Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Archive through March 03, 2002 Aaron 27  1  04-06-02  09:39 pm Archive through April 16, 2002 Lsr_Bbs 30  1  04-16-02  10:04 am Archive through September 01, 2002 Aaron 30  1  09-01-02  08:24 am   Start New Thread

This page is to share some dyno results from testing the Forcewinder and the Buell race Kit Air Filters.





This was done on a near-stock S1 (Thunderstorm top end, Mikuni HSR42, and V&H muffler, everything else is stock).

Jetting was optimized for each configuration.

Observations: the extra intake length of the Force is giving it an advantage over a specific rpm range. It actually outperforms the zero-restriction configuration over that range despite having it's filter in place.

UPDATE 3-31-02 >>>

Take a look at this picture:



The Forcewinder on the left is an older one. Notice how the bowl vent area is cast right into it.

The Forcewinder on the right is a newer one. Notice how the bowl vent is a machined slot that comes in to the airstream at 90 degrees.

Recently, I've had two different bikes on the dyno that were equipped with this later style Forcewinder and the stock CV carburetor. Both of these bikes ran AWFUL with the Forcewinder in place, and ran great after simply carving away at the bowl vent area with a die grinder to open it up like the old style. Here's an example:



The ONLY difference between those two pulls is that the blue one is before grinding out the bowl vent area and the red one is after.

Also, and this is critical, the air/fuel meter shows LEAN when the unmodified Forcewinder is used. The bowl isn't getting vented properly and the fuel can't come out of the bowl properly. So ignore this issue at your own peril.

It's not a case of misalignment between the slot and the bowl vent. In both cases, the indentation of the machined slot was plainly visible in the gasket, and it extends right up to the carb's bowl vent.

How widespread is this? Do they all do it? I don't honestly know. I only know that 2 out of 2 that I've tested behaved this way.

It is not an issue with a Mikuni, as the bowl vents in a different place altogether.

FYI ... Force was given a heads-up about this issue when I first saw it, some months ago.

UPDATE 4-27-02 >>>

At today's dyno shootout at High Country HD, two Forcewinder & CV equipped bikes were presented. Both exhibited the problem described above, take a look:



This is a 103" FLTR. This is the order the pulls were done in.



This is a '96 S2T with an 88" motor. Same deal. Runs like crap, pull the Forcewinder off and it runs good, modify the Forcewinder and it runs good.

Aaron Wilson
NRHS

Author Message   Madstuka Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 09:32 pm:        Can anyone suggest a reputable shop to get my bike dyno tuned in South Florida? Pat   Barryx1m Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 08:20 pm:        My observations with the ForceWinder XR/2 for Fuel injected bikes...(I recently installed one on my 2000 X1M) it's the basically same item as the original Forcewinder! Simply repackaged with different hardware: a breather kit that routes into the conical air filter and ultimately drips oil onto your exhaust or boot! Conical air filter that can accomodate the re-routed breather hose and IAT sensor. A spacer (which doesn't appear to be neccesary as I ran with and without it) If I had to do it again... I would go with a barebones ForceWinder, a crossroads (or similar) breather and catchcan combo and relocate the IAT inside the Air Filter. Force will package and sell you a forcewinder and Air filter with IAT only provisions if your not comfortable relocating the IAT your self.   Bullit Posted on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 06:53 pm:        i read something about setting the forcewinder (ride 5 or6 km between 3000 and 4000 rpm) is this correct??? because i can't find the topic!   Reepicheep Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 09:36 am:        Bullit... you are probably thinking about allowing the ECM to relearn the new fuel mixtures for the fuel injection map. I know you have to do this if you ever starve the system running out of gas, I will let one of the fuelie guys chime in and give an opinion if this is necessary for the installation of a forcewinder. Note this is only an issue for the fuel injected Buells, for the carb'd Buells, you have to rejet... though my 00 Cyclone came from the factory way too rich, and the forcewinder just knocked it down to a little too rich (came with a 200 main jet, should probably have a 190 or 195 for my forcewinder and stock exhaust). You did not fill out your profile, so I don't know if you have a fuel injected bike or a carb model. If it is a carb bike, make sure the forcewinder vent bowl is big, and not just a slit. Aaron has lots of good info on that posted in the knowledge vault.   Bullit Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 01:54 pm:        i have a fuel injected,so how must i do it?   Buelliedan Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 03:15 pm:        You only have to reset your ecm if you run out of gas. Just changing an air filter or exhaust does not require anything special except taking it out for a ride. The computer will take care of the rest!! Now if you change ECMs then you have to take the bike to your dealer to have them reset the TPS with the scan tool.   Bullit Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 04:47 pm:        oke thanks man   Pj1 Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 02:54 pm:        I just received my new forcewinder and was wondering after I grind out the bowl vent, do I need to trim the gasket before installing.   Blake Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 01:46 am:        The hole in the gasket should not restrict the vent port. If that requires trimming, then yes, trim that sucker.   Bullit Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 03:33 pm:        my force leaks also(x1 2001)what can i do about this problem????   Bullit Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 02:13 pm:        have i need another ecm,when i use the forcewinder on the x1?or does the stock ecm the job?   Jim_Sb Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 12:26 am:        Very interesting info. re the Force... My '96 S2 has the stock (for CA) Edelbrock Qwiksilver II carb. I had to purchase a CV to Qwiksilver adapter from Edelbrock as the Force unit I purchased was for CV carbs. The Qwiksilver has 3 vents (2 for the bowl and one which I believe is for the enrichener circuit). The Edlebrock adapter had appropriate cutouts for these 3 vents (which are more like small half circles immediately adjacent to the carb intake). So... Anyone know if the Force units need modification for the Qwiksilver carb setup?   Loudx1 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 09:58 am:        I am looking for info on force setup. I have a 00 x1 with a force pipe, race ecu, power commander, stock box with k&n. I love the big stock box but I am wondering how much my performance will really increase if I get a forcewinder intake. Also, any info or dyno graphs from with / without baffle comparisons. I don't have one and don't want to lower the noise of the pipe but I may want the little torque. I never dyno tuned my bike yet because I use maps from net until I have the setup I want so I don't •••• all my money away dyno tuning when I buy a new part. Also, read my post in engine (the big stuff) I ran out of gas and my bike is running horrible.   Thunderbox Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 10:35 am:        You don't get much if anything going to the Forcewinder. You do get the sensation that you are faster because the noise is a lot more. The stock air filter system is a very good setup and flows air very well. The most cost effective improvement is to install a K & N filter in the stock air box. I know a lot of people will not agree with this but show us the proof. Just MHO   Reepicheep Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 10:38 am:        I run a forcewinder, and agree with you totally Thunderbox. It was a purely aesthetic (both looks and sound) upgrade for me. No significant performance change (for better or worse) as far as I can tell.   Andrewb Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 03:59 pm:        Don't forget Knee clearance too!!   Scabs101 Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 11:20 pm:        a dyna will not show hp increase on a "forced air" intake (sitting still-no wind being forced in)the hwy will b/c air is being forced in.}}   Thunderbox Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 09:29 am:        If you want the power to be on at high RPM and high speed 80+ then a Forcewinder will get you a couple of HP but where most people drive it loses power compared to the normal set up. Why didn't anyone do a dyno test with the stock breadbox installed?   Sflabuell Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 10:05 pm:        madstuka, not sure if you're still looking, but Marco Martinez just opened Champion Motorcycles in the north Miami area. I picked up his flyer at the Homestead-Miami races this weekend and it offers a free dyno to new customers, $30 value. Either way should be worthwhile. Anyone know the ISC guys, to get dyno printouts sent email?   Oldog Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 09:41 pm:        These are the numbers for my 2001 X1 box stock The test runs were on a dyno jet 150 chassis dyno at Carolina Coast HD Wilmington NC Correction Factor 0.98 Corrected Rear Wheel HP & Torque Engine Rpm, Ft Lbs, H.P. 2500, 64.1, 30.5 3000, 61.7, 35.3 3500, 57.4, 38.2 4000, 57.4, 43.9 4500, 60.5, 51.8 5000, 65.6, 62.5 5500, 70.4, 73.7 6000, 70.2, 80.2 6500, 66.4, 82.1 viewed on the PC screen not on printout Peak HP 82.4 @ 6750 rpm With the Force Winder & Super Trapp., latest rev of the stock Buell EFI unit Corrected Rear Wheel HP & Torque (factor .96) Engine Rpm, Ft Lbs, H.P.,Dif TQ,Dif HP 2500, 58.4, 27.8, -5.7 -2.7 3000, 66.4, 37.9, 4.7, 2.6 3500, 69.5, 46.3, 12.1, 8.1 4000, 66.3, 50.5, 8.9, 6.6 4500, 68.2, 58.5, 7.7, 6.7 5000, 71.0, 67.6, 5.4, 5.1 5500, 72.4, 75.8, 2 , 2.1 6000, 68.8, 78.6, -1.4, -1.6 6500, 67.5, 83.5, 1.1, 1.4 the HP & TQ are vs My stock data peak Hp gain 3hp up to 85.7Hp at 6750 (not expected) PC3 was not installed Nice gains 3000 to 5500 rpm with the "stock ECM" latest rev # is series "K" as Kelly @ CCHD tells me. (Message edited by oldog on March 17, 2005)   S3thunder Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 07:48 pm:        I have had my S3 equipped with a Forcewinder intake on a CV40 carb for over a year. The first shop set it up with a 50 idle jet and the 200 main. It ran fine up through 5500rpm. I was concerned about it running lean though and I modified the intake by grinding it out the best I could to look like the old style. Recently I went to Heavy Duty Cycles and had them tune it on their dyno. I am running the '98 Thunderstorm engine with Andrews N4 cams,a Two Brothers exhaust on stock header, and the Forcewinder intake. In order to get the mixture in a good range 12-14 they changed my idle to a 48 and drilled out my main to 212. I picked up 11 horsepower and now go to redline strong ! I only make 80 rwhp and 73 ftlb torque...seems weak but I can't really use more yet. Sorry I can't post the dyno chart yet, I need to get it scanned. Does this sound like we overcompensated for the Forcewinder intake on hogging out the jets? Is this horsepower on the low side for an engine rated stock at 101hp? Looking for guidance. Thanks   Italialaw Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 08:35 pm:        I have a mikuni hsr 42-11. I read the above posts concerning the bowl vent machined slot issue on CV carbs. I noticed the following statement in the above posts: "It (the machined slot) is not an issue with a Mikuni, as the bowl vents in a different place altogether." Could someone elaborate on this as I am considering purchasing a forcewinder and am paranoid about this float bowl vent issue. Thanks!   Blake Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 11:57 pm:        Italia, The Mikuni's float bowl breather circuit is not connected in any way to that breather hole in the Forcewinder intake, therefore it is not an issue. No worries for you.   Italialaw Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 03:27 pm:        Thanks Blake!   Phelan Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 07:01 pm:        This is the first I've heard of this.. I just got my Forcewinder about 6 months ago so I imagine it is the newer style. As soon as I get the chance I'm gonna take it off and check it out.

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