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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Engine » Valvetrain: Cams, Lifters, Pushrods, Rockerbox, Valves, Springs, Guides, Seals, Retainers, Seats « Previous Next »

Had a good blend job lately?

Here's where we jabber about...

cams
followers
tappets
lifters
pushrods
rockers/rockerboxes
valves
springs
retainers

There may be a quiz. Who knows what lift, duration, overlap, and a "blend" job actually mean?

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  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
1997 M2 Top End ClatterDarkhorse07-27-20  07:14 pm
Buell noise? Anyone?Darkhorse62 07-21-20  08:46 pm
Shouldn't this be turning?Livers09-08-17  04:01 pm
Valve clearance when reinstalling rockerboxGripperod08-20-17  05:55 pm
Top-end rebuilt... break inHomie12 12-03-16  05:11 pm
Installing valve guide sealsMighty_mouse05-25-16  10:00 pm
XB12X top end part information neededReepicheep04-26-16  05:16 pm
Oil pump upgrade or retro fitAirdale05-08-15  03:58 pm
At my wits end.Shaggster05-07-15  12:17 am
Gooey combustion chambersReepicheep22 09-10-14  03:38 pm
N4 or SE 497 camsReepicheep08-01-14  09:24 am
Lifter compatibilityReepicheep05-20-14  08:42 pm
Basic question about liftersReepicheep05-16-14  08:21 am
Now i did itShag949904-29-14  12:47 am
Buell Rocker Box Gaskets: History, Evolution, Dates & Part Numbers
Everything you ever wanted to know about the evolution of Buell Rocker Box Gaskets
Jim216 04-21-14  08:12 pm
Ulysses pushrods, lifters non OEM recommendations wantedSteveford05-22-13  07:46 pm
1st engine rotation, leaking rockerbox & dead fanSchwara05-05-13  11:50 am
New to Buell/HD engine...valve/lash noise??!?Arods_blast04-10-13  04:30 pm
Buell XB cam bushing helpBuellx1innh03-02-12  07:27 pm
Hollow camsPanic02-10-12  04:46 pm
Valve lash?Ripdog2809-16-11  10:23 pm
Leaking Pushrod Covers (top, not bottom)Rudy06-26-11  03:56 pm
Bottom rockerbox fastener brokeBuell_bert06-18-11  11:36 pm
Warped Rocker Box / CoverBottlefedbuell05-01-11  04:04 pm
OOPS!!Rho_13804-17-11  11:55 pm
Lining up cams 97 M2Willydac5003-25-11  09:12 pm
New Bueller...I hope.Rockjaw10-18-10  01:31 pm
M2 cams in an X1Bluzm209-26-10  12:49 am
Cam I.D. ?273409-08-10  10:18 am
Replacing lifters - which to use?Pammy08-28-10  10:02 am
Rocker Cover Gasket ReplaceNallac10 06-27-10  06:40 am
How did my 05 9sx manage to run for 30k miles?Livers10 05-06-10  05:44 pm
Another pushrod base leakD_bag12 04-14-10  06:07 pm
Xb12 liftersLanretsr03-23-10  11:13 pm
Anoisy cams?Ztferrari12 03-17-10  11:02 pm
Lifters bled down from hauling X-country in a trailer?Billybob03-10-10  11:15 pm
09 1125R abnormal engine noiseLostsumwhere02-07-10  03:41 am
Bent push rod.Kgh_racing11-17-09  10:24 pm
Beehive springsNewxb12ss12 11-01-09  03:11 pm
08 performance cams?Newxb12ss10 11-01-09  03:00 pm
Primary gasket replacementPrior08-30-09  10:26 pm
R&R cam cover without distubring top end?Blake08-22-09  06:44 pm
2001 cam coverBluzm206-15-09  10:30 pm
Andrews N4 grindKdkerr206-15-09  06:02 pm
W grind cams in an M2?Kdkerr206-15-09  05:55 pm
Xb heads valve stemKdkerr206-15-09  11:32 am
Can valves be damaged from intake seal air leakFiresock05-08-09  06:44 pm
Xb9r camsDanielrg_usa04-26-09  11:43 pm
.551 cams in a tuber?Pkforbes8702-02-09  10:47 am
Loud tapping from front right after work done.Buelltuner12-17-08  08:48 am
Andrews N4 cam and idle speedBuell7875811-15-08  10:42 am
To Cam or Not to Cam?Xldevil15 11-06-08  07:34 am
New guy with a clicking BlastJetlee18 10-22-08  06:01 pm
Measuring Lifters?Kusskid7609-26-08  10:34 pm
Xb rockerbox Kyrocket09-23-08  05:20 pm
Valve sizeBuell9er09-14-08  09:46 pm
Sportster cam side engine cover and buell???Jmr128307-28-08  07:10 pm
Valve train noise, how much is too much?Bombardier06-05-08  01:49 am
Bad Lifters?Puddlepirate05-27-08  06:41 am
Installing new pinion gear.Sportyeric13 02-14-08  01:49 am
Manganese/Bronze Valve GuidesV7414 02-03-08  12:13 pm
Cam cover removal and replacementReepicheep01-29-08  12:00 pm
Pushrod base removalDjkaplan12-17-07  02:14 pm
Valve Guide SealsAlessio66xb12r11-21-07  04:32 pm
Rockerbox gasket questionBlake10-31-07  05:52 pm
Valve spring helpSteveshakeshaft09-21-07  12:21 pm
Anybody Know of a rockerbox gasket WITHOUT the breather holeBobpaul08-29-07  08:05 pm
07 XB12 rear rocker cover leakCringblast06-28-07  03:21 pm
Cam question; 9 vs 12Old_man06-05-07  12:26 am
Any good tests to check for bent/broken valves or bad head gasket?Blake05-24-07  03:33 pm
What lifters to use on my 98M2Richardm205-14-07  03:50 pm
PushrodsDjkaplan13 03-19-07  10:24 am
XB flywheel timing mark(s) & cam timingReepicheep10 03-14-07  06:29 pm
Buell pushrodsBluzm203-10-07  12:15 pm
20K miles, replace valve springs?Littlebuggles02-15-07  10:42 pm
Valve spring questionXldevil12-03-06  04:12 am
Exact Lifter SizeJkhawaii11-21-06  10:55 pm
Oil Pump worm gears FAILUREJackbequick17 11-21-06  08:25 pm
Stuttering after running out of gas FI X1Naustin11-21-06  09:03 am
Performance mods to a 2000 M2Bigdog_tim10-25-06  02:03 am
Chrome pushrod tubesXldevil10-16-06  09:51 am
Minimalist cam swap procedure, M2Bomber09-21-06  11:11 am
SE 575 infoPammy13 09-19-06  09:06 am
Andrews pushrodsHippyjoe08-22-06  01:34 am
Please help: tappet bad i think...i dunno?Hippyjoe08-22-06  12:37 am
XB Rocker Covers on Tube FrameTripp58 08-19-06  03:53 pm
Swapping Heads and a bit of helpLeendert07-22-06  10:32 am
Aftermarket cams for XB9?T9r07-20-06  11:30 am
JVT [Jesel V-Twin]Runt1307-14-06  12:27 pm
NoiseCowtown11 06-05-06  05:27 pm
Se 536 cam noiseXldevil05-19-06  01:40 pm
Rockerbox Gasket Leak
The be all end all of rocker box leak diagnosis and repair.
Jackbequick40 05-16-06  04:14 pm
M2 camsXldevil04-18-06  09:18 am
Cam cover swapHalo03-31-06  09:43 am
5 angle valve job??M1combat15 03-16-06  04:25 pm
How to adjust or check adjustable push rods?Wman17 02-09-06  06:25 pm
Cam needle bearings?Buelldyno_guy21 12-31-05  04:10 am
How to tell if a lifter is bad?Ryker7712-30-05  05:00 pm
Xb valves in t,storm headsHobanbrothers12-28-05  01:04 pm
Umbrella valves in the rocker boxBomber11 11-28-05  11:20 am
Camshafts, Camshafts, Camshafts - That is the Question?????Bob_thompson15 09-27-05  01:38 am
Andrew CamsBob_thompson09-27-05  01:29 am
Beryllium-Copper Valve Seats?Blake25 09-07-05  11:16 am
How long did your lifters last?Buellistic09-06-05  03:06 pm
Cam gear whineRick_a08-10-05  04:37 pm
S&S CamsRick_a07-19-05  01:27 pm
Adjustable Push Rod CoversTripp07-11-05  02:17 pm
Lifter Install and Part NumberX1natural05-15-05  10:19 pm
S.e. adjustable pushrodsBud05-07-05  02:28 pm
Andrews or Red Shift Cams???Blake16 04-17-05  07:34 pm
Push rod tube seals ,,again2000m203-20-05  01:30 pm
TappingSportyeric02-08-05  02:40 am
TappitsAaomy18 01-31-05  07:14 pm
XB steel rocker gaskets...Captainkirk10-12-04  11:03 pm
Cam timingBluelightning10-12-04  10:54 pm
How much oil in the Rocker Boxes??Bluelightning10-07-04  04:09 pm
Feuling LiftersBluelightning07-08-04  11:58 am
Performance Upgardes-97 M2Blake03-21-04  04:02 pm
Oil Leak, No Part # in Part CatalogLago88810 03-07-04  02:48 pm
HELP57sporty13 02-17-04  08:16 pm
Called Andrews Rippin01-25-04  11:40 am
W grind cams in an M2?Cliffb01-07-04  01:16 am
Cam IdentificationJulianshog12-11-03  10:11 am
Cam Cover replacementFullpower12-01-03  05:23 pm
HCR camsBgbrd08-30-03  11:13 am
Valve Guides and Stem Seals Part number check?Steveshakeshaft07-31-03  10:58 am
Lower rocker box installationRookie07-19-03  01:28 pm
Internal engine coatingsFlapjack22 07-18-03  08:26 am
Valve lapping?Jmartz07-11-03  09:05 am
Archive through March 18, 2003Bigun28330 03-18-03  08:49 pm
Archive through February 19, 2003Blake30 02-19-03  04:27 pm
Archive through January 23, 2003Aaron30 01-23-03  02:15 am
Archive through August 29, 2002Axtell30 08-29-02  11:22 am
Archive through July 17, 2002Aaron33 07-17-02  03:53 pm
Archive through June 06, 2002Jmartz30 06-06-02  02:32 pm
Archive through April 30, 2002Radon3030 04-30-02  12:46 am
Archive through February 19, 2002Chrism30 02-19-02  06:29 am
Archive through January 23, 2002Jmartz30 01-23-02  09:38 am
  Start New Thread        

Author Message
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Are you talking about the gearcase cover gasket?
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Aaron
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I suspect he's talking about the seal that goes around the #2 cam, under the timing cover.

I've never used a press to put one in, it's just a seal. I use a seal driver or a big socket.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

For what it's worth to others (as Bigun already pulled the seal), but the 2000 M2 service manual says just inspect it, and only replace it if it appears worn or shows signs of leaking oil.

Bill "learning all sorts of cool stuff about that side of the engine"
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Kenb
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was clumsy enough to lose an upper valve spring collar when removing one of the valves from the head. Can anybody help me with a part number for the upper valve spring collar for a 96 S1 Lightning ? My service manual does not include part numbers and my dealer didn't have a manual that went back to 96 but said he would order it if I gave him a PN. Thanks a million. Ken
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Rall
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Kenb
The part # for COLLAR, valve spring- upper is 18219-83 must be an old part # from a sportster.
Mark
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Kenb
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 07:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks
Ken
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Jmartz
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 08:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

AAron:

These new hollow stem valves, are they opened on the top where the rocker pushes them opened?

I am curious to know how they are made. Someone on this page alerted me to the fact that low end (factory Buell) valves have the stem welded to the "hat" portion.

I recently purchased new exhaust valves for my thunderstorm heads and noticed they were steeper on the backside rise to the stem and had a "step" or discontinuity that seemed indicative of an "addition".
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Aaron
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No, there's no external indication that they're hollow, except the fact that they're noticeably lighter. Hold one of these in one hand and a Ti valve in the other hand and it's really hard to tell them apart.

I'll be honest with you, I don't know how they're made, although I'm sure I could find out.
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Jmartz
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Its too bad you just released these. My motor has less than 500 miles since a modest top end refreshment.
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Aaron
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 10:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, if it's any consolation, we've only announced them, they haven't been released. My guess is another 6-8 weeks.
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Jmartz
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll try my hardest to wear out the top end as quickly as possible.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You know JM, it's a good thing I know what you are talking about or that comment might get moved to the "R" page.
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Pammy
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 08:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The 2002 L6 Corvette came stock with hollow stem valves as well as 'beehive valve springs'. Also available are hollow stem/head valves.
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Pammy
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That is an LS6....I gotta learn to type
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Hans
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jmartz: Since long I am curious how they get the fluid sodium into the valves of the Alfa Romeo car engines. Since I saw the making of a cherry bonbon on TV I have a clue: An upside down chocolate cup is filled with the cherry and fluid and the bottom is "welded" on.
Hans
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Reepicheep
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just migrating some gems on 2000 Cyclone cams into the knowledge vault where it belongs.

The story is that I pulled my 2000 M2 Cyclone gearcase off to replace a worn oil pump drive gear. While in there, it was obvious the number 4 (front exhaust) cam was badly damaged, likely just a bad part to start with (IMHO).

If you try and order a single cam for a 2000 Cyclone, they will tell you that you can't, and that you instead have to order a whole cam set (the new louder high contact ratio cams).

This is all a result of the fact that imprecise cams are noisy cams, and that I suspect some half century old machine at some harley plant that is cranking out sportster cases can't hold a good tolerance, and would be too expensive to replace. Instead, they used to machine the cams different sizes, and measure the cases to know what size gears to have on the cams inserted. Eventually, after 2000, somebody somebody finally slapped their foreheads and decided to redesign the cam gears so tolerance is not so critical.

Anyway, in 1999, the Cyclone cams were all plane jane sporster cams. In 2000, the #1, #3, and #4 cams were normal sportster cams, but the #2 cam had a different gear cut into it. This gear can be swapped between a normal cam, Aaron has done it, but it is work for a pro. I think the 2001 and up cams are the new high contact ratio ones, and so should be easy find a replacement for (one size fits all). I think the lightnings also use the new HCR cams, but I don't know when they started.

So, to make a long story longer, if you have a bad cam on a 2000 Cyclone, and if it is NOT the #2 cam, you can simply order the replacement cam from the 99 parts book, but make sure you get the right color code. A black dot #4 cam was in stock at the factory and at my dealers counter for $65, which is much better then the $400 for the HCR cams, or even the $300 for screaming eagle replacement cams. No idea why the high performance cams are cheaper then the stock replacement parts....

So a huge thanks to Aaron, who told me this little tip, and to Pammy and Peter and all the others with such good help on the quick board topics. I am including choice quotes below, just so they don't roll out of existence when the quick board topic expires.

Bill


Quote:

Peter said: If that is a 'D' grind (it will be stamped on the lobe with a number), then it will also have a colour on it. If you are able to buy the single cam, try to get the same colour. If you can't, then go smaller in gear size colour, not bigger.
(big) black, yellow, green, white, red, blue, brown (small)

If it has '15' stamped on the lobe with another number, then you have X1 cams which are what we get in M2's in Europe. They don't have different sizes so you don't need to worry about sizing. They're just noisy.





Quote:

Aaron said: Hey Bill ... this is a 2000 model M2?

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but looking at my '00-'01 parts book, they don't list separate cams. You have to buy a whole set of 25193-00A.

That part number is the "high contact ratio" set, meaning that it's got a different tooth pitch from '99 and earlier cams. They don't have to be fitted to each individual motor the way the old ones did, it's one size fits all.

By comparison, in a '99 and older bike you could buy individual "D" cams and each cam gear was available in 7 different sizes, except the #2 cam which was available in 49 different sizes since it has 2 gears. Also there were 7 different sizes of pinion gears, the new HCR cams again have only one size pinion gear. The number of different possible combinations in a '99 or older motor is mind boggling.

Now, you really want to get confused? I'm not at all sure your motor is fully high contact ratio now. I believe 2000 was a transition year, and only the pinion to #2 connection is HCR, and they didn't go HCR across the board until '01. My guess is that your pinion connection has a noticeably finer tooth pitch than the other connections, no?

The *easy* thing to do is to just buy a new set of cams, but it may be possible to change just one, if this hunch is correct.

Which cam is it that shows the wear?

If it's #1, 3, or 4, and it's not HCR, you *may* be able to buy the individual cam. Give me the color code and I'll look up the number and we'll find out if it's been discontinued. Sometimes they discontinue out-of-production parts if they have an alternate service solution, which they do in this case, they can make people buy a whole set of HCR cams.

If it's #2, that bastard 2000 cam with an HCR drive gear and a coarse tooth gear for connecting to the adjacent cams is not available individually. However, notice how the HCR drive gear is just pressed on there. It's not difficult to remove that gear and move it to a new #2 cam, I've done it many times, I'll even do it for you if you send me the stuff. Again, let me know the color code on the current #2 cam and I'll look up the number.





Quote:

And Aaron later said (God bless him!): 25666-91 - cam gear, front exhaust, black

A little birdie told me about that awhile back. I've had 2 other 2000 model motors open and they both were that way, HCR on the pinion connection and the old style gear cut between the cams. So I had reason to believe yours was probably that way, too, it was more than just a hunch.

The XB has high contact ratio just like the 01-02's, so there's no fitting. Yours is the last year of that cam fitting stuff.

I've been told that the old style cam gear teeth is a stronger setup, I have no idea if that's true or not though. I haven't seen widespread failures of the HCR's so I'm skeptical. Obviously each tooth is stronger in the old design but you've got more teeth engaging with the HCR, right? Blake could probably do the math for us

Be forewarned, that part number I gave you is out of the '99 parts book. But if my understanding of what-they-changed-when is correct, and I believe it is, it'll go right into your motor. Just be aware that if you ever have to replace your #2 cam with a '99 model, you'll have to move that drive gear from your old cam to the new one. But it ain't hard to do.




Thanks everybody, this is an amazing place!

Bill
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Bbd
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 09:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i have a question about JIM,s hydrosolid tappets. are they as good as the zodiac catalog says?in there it says that about 5500 rpm it becomes a solid,adding about 3 to 6 more useable horsepower.this is a fantastic gain-if true.anyone out there have any proof-dyno or seat of pants.also the S.E hydrosolids[for 1340s]says that they are designed for use in high rpm[greater than 6500]application and require adjustable pushrods,no mention of horsepower gains,do the JIM,s hydrosolids require adjustable pushrods if i put them in my 99 M2?
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Sarodude
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Camz...

1) Generally speaking, are Buell cams (especially the stock XB cams) symmetrical? Do they ramp up and down the same? Does this make sense?

2) Could a rear exhaust cam be pressed out of the gear and pressed into another gear and used in the front? Any warnings or words of advice?

-Saro
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S1joel
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Will any XL cam cover fit my 97 S1? I am looking at a used one from a 99 Sportster. Part # 25230-95. Thanks for your help.

Joel
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Benm2
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Actually, its mostly copper. C172 Alloy

Co: 0.2-0.5
Be: 1.8-2.1
Ni 0.2-0.5
Remainder Copper

Just enough Be to give it good properties.
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Funjimmy
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

S1joel

Yes that XL cam cover will fit your 97 S1 perfectly. All Buell and Sportster engines are pretty much the same except the obvoius (cams, flywheels etc.)up until the redesign in approx 2001.

FunJimmy
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