| Author | Message | ||
     Stantherock |
Big Ralph, Here the dimensions of my 2002 Sportster flywheels. Drive Side 1.135 Rod .725 Pinion Side 1.115 Rod .750 Diameter 8 Weight 24lb with shaft My cases are back from Zippers and were putting it back together today. Hope to ride by the end of the week. Thanks, Stan | ||
| Admin |
The following classified parts wanted ad is duplicated here for discussion's sake: By Ken01mp on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 11:23 am: I'm looking for an NOS nitrous kit for my '01 M2. They want close to a grand at the dealership; thats crazy talk. But hey, gotta beat the liter class crotch rockets somehow. Any helps greatly appreciated Thanks, Ken | ||
| Ron |
Ken, Lots of guys (and gals) out there will think I'm all wet on this but here goes. The Buell is a hot rod. Not particularly a Rocket ship. The best and most inexpensive way to beat the "liter class crotch rockets" is with another liter class crotch rocket. No doubt you can do it with your Buell if you spend enough money. But you will end up with a bike that will break all the time, simply not hold up to day in and day out riding. As soon as your nitrous bottle is empty - your just a air cooled, two valve, push rod V twin again. But that's a philosophical view I know. I learned it from my 1984 FXRT. I spent thousands of dollars investing in lots of horse power - only to end up with the fastest Turtle on the block. The were precious few liter bikes I could keep up with without breaking something eventually. The satisfaction of beating a Ninja one(I would be willing to bet the Ninja was NOT running nearly up to snuff too) was more than offset in the cost to fix the stuff that broke in the process! How much do you want to spend? Ron | ||
| Blake |
Ron, he just wants a nitrous kit. I've toyed with the idea myself. A modest 30 HP NOS boost might be fun to have in your pocket. I'd want it to be 100% hidden though. A true sleeper rig.  Anyway, let's move the discussion to more appropriate parts of the board. | ||
| Ron |
OK - it's confession time. So I'm a hypocrite! Even as I was sending my message to ken it niggled at me that my own S-3T is, at this very moment, having serious head work done, after which they will be set on top of a set of Millennium Tech jugs and fuel will be metered by a Power Commander with air coming through the modified bread box, the whole of which when burned will exit out the Borla header and pipes. But! By way of excuse - explanation:I decided to have the head and cylinder work done when I was informed that a long time oil loss problem was due to seriously warped jugs which so far Buell will not replace (negotiations are ongoing). I decided against stock jugs as I've simply heard about too many of them warping to go back to the same thing. Everything I am doing on this engine is with the hope of ending up with a motor that will LAST. Power that comes as a result of that I consider an extra bonus. The pipes I put on to improve the looks and sound. Therefore I must apologize to Ken for the hollow righteousness =) But I have been down the road of hunting Bullet Bikes with my air cooled, two valve, push rod, V-twins. The hunt (as Ken is finding out) is very expensive and keeps on costing as you succumb to the temptation to keep trying new widgets that promise a pony here and a poney there. Thank goodness for the folks on this list who put out their dyno information. It can save us all a LOT of money. The S-3T is the most fun thing I have ever ridden even in stock trim. Ron | ||
| Ken01mp |
i bought my buell becuase its a damn fun bike to ride, plain and simple. its more fun to look at than a crotch rocket, its more fun to get reactions from than a crotch rocket, and it sure as hell is more fun to pump for ponies. you know what a shot of juice is to an 90rwhp bike? a throttle wheelie at 80, thats what that is. yeah, im a kid at 19, but ive been riding since i was 6. a lot of the buell crowd is older, smarter and more mature, and i hope to learn a lot from guys like blake and aaron and ron. but i think a lot of you could learn a little from my passion and intesity, maybe let it bring out the young punk in you. its there. the proof is in your bike. i hope the dyno wars on the web arent just a status thing, i hope its in the pursuit of more power, and inevitably, more pleasure. too fast is never fast enough, right? and why be able to go fast if you dont race? and why race if you will lose? i want more than to be competitive, i want to win, ill do whatever it takes, and if that includes nitrous, so be it. you may attack my immaturity, ill own up to that, but do not attack my passion, because that is why we are all here. Ken | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Sounds to me Ken, like you are in for a Turbo set up, and lots of dough on a seriously strong bottom end and transmission. Nothing else will do, the rice guys will just blow you away when the Nitrous has gone. Now the Turbo, that's always there when you need it and the bike is like a pussy cat when you don't! Cost? oh, I dunno, 8 or 10 big ones? more? And me? I just catch them up at the next set of traffic lights............. :-) Steve steve@ukbeg.com http://ukbeg.com | ||
| Ron |
Ditto on the Turbo Ken. At least you won't have to worry about running out of Nitrous. I'm not sure about the $8-10K tarrif though. Perhaps it might go that high if you beef up the bottom end. Think if I were to go that way I'd pop for the Turbo 1st. If something went south in the bottom - just fix it with heavy duty stuff. There are a few articles somewhere on the list that cover turbo's. Always thought about one but just can't get past the looks. Price is a concern for me too. Unfortuanately I have several rather expensive past times with only one very modest income! So I have to spread things around a bit. I DO appreciate your passion for life and something that will smack your eyeballs up against the back of your skull when you whack the wick! Maybe someday if I live long enough I'll get something that will do that. Closest I ever came was an 89 Yamaha FJ 1200. But that went towards the S-3T and I'm not sorry even with the problems I've had now and then with it. Go for it. As long as you know what to expect - getting whipped pretty regular - back to the drawing board and bank account!! Hey - a guy's gotta have something to keep him out of trouble and blowing big bucks on your Buell is sure better than a lot of other things. Just be sure to set a portion of your modification money aside for speeding tickets and higher insurance costs =) Ron | ||
| Ken01mp |
first of all, ive already got a couple of bad speeding tickets and an exhibition ticket. my insurance couldnt get any worse. second of all, theres no way im gonna spend ten grand on a turbo. okay, so my NO2 bottle runs dry, i go home, as a winner. your turbo makes "free" power, but its the cost of the bike again and then some. plus, its always on. i want to be able to wind the bike out moderately, without juice, and not worry about some gas sucking turbo draining my fuel tank and eating my rear tire after a thousand miles. i like my 85rwhp just fine, i just want a kick in the ass every so often. but what about the gear whine of a blower? why not have instant, tire smoking, head snapping throttle response? the gas mileage thing is a lost argument cause thats gonna suck no matter what, and if you got the money to drop on toys like that, it wont matter either way. what does it come down to? if set up correctly, NOS has the same or better power boost, it retains normal performance under regular conditions, is more reliable, is way easier to hide, lighter, and ONE TENTH the cost. NO2 is, without question, the biggest bang for buck mod a guy can make. you can have your turbos Ken and btw, i beat the crap outta the 600's. with juice i should be able to handle the 954's and the R1's. im not worried about getting whipped. | ||
| Ron |
Well - go for it! I'll keep my eyes peeled for a reasonable deal on a NO2 set up for you. When you get it done - let us know how it worked out for you. Get some dyno numbers for us. Thanks Ron PS:Fuel sucking was indeed another consideration in the turbo thing. But a few guys I know who have put them on Big Twins (FXRS) only had tire and fuel problems when they were constantly in the turbo. Otherwise the engine acted pretty much like stock and the fuel consumption was about par with a normally asperated engine. Ron | ||
| Oldman |
since you brought up the 84 fxrt ron, what happened to it. got an 83 that i would like to find more parts for, mainly to rebuild the fairing, and attach everything. nkemp@ij.net | ||
| Blake |
A turbo run at normal cruising speeds will not hurt your fuel efficiency. Ken, as to whipping up on liter bikes... I think a new stock GSXR1000 puts out close to 140 RWHP. Plus it weighs in at 50 lbs or so lighter than a Buell. Plus it is fully faired. I guess what I'm trying to convey is that you shouldn't be too dissappointed if even with nitrous, you have trouble keeping up with the liter bikes. Hey, if you have any left after getting beat, you can always inhale some NO2 to drown your sorrow. | ||
| Ken01mp |
well, okay. two things. first of all, if i had a turbo, "normal cruising speeds" would be a rarity to say the least, for me to keep my hand out of it would be tough. secondly, i made no mention of the gsx-r there is no touching that thing, but the 954 RR and the R1 run 10.3's to 10.5's, with a pro at hand. thats not unatainable. im not talking top speed, or even anything above a buck-thirty. im just talking about raw, muscular acceleration. getting beat is inevitable, i wont deny it, but they put sulfur in the NO2 so it smells so bad you dont dare play with it. (dont ask me how i know). thanks for the help. Ken | ||
| Blake |
Ken, I'm surprised you ain't figured it out yet... Ya gotta plug your nose and inhale orally. How many lbs of NO2 do you think you'll end up burning over the summer? | ||
| 1320 |
Ken, Find a friendly dentist (who likes racing), no sulfur in his NO2..hehehehehehehehehe | ||
| Racinswifty |
Ken, There are NOS kits for the Carburators. Use the Harley kit, it should work. Put on about 60 hp, that'll scare you enough and no problem catching those litre bikes. Sounds like you are running into novice riders. My buddy runs a 2000 R1 and runs 9.80 stock with pipe. So I would back down a little and look before running those bikes. I wish I had a S1 instead of X1 cause FI requires more work to tune for NOS. I might be wrong on that part. Good luck on the street. | ||
| Oldman |
speakin of racin 1320, how'd you make out in bradenton this weekend, wish i could of made it down, but laziness set in and worked in side the house a little. | ||
| Blake |
Steve: No real worries with adding nitrous. The primary and tranny are able to handle the extra poop. Keep in mind they are designed to handle dumping the clutch which puts a hell of a shock load into the primary and tranny. And I'd think that any SANE rider will wait for third gear before pushing the button. Just don't run it lean!!! | ||
| V2win |
Yep, dont run it lean and dont run it long. I have sold many NOS kits for all kinds of applications. If you expect "normal" length of service of your engine, keep in mind that anything over a few seconds use and the heat in your engine goes way up. Too much heat and the engine will fail. Use nitrous with some common sense and you will find that its very cheap h/p. But is does shorten engine life simply because of the extra h/p it makes. I had one customer that put over 200 bottles of juice thru his car. When he took it apart there were no signs of nitrous damage. I had another that blew his boat up the first time he used it. When ask how long he had the nitrous on, he replied "until it blew". I normaly advise "street" users to keep it under 15 seconds.  | ||
| Blake |
V2win: What would you recommend for someone (me) wanting a modest boost, say 30 HP. Also, is there such a thing as a throttle regulated nitrous system? It seems like it wouldn't be too darn difficult to rig a system to come on starting at 1/2 throttle and increase nitrous linearly up to WOT. Or even rig a system with its own separate throttle, maybe a little thumb lever hidden under the kill switch/starter assy? Can a nitrous setup be mechanically metered rather than via solenoid? | ||
| Blake |
I think I know the answer to this question already, (risk of explosion), but is it possible to use plain ole oxygen instead of nitrous? What about a mix of oxygen and air to reduce the volatility involved? | ||
| Ken01mp |
blake, i think what you are thinking about is like a two or three stage nitrous kit, having different doses for different rpms. most drag racers (cars anyway) run multiple stage nitrous kits. it just steps up as the revs go up. as for the time limit thing, i was always taught that you could run juice as long as the engine stayed cool. its a irony in itself really, when no2 goes from a liquid in the bottle to a gas, it cools to like -175 degrees F, but by making more power it makes more heat. and yes V, you hit it right on the money about the engine wear due to the extra stress caused by the engine making more power. safely it will cause no harm, improperly, it will wreck stuff. running lean is real bad because that adds to the heat problem. but even worse is timing. NO2 is not flammable in itself, it is an accelerant, meaning it makes gas and air burn quicker. failure to retard timing can cause psuedo-nuclear detonation. then again, what do i know, im just a kid. Ken | ||
| Ken01mp |
blake, when NO2 is heated and compressed, it realeases one O atom, creating more oxygen to burn, but as much as 40 percent of the power gain is from the cooling effect NO2 has on the incoming charge of air. so, its like spraying really cold, dense O2 into the motor, like you suggest. Ken | ||
| Swon |
Has anyone dynoed their Nallin 1250cc Big Bore kit and Stage 3 heads. How do you like it? I just ordered from Brian and I'm curious. What ignitions and pushrods are you guys running with it? Thanks, Sam | ||
| V2win |
Blake, It has been some time since I got out of the racing business and the NOS manufactures are always improving on their products. I do remember one particular customer that had a Harley who installed smaller nozzels for the nitrous to cut down on the h/p. I cannot remember the details. NOS has since been bought up by Holley. I will dig out my NOS catgs. tomorrow to see what systems they show. In the end, it will be best to call NOS direct for the latest info on parts available. Bike systems for street use were go or no go with different nozzels available to make more or less hp, unlike the car systems which come with several stages of power. It just gets too complicated on a street bike to have staged systems. Drag bike are a different animal. Solenoids are available in different sizes. Nozzels are available in different sizes. In the end I would suggest staying with a single stage, small hp setup for a street bike. Anything else results in unreliablity and/or excessive engine failure. | ||
| Ken01mp |
i have a question of a different topic now though. i know of a place that sells 110 octane racing gas. what are is effects on a motor? i know octane rating is the measurement for a gas to resist detonation, or ping. in essence, it burns slower for a longer, higher torque, power stroke. so, with properly advanced timing, it should make more power in theory, but how would it relate to NOS, and does it cause a leaner or richer condition? and does a longer, slower burn produce excess heat? i know it makes my bike idle like a pro stocker and smell just as good. it will make your eyes water at a stoplight, but what else is it doing inside my motor? Ken | ||
| Blake |
Ken: I do know something about octane. The only benefit of higher octane fuel (all else being equal) is as you mentioned its resistance to detonation. That property is a big benefit for higher compression engines in preventing detonation and pre-ignition. Now the race fuel you mentioned also is much higher quality than pump fuel. Racing fuel is usually composed of a few specific chains of hydrocarbons, specifically chosen for their combustion properties and energy value. Pump fuel can be comprised of hundreds of different hydrocarbon chains, some much more volatile than desired. If your bike runs fine and doesn't detonate (ping) or pre-ignite (knock) I doubt you will notice a significant benefit to running racing grade fuel. | ||
| Ken01mp |
but shouldnt i be able to run a more advanced timing curve and make more power? | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Blake, I work for an large industrial gases manufacturer, I know about Oxygen and machinery, a little anyhow! The only safe(ish) way to use pure Oxygen would be to enrich the air ***before*** the carb. Squirting O2 into a finely atomised fuel/air mixture is just too dodgy, think along the lines of "kaboom"! Disclaimer- the above doesn't constitute advice on fitting Oxygen enrichment to an IC engine! :-) Steve steve@ukbeg.com http://ukbeg.com | ||
| Pammy |
or you could use oxygenated fuel(propylene oxide)(sp?)volatile stuff. |
