| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Bill: Who told ya that HD360 base stock is semi-synthetic? I was under the impression that it is conventional. You are dead on kerkekt about the temperature stuff. Still, if you change your oil every 2K or 3K miles, even conventional will work just fine. I go 5000 miles between oil changes using synthetic. That amounts to two or three oil changes a year. EvoMX: It has been shown beyond ANY doubt that all the moto brand oils are no better/different than any good automotive oil. In fact many were inferior. Blake (knowledgewillsetyoufree!)  | ||
| Racinswifty |
Understood! Thanks for all the input. I'll check into the mobil 1 15w 50 for my next oil change in the next 2500 miles. RACINSWIFTY | ||
| Milehi |
Evomx, I use the Mobil 1 15w-50 in my Bandit. As long as the container doesn't display the Energy Conserving seal (contains chemicals that can destroy a wet clutch) then it should be ok. The 15w-50 is the only M1 automotive oil that will not destroy the wet clutch. It looks like this won't be a problem with the Buell! Ray | ||
| Blake |
MileHi: Where did you hear that automotive energy saving oil "contains chemicals that can destroy a wet clutch"? The "energy saving" aspect is simply the lower viscosity ranges being used, 5W30 or 0W30 instead of 10W40 and such. | ||
| Ara |
Milehi - I don't think you've got that right. I used automotive oils for years in my Suzuki and Honda, accumulating over 40K combined. I never had to mess with the clutch on either bike, and I think it said "energy saving" on every bottle of oil I used. | ||
| 1320 |
I use the Mobil 1 V-Twin synthetic and am able to by it for $5 a qt. I get it from the local bulk dealer for fuel and oils. The best thing I've found so far for the primary fluid is B&M trick shift tranny fluid. The clutches in my S2 which is a dedicated track bike last the longest by far with the B&M and when I pull the primary to change the clutch there is no nasty sediment laying in the bottom...Clean as a whistle.. | ||
| Milehi |
Blake, I'm still searching for all my old links (re. on old system resurrected after the crash of '01). but here are a few that I have found. The specific one I'm looking for just plumb eludes me!http://members.ols.net/~jcborre/oilpage.htm http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm I'm also pestered with a memory of 1978 on my KZ650B when I changed the oil and ram Mobil 1. Very freaky experience winding the bike out to redline in 1st and not moving! That one cost me a new set of clutch plates. Don't get me wrong... I prefer to run a full synthetic in all my vehicles, but I will err on the side of caution if there is a doubt about a specific oil or viscosity. Next time you're at a Wally World check out the M 1 oils... Ever single one of them has the Energy Conserving seal EXCEPT the 15w-50. Moot point for owners of Buells but as an owner of another bike with a wet clutch, I'll take the perceived safer course... Besides, mucking around with the wet clutch is such a pain! YMMV Ray | ||
| Blake |
MileHi: The reason, and the ONLY reason the Mobil-1 15W50 does not have the "Energy Conserving" rating is.... its higher viscosity. You won't find ANY 50 or now even 40 weight oil that does. It's very simple, the higher the viscosity, the higher the interlubricant friction. That's why racers often run 30 weight oils. They gain a few HP by virtue of significantly less frictional losses. I'd be curious to know how many miles your KZ650B had on it's clutch. And why it you revved it to redline in first gear if it wasn't moving?! I don't doubt you suffered a failure. Blaming the oil is kinda silly though. They were likely on the verge of giving up. Good links, you should read the answers to questions 3, 4, and 5 in the FAQ section of the 2nd link. Blake (combatantoftechnomythology) | ||
| Racinswifty |
B&M tranny fluid contains something like sand in it. Something that I would stay away from after I had my 70 Chevy eat up the clutches and was told that the fluid is junk! Set me back about 1200 bucks for a full race T-350 that I had. BAD MEMMORY! Stick with what Blake uses in trannies! He seems to know what he is talking about.B&M fliud.....HELL NO! | ||
| Racinswifty |
1320: do you ride this "track bike" on the street? I don't think so! Why don't you read the drag racing page and see if You beat the times that I run. No B.S. here! I ride anywhere I please and run the oils recommended for the Buells. Not one lick of problems! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Blake... Actually, I heard it was a semi-synthetic from Od's motorcycle shop, a little hole in the wall repair shop south of Dayton Ohio. I had struggled in with my old Yamaha Radian with oil light blinking, before I had even considered owning a Buell. To their credit, I walked in expecting the worse, and told them "you guys are going to love this, I have a Japanese bike out there that needs some oil" and they replied "we welcome anyone who rides here". The only oil they had was the stock Harley oil, which I seem to remember them saying was semi-synthetic, and asked if I needed any tools. Very cool, much more helpfull then any of the "licensed" orange and black shops I have visited. Plus, they had a heavily modded older Cyclone sitting in the back they use exclusively for drag racing. Gotta like that. So it's just word of mouth. Do anyone know offhand how big the gap is between the highest engine temperature our engines are likely to see, and the breakdown temperature of non-synthetic? I don't recall the exact numbers, but seem to remember they were uncomfortably close to each other. Bill | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Wow!!! I needed some oil for the car, Walmart's the only store open at 10:30PM. Just for grins I checked the Mobile 1 V-Twin 20/50. $5.00 per quart! Normally $6.88. I picked up 6 quarts. Back to you're normally scheduled program.... Brad | ||
| Ara |
Racinswifty: The "something like sand" must be silica. Prestone uses it in their anti-freeze to scour the cooling system of your car clean and keep it free from rust. Doesn't seem to bother automotive water pumps, but at the very least it'll eat up Honda motorcycle water pumps. Don't ask how I know. If you read the fine print Honda coolant specifies that it contains no silica, and so does several other brands. Silica is amazing stuff, but I agree with you it's probably not the right thing to put in a lubricant. Russ | ||
| Kevinhern |
O.K. Here's a subject that's been beaten to death: Engine break-in with synthetic oil. I'm having the Nallin 1250 big bore kit, Millenium (nic-sil) cylinders, Total Seal rings, Nallin stage 2 heads, hurricane pistons, and SE2 .536 cams installed on my 2002 M2. I use Mobil 1 lubricants in every machine I own. I'm a firm believer in synthetics and have never believed that synthetic oil is bad for break-in. I form this opinion from the info I've read from the Mobil engineers, and I know that several high-end cars come from the factory with Mobil 1. However, I'm investing a lot of money in this engine, and I'll only get to break it in once. I respect the knowledge and opinions of many that post on this board and ask you all for advice on breaking in my new top end. Thanks Kevin | ||
| Rempss |
You should ask Brian & follow his directions to the letter, our opinions don't really matter, may be good conversation though. I have the just finished the same on my X1, using HD 20w50 per Brian with several mileage/rpm/oil change instructions. Talk to him, he won't lead you wrong. Jeff | ||
| Blake |
Kevin, the main thing to consider is that you are going to change the oil anyway after 500 or 1000 miles right? Certainly not worth spending $$ on expensive synthetic oil for that first oil change in my opinion. What does Mr. Nallin say about the issue? | ||
| Kevinhern |
The Tech that is doing doing the engine work (Matt at Sun HD/Buell, Denver) has been building engines with Nallin's stuff for several years and comes highly recommended from Brian Nallin. I feel lucky to have such a good Tech in the Denver area. I will certainly follow Matt and Brian's break-in instructions. That's good advise. I feel certain they will tell me to use HD oil during the break-in, which I will. I guess I'm just a little stubborn about my Mobil 1. | ||
| Rempss |
Brian gave me the the HD 20w50 instructions, take a 100 mile ride out then back in. Take the back roads, keep at random speeds/rpms. Give it a little throttle here & there. Change to whatever oil you want at 500+- miles, he uses/sells Royal Purple, change again at 2500 miles. Then do your normal routine. Does your tech follow his head torque tecnique or the Buell manual? 5/10/15/20/25/30/35/40 steps all around, make sure socket does not move on last 40LB measue? He specifically does not include lots of instructions to talk it over with each customer in person. Jeff | ||
| Kevinhern |
Rempss, Thanks for the advise on the head torquing. I'm pretty sure the Tech does it the Nallin way. Nallin told me that Matt has been one of his best dealers. He also said that Matt used to have a religious or cult like following of customers with the Nallin engine mods when he worked in AZ. I highly recommend Matt at Sun HD/Buell in Denver for ANY service or mods. He is friendly, knowledgable, and comes highly recommended from Brian Nallin. | ||
| 1320 |
Hey Swifty, I guess you didn't read that my bike is a dedicated track bike. It has only made full throttle wide open blasts in the 1/4 mile....My rev limiter is set on 7500 so maybe your 6500-6800 rev limit is due to a tight motor?? Mine isn't on the street because it has no lights...and yes I checked your numbers, SLOW...I posted on the drag racing page...SEPJoe Perry 2000 AHDRA National Champion and 2001 AHDRA National Runner-Up. Keep the speed on the track...As far as any oils, everything I use is track tested by ME and I use what works for my application. Anyone else needs to use what works for them... | ||
| Racinswifty |
Joe: why would you put automatic trans fluid in the primary? Are you trying to limit friction? By the way I feel a ton of bricks fall on me. Sorry for being rude! Is there a class that run no bar field? | ||
| 1320 |
John, If you think about it all an automatic transmission is is a bunch of clutch plates...I was at a race and replacing a clutch when a Pro-Fuel racer asked me if I wanted to try some ATF. 90% of the Big motor guys use it in their trannys. I tried it and it worked well. It was Mobil 1 synthetic at the time. Awhile later I tried the B&M and it worked even better.DON'T use any ATF that says Dextron!!! I was also in a pinch once and all I could get was Golden Spectro. My new clutch lasted 1 race....None of the classes in the AHDRA require wheelie bars..Just whatever the individual racer prefers... | ||
| Racinswifty |
Joe: I read the old B&M trannie fliud that I had. It says compatible with type f. so basically a type f fluid with work as long it is a dedicated drag bike, right? Planning on building a buell drag bike in the future and have my eyes on a 98 buell s1 lightning. Thanks for the info on the wheelie bar stuff. | ||
| 1320 |
I wouldn't run the tranny fluid on a street or road race bike at this time...I've tried to get some figures for gear gnash pressures from a couple of tranny fluid companies with no luck... | ||
| Richieg150 |
I have a 2000M2,about 9800 miles.The rocker box gaskets leaked and had them replaced,under warranty.I have noticed that now my gaskets at the base of my cylinders are leaking!I've always warmed my bike up before taking off,is there a reason for these gaskets to be leaking?Or is the problem due to poor factory gaskets?A dealer may be able tp replace the gaskets under warranty,it expired December.If the cylinders are torn down,shouldnt it be honed and new rings installed?Im woundering if the rings wont leak after reinstallation,if not replaced? | ||
| Bushmasta |
I just noticed an oil leak on upper/lower rocker covers over the cylinder. I took it in and was told this was a common place for oil leaks b/c the seals are made of cheap material. He said they would fix it under warranty, but i want to know are they going to replace it with the same flimsy seals, if they are prone to leaking? Are there better seals out there that don't have this problem? He was real busy so I didn't get a chance to ask what they would replace it with it. Anyone experience this problem? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
If the dealer is any good, they will replace the stock paper rocker box gaskets with the new one piece metal units. All dealers were suppose to chuck the paper units when they got the new metal model. I had my metal gasket on the front cyl for about 5K miles with no problems. I had just replace the rear with the old paper style just before the metal replacements became available. I have since replace both with metal as I had the rocker boxes off for polishing. (I also need to pull them to relieve the lifter pressure for cam cover removal (I cut it down and had it power coated)) I know of others that have more miles with the new style with no leaks. James and Cometec (sp?) also make metal replacements that work well. Brad | ||
| Blake |
Richie: If you are experiencing a little weepage, that may not be a serious problem. If you have an actual leak I'll defer to others on the question of new rings and cylinder wall treatment. Guessing, I would not see a need to replace rings or hone the cylinders. One question... Where do you have your crankcase breather running? | ||
| Aaron |
You can always leave the pistons in the jugs when you pull them. Raise each jug *just* enough to get the wrist pin out. But hey, reconditioning that stuff as long as you're in there is not expensive. And it gives you an opportunity to set the squish correctly. | ||
| Richieg150 |
thanks for the feedback |
