| Author | Message | ||
     Djkaplan |
Update on my fuel filter breather set-up PART 2. It's working! Now that the breather line enters the filter body first, the spooge has not clogged the element inside it. When I emptied it for the first time (after 50 miles) I was surprised to find not spooge, but mostly water with very little oil (approx. 1 tablespoon). Still not a proper alternative to a catch-can, but certainly a viable temporary one. Ara, Sorry, I don't know the PNs for the spring and ball. The Service Manual only specifies PNs for tools, not components. I'll have to pick up a Parts Manual soon. I need some exciting reading material. | ||
| Bullitt |
DJ - I like your breather idea. Works well and costs little. I'm too anal about my bike's appearance to have hoses running all over it, but I'm recirculating the stuff back into the engine now and after reading Aaron's dyno posts that is a Bad Thing. If I read right, yours is teed together into a single hose that follows the top right frame rail down to the battery, and has a filter with both the inlet and outlet on its top. Did I get that right? Any chance you could post a picture? Kevin | ||
| Djkaplan |
Bullitt, No digital camera yet, sorry no pics. You nailed it exacty, except I ran the hose over the engine and down the left frame rail. Except for the hoses leaving the cylinder heads, nothing can be seen unless the tank is off. The vertical distance the water and oil mist need to rise through the tubes is no greater than the stock arrangement. There is a greater distance for it to travel though. I used a Deutsch fuel filter PN FF410 and 3/8" hoses. Everything is secured with nylon wraps and it looks factory, not cobbled together (like it essentially was!). I drilled a hole in the bottom of the filter body and glued a 3/8" vacuum fitting to it. I used an automotive vacuum plug as a reusable drain (although a small petcock could have been used). Total cost not including glue - $5.00 If you are going to do this, make sure you attach the breather tube to the feed fitting. This allows the water/oil mist to collect in the bottom of the filter housing without going through the filter element first. Although it seems to be working fine, I will eventually fab a proper catch can. I don't want to use the available kits; I'm going to design my own (my kind of fun!). I do think there is merit in running the hoses down after they leave the cylinder heads and not teeing them together. My design may incorporate those features, but I don't see it as imperative. | ||
| Bullitt |
DJ - thanks! That drain setup is clever. I'm on my way to Autozone for the stuff to do it now. I don't have a digital camera either but I'll borrow one to take a picture once it's done. Kevin | ||
| Bullitt |
DJK - just wanted to tell you how pleased I am with your breather design. I finished putting it on the M2 yesterday. It was cheap, is completely hidden, and works beautifully. I did end up doing a couple of things differently. I still have the factory supplied breather bolts that point straight out. Unfortunately, they are too close to the back plate on my ham can air filter to make the bend up without kinking. I cobbled together some elbows out of vacuum tees for now until I can get down to the H-D place to get the 90 degree types. I also ended up putting the filter under the thickest part of the bodywork beside the oil tank, so unless you are on your knees, you can't see it. I drilled the filter for the drain ( there was even a perfect sized little round "dot" on the bottom of the filter - good drill guide! ) and attached a short section of hose. That way, when I go to drain it I can direct the spooge away from the bike. Good job and thanks again! Pictures when I can snag a camera. Kevin | ||
| Djkaplan |
It's your design at this point Kevin. You fabricated it, you did the work. Did not have the kinking problem with my Forcewinder. I like the ham can filter though, it looks more "factory". I'll remember your post if I get one any time soon. Thanks... | ||
| Buellsht |
Interesting concept with the fuel filter/catch can. I had the same idea back in September, posted it for comments, got no responses and thought I was way out in left field, but I installed it, and it works great. I attached mine to the side of the battery with velcro in order to keep it low enough for the hoses to drain into it. The velcro also allows for easy replacement when needed. I'm glad to see others out there with creative ideas. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Buellsht, I very well may have read that post and subconciously lifted the idea from you. I acquiesce any patent rights! Have you fabricated a drain for it? Most of what I've been draining is water that probably condenses inside the engine. I would venture to guess that most of what comes out of my bikes breather system is water vapor. Oil mist and blowby are smaller constituents than I would have believed. Some of the previous posts in the archives seem to suggest this also. Any thoughts gentlemen? | ||
| Marks3tbillet |
Questions on rockerbox gaskets and oil drain hole in rocker boxes: 1. I'm replacing stock gaskets with the new steel H-D one piece parts. Does it matter which way the bead goes, up or down? 2. I think I know which drain hole to drill out to 1/8 inch, but would like some photos. I would also like more detail on the chamfering of the umbrella valve hole if someone has pictures. Thanks for any assistance. | ||
| Ara |
DJK & Buellsht: I concur with the assessment that most of the liquid from the breather system is apparently water. The liquid from my breathers is amber is color and quite thin. Would be interesting to have it analized, but it's probably not worth the effort as long as the liquid is removed from the engine. The use of fuel filters as breather filters and catch cans is kinda ingenious. I have concerns about the fine filter paper being fouled by the liquid from the breathers and not being able to pass the gasses as readily, but the thing is so cheap that you could change them out monthly. Nice thinking, guys! Russ | ||
| Ccryder |
Russ: The coco i get out of my X-3 can will light sometimes. Usually it is quite thin, mostly water and oil mist. Later Neil S. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Marks3, Check back in the Nov 13 Archive, I posted some pics of the rocker box mods. This link should take you there. Scroll up a few posts for a description. It should show you everything you need. Brad Rocker Box Stuff | ||
| Lake_Bueller |
C:\My Documents\My Pictures  Catch can.jpg | ||
| Ara |
Lake: Try again with the photo, will you please? | ||
| Spudman |
Update on posted breather mod Changed my oil and filter Monday night. This was the first time the Jaz puke can I put on my 99M2 was drained. When I flipped the lever to drain it, about an ounce and a half of clear odorless liquid then some drips of cream colored liquid came out. The puke was primarily water (didn't taste it, just a likely guess based on the known by-products from combustion process). Hardly any engine oil in the puke, just a few cream colored drips. Glad this shit doesn't go to the air box anymore. And even happier with the new puke can. Now I can stop and look at my puke instead of just guessing whats in it, hey that looks like a french fry. | ||
| Scot |
I have a 2002 X1 with a force intake. I recently put a ASB catch can on it. Within a couple hundred miles the little K&N filter has become completely saturated and the area around the filter has become covered from a lite mist of oil. The catch can only had a couple drops of gunk in it.Could anybody tell me what could be causing this or a remedy for this? Thanks,scot. | ||
| Sem1 |
Scot: I have had exactly the same problem with my ASB catch can. I am wondering if it is a problem with the design; one of the tubes (and I forget which one), either the breather tube or the tube the filter attaches to reaches almost all the way to the bottom of the can. It does not take much fluid in the can to submerge the bottom of the tube. My theory is that once the bottom of the tube is submerged, the breathing of the motor causes the collected puke to fly off in fine mist. Visualize sticking a drinking draw into a full glass and blowing into it. I have never had much puke accumulate in the can, but the area of the bike close to the little K&N filter is always very well oiled. Anybody have any ideas/experience as to how to remedy the situation? I have considered experimenting with different length tubes, but have not gotten around to it yet. Cheers, Semi | ||
| Scot |
Semi, I have received one recommendation to use a plastic dish washing scrubber,like a mesh sheet that is rolled up,in the can.This weekend I'm taking it apart,if the tube seems excessivly long than I will attempt to cut it shorter. Thanks,scot. | ||
| Sem1 |
Scot, after you are done with taking the can apart, please post a message about what you found. Cheers, Semi | ||
| Jerome |
Scot and Semi : I had the same problem on my ASB catch can and I solved it pretty simply : I've removed the small K&N filter, I replaced it with a 5-feet long tube which goes around the oil tank, back and forth, until it reaches a bigger K&N filter installed just below the seat, nearby the licence plate. With this setup, it takes a while before I start to get some mist around the K&N filter, as most of the water and oil vapors will condense in the catch can or in the long tube. Now the catch can and its surrounding always stay perfectly clean. | ||
| Bomber |
All I'm chained to the lathe, making a couple of catch cans, but I really don't like the look of the brass fittings I've used in the past . . . .I've found either stainless or aluminum fittings for everything except the petcock to drain the sucker with (I know there are other ways around that issue, but I'd like to use a petcock, if possible) . . .. anyone got a source of stainless or aluminum petcocks? thanks | ||
| Jim_Witt |
John, Just curious, any particual reason it has to be a petcock? Check out; McMaster-Carr and do a search for petcock. To my knowledge they offer a chrome plated version of their typical brass finished ones. Cheers, -JW:>) | ||
| Bomber |
Jim . . .thanks fer the tip, sir! petcock, er, easily operated without tools, no part (like a cap) to remove and leave in the parking lot . . . .but, that said, I"m open to suggestions . . . . . (on, no, I've done it again, ain't I?) | ||
| Mikej |
Bomber, Check marine supply stores near the waterfront down there, or one of the general aviation parts houses down there near one of the smaller airports. Check the purge/check valves on aircraft fuel tanks, push to drain, nothing to loose. Just an idea. Also, I don't have the web site handy, but Aircraft Spruce and Specialty used to sell a lot of small parts to the EAA home aircraft builders. I think they're still based somewhere near Fullerton California. | ||
| Bomber |
Mikej . . . youdabomb! I'd checked the marine shops around here, and had the virtues of bronze qouted to me, book, chapter and verse . . . . when I persevered, they allowed as how they could mebbe special order it, and they'd put it in with their next order ina couple of weeks, and mebbe I'd have it in time fer Walpurgis Nacht .. . . . ah well . . . . . Aircraft Spruce, however, looks like heaven! thanks for the tip! | ||
| Mikej |
Just be carefull though, if you order the catalog from them you'll quickly start thinking of building up a whole airplane. Dangerous catalog, all sorts of guages and such, a/f mixture, wind speed, barometric pressure, temp and humidity, and all sorts of dual/triple/quad combined sets too. | ||
| Bomber |
Mike . . . .since I spent a fair amount of my wonder years hurling my person from perfdectly good aircraft, both fixed and roptarty wing type, I am a bit leery about aircraft . . . no a great deal of interest in flyin them, but, now that you mention it, BUILDING one would be a gas, wouldn't it? | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, I got as far as ordering a set of study plans for a four-place single engine plane (Christavia), then started looking at the KitFoxes and their clones, then started looking at the costs, then looked back at bikes, then just built an RC glider and decided that was enough of that. Anyway, got curious and looked up Spruce's page, and found this. Just what everyone needs, an accelerometer which "registers "G" forces acting on the airframe during turbulence or aerobatic maneuvers. One pointer gives a continuous reading,the other 2 indicate maximum positive and negative loads". Oh well, lots of neat stuff to think about. Here's their main link in case anyone wants to browse their online catalog: Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. | ||
| Jmartz |
Is it Ok to tie together both the engine and trans breathers? | ||
| Ara |
Jmartz, Doing so would reduce the volumetric efficiency of both breather systems, and might expose the tranny to some engine pressure transients. It's probably best to keep them separate. Why would you want to do that? Russ |
