| Author | Message | ||
     Grndskpr |
There is one thing i would like to try, replace intake gaskets,but i need to know if there is a safe lub to use, one that makes it a little easier to replace the carb but dosnt destroy the rubber gaskets any ideas or preferences please ROger | ||
| Buellit |
Hey Grndskpr- I would try using either a dab of white lithium grease or a little bit of soapy water.....also my bike did the same thing and it still would(if I left the .45 in it) I am still running the stock 42 with a ,now, 200 main. My scoot runs fine. I would try replacing the 45 with the 42 and see if your problem goes away. You should be able to trouble shoot your way from there. I hope this helped. | ||
| Caboose |
If I remove my stock ECM, header, muffler and replace it with the race ECM, header and muffler (D&D full system to be more exact), will I be able to ride the bike before having the TPS scanalyzed and calibrated? My concern is that the throttle position sensor will be way out of calibration, the bike won't function, and I'll have to trailer it (so much for saving money by doing your own work) to the dealer in order to have to TPS adjusted. It's about a 45 minute ride. | ||
| Blake |
Ride conservatively to your dealer with the stock ECM, swap it when you get there and have the TPS set?  | ||
| Caboose |
Blake....what would I do without you! Simple advise and straight to the point. I'm a littled worried about running the bike in a lean condition. I've heard about headers glowing when aftermarket exhaust is used with the stock ECM? | ||
| Clydeglide |
Caboose, Orrrrr, ride your bike to the dealer, install ECM there (2 allen screws and 2 plugs I believe). Have TPS set. Take bike home and install header. Also become friends with sevice manager and techs. Donuts and Holiday "gifts" help. Clyde Never underestimate the power of a donut. PS Where is Fenwick? | ||
| Blake |
Clyde, that's even better! The sage voice of intelligence. How'd you get so durn smart anyway? | ||
| Caboose |
To get to Fenwick, take QEW west from "the Falls", exit at HWY 20. From the town of Thorold go under the Welland Canal, head toward the town of Fonthill. When you get to regional road 63 hang a left.....it takes you straight into Fenwick. Speaking of Fonthill, some of the best motorcycle roads in southern Ontario are right in this area. Effingham Road and RR #69 are some of my favorite twisties! Don't forget to stop by Clare's H-D / Buell, Stef and Mike are the service guru's out there. Next time your up this way give me a shout and we'll see how many bugs we can bust with our X1's! | ||
| Clydeglide |
Caboose, Thanks for the directions. I kinda know where that is but I don’t think I’ll be up that way anytime soon. I left NY 6 years ago and haven’t been back since nor do I plan to. Have you ever gone to that restaurant just south of the 401 on HWY 6? There are many. many interesting bikes there in the summer months. I’ve been told that there will be a bike there on a Sunday in winter if the roads are clear! Brrrrrrrrrr. Blake, I got smart by working your math formulas. Where’d I put that sliderule anyway? Clyde | ||
| Caboose |
I know the one your thinking of...just can't recall the name of the place. The most bikes you'll see in the winter time in this part of the world is in Port Dover. Every friday the 13th, rain or shine, snow or heat a few thousand bikers converge on this small town. Been doing so since 1982....its like a mini Bike Week! | ||
| Caboose |
We better start talking about carb's or DDFI before a board moderator gets pissed! | ||
| Jmartz |
Aaron: Do you think there is something to be gained by building up the race air filter backplate in order to eliminate the 3/8" rise to the "stack" and to make round those fat hexagonal stand offs? The rubber edge of the filter element is quite thick anyway. A machinist friend of mine turned down an extra set of those stand offs I had to .425 (they were .750 face to face) while keeping the end flares (of which only one side is needed). | ||
| Aaron |
That's an interesting thought, or pair of thoughts. Try it and report! It does seem bad how the venturi ring protrudes above the plate. | ||
| Doncasto |
Question: A while back (perhaps as far back as 1999) there was an intake seal upgrade that involved replacing the o-ring/metal bracket with a plastic one piece part. I suckered for it and found that the plastic became deformed to the point where the seal leaked. There was some discussion about a similar one piece upgrade being "in the works", this time with a metal flange to eliminate deformation. Did this ever happen? Anyone got the part number? I am getting ready to do a routine intake/exhaust track gasket replacement and would like to use the upgraded parts if they do in fact exist. TIA, Don | ||
| Blake |
Don: Yes the newest iteration is back to a metalic flange but with an improved seal material. I don't have the part #. | ||
| Schemky |
CV-40 Carb Quiz: I am in the process of revamping my CV-40. It has utilized a "Thunderslide" kit for the past two years. I recently hopped up my M2, and while researching the archives, discovered that the carb throat never opens fully with a Sportster 1200/883 Thunderslide kit. Stock HD applications don't require high end breathing, but my M2 will. I am going to follow the recommendations listed at the beginning of the forum. I have located an N65C needle in Shreveport, LA. Has anyone used this set-up with a warmed up engine combination? If so, did the N65C needle respond well? My M2 is presently starving in the mid-range. I will initailly tune on the street, then fine tune on the dyno. I just don't see spending $160.00 for the Buell Thunderslide kit part no. 8723, IF the recommended homebrewed combo will work well. | ||
| Blake |
I'm not sure what you mean when you say the carb throat doesn't open all the way. I think you are talking about the slide. The Thunderslide geometry is no different than the stock slide; it's just lighter and has supposedly an optimized air bleed hole diameter. You are on the right track though. Shimming the sportster needle can help fine tune things on a dyno. No need to ditch your Thunderslide. It probably does help improve throttle response, however slightly. Aaron, did I get that about right? | ||
| Schemky |
Blake, Thanks for attempting to poke a hole in my query. Carb throats don't in reality open, but are regluated by the slide, therefore controlling the area exposed within the "total" venturi. The Thunderslide kit, part number 8723, has an elevated carb top/housing, thus allowing the Thunderslide provided slide to fully open. Were you aware of this? Probably not. Check the archives for verification, or better yet, call Dynojet. There is no "geometry" relative to the Thunderslide, the slide appears to be longer than the original. If you have a constructive answer, please share it with me, otherwise give me a break. You shed no constructive light on my request. | ||
| Blake |
Schemky: Sigh... The carb is regulated not by the slide, but by the throttle plate. The slide works with the needle to control fuel flow and mixture based on the amount of air being drawn through the carb. It's the analog equivalent of an EFI system's intake pressure sensor and associated fuel control loop. Blake PS: If your Thunderslide kit is for a Sportster, you might want to install the proper spring prescribed by Dynojet for your M2. They ARE different. That's the only real difference between the various Sportster and Buell Thunderslide kits that I have seen. | ||
| Schemky |
Blake, Thanks for the carb 101 class. . . . . . | ||
| Blake |
Don't mention it Schemky. Glad to help. | ||
| S320002 |
Schemky, I have the Sportster TSlide kit in my non-Thunderstorm '97 S3. I don't recall the number of the needle but I do know it was for a Sporster. This kit was installed in '97 and Dynojet had not yet finished testing their Buell kit. The kit was installed and dyno tuned by Modesto HD/Buell. Bob White played with the timing as much as the jetting. Results were 79 ft/lb and 82 hp to the ground. Torque at 3,000 rpm went from 50 to 70 ft/lb and HP in the same range was up more then 12 over the stock numbers. Oh, I forgot to mention the stock 6,200 rpm ignition module was replaced by a higher reving Q curve Sportster module. Blake, A CV carb is regulated by the slide not the throttle plate. Think of it like a propane tank for home heating. No matter how far you open the tank valve the regulator still controls the gas flow. The throttle plate regulates initial air flow but not the carburation (fuel mixture). Greg | ||
| Blake |
Greg: Semantics. I was responding to Schemky's belief that "Carb throats don't in reality open, but are regluated by the slide, therefore controlling the area exposed within the "total" venturi." My point was that the carburator throat opening is controlled/regulated manually via the throttle NOT the slide. The mixture is partially controlled/regulated by the slide. Re your dyno results: It would have been interesting to know what performance you could have achieved by just dyno tuning (jetting and timing) your stock carb with the race ignition module. I think it is misleading to say that your Thunderslide installation netted you a 40% increase (70 versus 50 FT-LB) in performance at 3000 rpm. Your state of tune was obviously not optimum for the stock configuration. Sounds like you've got a REAL strong engine though! | ||
| S320002 |
Blake, Nothing is misleading about my post. Just stated the facts. If I had my own dyno, and Bobs experience, I could afford to make changes one step at a time just to see the results each individual change made. I think most people here know Buells, like most bikes, come from the factory with less than optimal performance. We can thank the EPA for that. My bike is the second California spec S3 built (thus S320002) and as such suffered more than most. Throttle plate vs. slide: My point was. There is no manual connection to pull the slide, which controls verturi opening, wide open. The slide is controled by vacuum. Whacking the manual connection to throttle plate wide open does not mean that the slide, thus the venturi, will imeadiately be wide open. Its like many of the old Holley 4 barrel carbs that have manual rather than vacuum operated secondaries and are a real bear to tune. The same is true of many manualy opperated carbs on motorcycles. ;-) Greg | ||
| Blake |
Greg: I can imagine that someone NOT intimately familiar with Buells might come away after reading yoru post thinking that the Dynojet kit was responsible for your 40% improvement in performance at 3000 rpm. That's what I meant by "misleading." I know you didn't intend for it to be so. As to the carburator, once again, bad semantics on my part. Let's see if we can put this to bed... Rather than saying that the slide "controls" the venturi opening, I'd rephrase to say that... The slide, the mobile component of a variable venturi, actuates the main fuel metering assembly thus directly regulating the amount of fuel provided to the engine at speeds above idle. It does this by opening/closing (raising/lowering) the tapered needle (a simple variable valve) in response to changes in air flow (sensed as vaccum). Actuated by the slide, the tapered needle directly adjusts the main fuel circuit's capacity as it is moved up/down by the slide. Air flow at a certain engine speed is directly controlled by the throttle plate. The slide is just along for the ride, simply responding to the airflow as a means to provide the correct amount of fuel. The slide assembly is designed to present minimal restriction to intake airflow. Like I said originally, the slide is the analog equivalent to an EFI system's intake manifold pressure (vaccum) sensor and fuel metering control loop. | ||
| Schemky |
Greg, Thanks for your input, you make an eloquent and valid point. The throttle plate of the CV-40 is very much like a 3310 series Holley (vacuum secondary) versus a manual slide Mikuni (Holley 6779 double pumper carb), of which I have tuned and raced both for years. Point is, I SIMPLY WANT SOMEONE TO RESPOND ABOUT THE N65C NEEDLE to keep me from wasting time and effort. Thank you for your verifiable dyno results utilizing the Thunderslide. A summary of Blake's response to my original post: supposedly. . . . . .probably. . . . . did I get that about right? | ||
| Blake |
Sorry Schemky, we lost sight of the forest for the dang trees. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question for sure. Hmmm, I've got an old Thunderslide kit for a '97 Cyclone. I'll pull the needle and compare it to stock as far as overall length and it's mounting geometry. If it's the same length/geometry, chances are that the N65C needle will benefit your setup as is, especially if you can get the correct spring. I think the Buell springs are a bit stiffer (less coils) than the Sportster kit springs. I've seen a good dyno tuner snip a coil from the stock spring and stretch it back to it's original length to achieve the same effect. Blake (goingtodigupthatoldThunderslidekit) | ||
| Jerome |
Schemky : it's maybe not the kind of response you expect but I'd recommend a flat-slide Mikuni HSR42... I was skeptic about this combo for a while because of the tendancy of manual slide carb to lean the mixture immediately after wacking the throttle, tendancy which is not always compensated by the accelerator pump. I've tried to tune my CV40 using an A/F ratio gauge on board the Buell. I must say that quite often the mixture from the CV40 was kind of funny to watch when riding... Kind of unpredictable... I didn't see any large difference when replacing the stock NOKK needle by the N65C. The only situation where I could tune well the CV40 was at wide open throttle over several seconds, situation where there's no difference between manual or vacuum slide actuation (except of course the length and shape of the venturi, no throttle plate disturbing the air flow on a manual slide carb).Tuning a manual slide carb is more instinctive and in fact I get excellent A/F ratio readings with the Mikuni at all rpm and throttle positions, playing with the slow jet, main jet, notch, slide profile and accelerator pump actuation. Something that I never reached with the CV. Plus : the Mikuni gives you this instant reaction when you wack the throttle ; very pleasant ! Of course the budget is twice the Thunderslide kit... And there's no "probably" or "maybe" on this point ! | ||
| Schemky |
CV-40 / Mikuni: Blake, thanks for coming back into the discussion, I apprecaite your input, sincerely. Seems the older I get, the less I know, therefore I seek help from others; I'm getting to old to struggle. Jerome, You inadvertently more than answered my question. I have been leaning, quite strongly, to the HSR-42, but did not mention this in my original post. I have not detected any real negatives toward the Mikuni, only that it is not as crisp as elevations rise, but my CV-40, due to decreasing air density, naturally suffers also. I REALLY wish you could have told me the N65C was a "magic bullet", but alas, reality as usual, rears its ugly head. Did the HSR-42 "fit" well, i.e., there were no concessions to make it fit? I know the newer units utilize the stock throttle cables. I am presently using a Force Sidwinder and like it. Thank you very much Jerome, you've done your homework!! | ||
| Jerome |
Schemky : glad to help. The HSR-42 fit was no real problem. Except that the stock throttle cables were too long (I was also told that they were supposed to fit, I don't know why I had this problem...) and I had to cut them and to put bicycles nuts at the end with a little bit of soldering. Although I took the shortest possible bicycle nuts, one of them touched the front cylinder head cover over the full throttle course. So I had to slightly machine the head (with a manual groove), removing a very small amount of aluminium. Apart from that, no problem. You should enjoy it as well as I enjoy it. I will never go back to the CV40 ! |
