to US spec. Regards Steve@ukbeg.com http://ukbeg.com | ||
| Blake |
Steve: Do you know what causes the lower power? Extra timing retardation maybe? This would be good to have documented. | ||
| Jerome |
Steve, thanks for the comment. I've already shifted to full american gear spec (27/61). Blake, I think that it only has to do with the muffler. Somebody having reference numbers for the stock muffler in the States and abroad should be able to confirm/infirm this. In addition, the breadbox intake is different on european models. The air has to go around the box before entering through the filter and then into the snorkel, so the restriction is bigger. There is a kind of appendice on the breadbox that you can see on pictures of european models, which doesn't exist on american ones. | ||
| Aaron |
Euro bikes get a 2" collector header. | ||
| Blake |
Jerome: I think the Euro breadbox is actually better. Ours only have an intake on the inside face and lack the extra scoop on the outside face like you get. Aaron: Thanks! I bow to your knowledge. You ever see the ESPN Sports Center commercials with the "big hairy knowledge" muppet? That's your wad of Buell knowledge. It makes the ground shake when it walks!  | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Blake, I find it difficult getting specific "Europe" information about the ignition system. All the documentation I have seems "generic". I was told by an ex UK company tech rep that the Euro bikes get a timing curve that is slightly retarded in the lower-mid range compared to the US, but I have no figures. I'll try again. Along with the different bread box, the taller gearing and the 2" collector, this is all to comply with the more stringent EU noise regs. I can't confirm we get a different muffler or not, most end up at the back of the garage anyhow! We get about 2 or 3 BHP less as a result. Dyno traces I have seen on standard bikes suffer a horrendous torque dip in this rpm range characterised by a very broken up torque/power trace in this region. Correct jetting goes along way to correcting this and I have seen before/after traces showing upto a 30% increase in torque in this range accompanied by a nice flattish curve all the way upto 6500 and beyond. Jerome, if you would, I'd be very interested in the specs of the grey power trace motor. I have a '97 M2, I've got Thunderstorm heads on the way and would appreciate the "recipe" you used for that motor. I would very much like to replicate it. Could you mail me? Regards Steve steve@ukbeg.com http://ukbeg.com | ||
| Jerome |
Aaron, thanks to bring back the evidence ! Of course I forgot the header. Blake, actually it's not an extra scoop, it's the only scoop of the breadbox which is outside instead of inside, resulting in a longer restriction of air flow between the atmosphere and the filter. I don't know if it has any significant effect on power but it surely helps to reduce intake noise. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Jerome, sorry about the rubbish I just wrote! I need to change threads. I just got up! The bread box mod is to reduce noise and does reduce power AFAIK. Steve. | ||
| Jerome |
Steve : I think you're confusing me with somebody else. I still don't have any dyno run of my 00 M2, simply because when Grenoble hosted the 1968 winter olympic games, they didn't manage to build a nice dyno facility... :-) There's only one dealer who has a Dynojet but it's not in use since more than 6 months and will not be so before another 6 months, so I'll have to be patient... My setup is probably among the best you can do on an M2 before starting serious work on heads, cams, pistons, crankshaft, nitrous, etc... It includes mainly a race header, a SuperTrapp muffler, a Mikuni HSR42 coupled to a RRC big airblow, and fine carb tuning with an A/F gauge on-board the bike. + the US gearing for power wheelies ! It pulls very strong and I reach the rev limiter on fifth gear pretty fast... | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Jerome, yeah, I just got up, rubbed my eyes and posted. I realised I confused you with "Torqd" on another thread. Sorry! Regards S | ||
| Hans |
Blake: The outside scoop on the European breadboxe is a single inlet: the filter is sitting in the box, left right reversed, and our European backplate is closed. The total inlet is extended. There are no pictures of the European model in my manual. Hans. | ||
| Blake |
Hans: Interesting stuff. I recall after tossing my first '97 M2, my arm still in a sling (broken collar bone), I paid my first visit to Mr. Nallin at Shreveport HD/Buell. He had a used S3, Black with silvery-gray frame. Its breadbox had both inlets which I thought was somewhat cool. Not sure how it started out in life. Probably was a domestic box with the Euro scoop part added. | ||
| Bigun283 |
Just put andrews n6's in my 98 s1w. actually its still at the shop getting dynoed. just wanted to know what kind of horsepower improvement others have had with cam changes. | ||
| Rapid49 |
I took a ride this morning and while riding on a nice open stretch of road I was running about 120 mph for several miles when I started to lose power about that time she backfired a couple of times then it felt like I was running on one cylinder. I pulled over and heard some valvetrain noise. At this time I shut it off and called for a truck to haul it home. I pulled the rocker boxes. I found a bent pushrod on the rear exhaust. As soon as I can get a new pushrod I am going to run a compresion test. I am wondering if possibly the valve hit the piston? What else would bend a pushrod? Should I be looking for better pushrods? What else should I be checking for damage? Any info or input on this would be apreciated. | ||
| Ralph |
You need to pull your heads. The pushrod didn't bend itself, something got in the way. Unless you shave the heads or something else to alter the heigth of the motor there is no reason to go to other than stock push rods. How many RPM were you running (6k right?)? bighairyralph | ||
| Sportyeric |
I heard old wives' tales of lifters "pumping up." If such a thing were possible, it would produce results like that, I would think. Just shooting from the hip, trying for early bird points. I'm dying to hear what the people who know what they're talking about have to say. BHR, of course, is right that the head needs removal. | ||
| Rapid49 |
Yea I was running about 6k and I was thinking the same thing about the pushrod bending itself, but what besides the piston would get in the way? And why? Iwill run a comp test first and then pull the head. Thanx for the input. Needto know what caused this and preventit from happening again. Iwas riding with about 20 jap bikes and it didnt look to good for buell! Thanks Evan | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Sounds like a seized valve to me? Steve steve@ukbeg.com http://ukbeg.com/ | ||
| Jmartz |
Rapid: You are going to have to remove the heads and lifters and look down into the lifter bores and inspect the retaining pins. Also remove the valve springs and see if the valves slide up and down w/o resistance. Inspect the top surface of the pistons and the chambers. Look at the rockers, the top of the valve stems and the rocker shafts. Get new gaskets and bead blast the jugs, pistons and heads. | ||
| Johnsachs |
Rapid, Before you remove anything other than the other pushrod,do a cylinder leakdown.If you have a bent valve you'll hear air escaping. John | ||
| Sportyeric |
After bending a pushrod myself for reasons too stupid to share, I was told that it is possible to slightly bent the head of the valve but have it pulled tight into the seat by valve spring pressure. That the only way to ensure the valve wasn't slightly bent wass to remove it. The leakdown test may be interesting additional info but I would think peace of mind requires head removal and valve disassembly. | ||
| Chrism |
Gentlemen, I work in a machine shop and have seen bent valves seal by spring pressure. In fact one overrevved BMW M3 had 12 seriously bent valves and still made good power on a chasisdyno. They had pounded the seat into conformity and the stems were narrow enough to allow stressed realignment of the valvehead. Probably would not have been long before a valve head popped off and really did damage to the motor. |
