| Author | Message | ||
     Tank_bueller |
Not 100% on the Monday thing yet. They likely won't open registration until June/July time frame. I'll let you know when I know more. But if I'm there, I'll be lookin' for ya! Tank | ||
| Spops |
Hey Gang! Thanks to Peter for pointing me to this thread on VIR! I signed up as soon as I got the email from Buell. =) Not sure who else is going from our Tri-area? Haven't heard from Jose, Paul, et al... I'll promote it at the next Ft. Wash gathering. Thanks for the Hotel link, I was wondering where to stay and count me in as part of the pit! Looking forward to it... BTW, it's Paul's 50th B-Day on 5 April. He's planning a quite thing by himself, I say we surprise him with an entourage of Buellers at his door... Any takers? =) Ride Safe! SpOps (Sebastian) '03 XB9S(T) | ||
| Babired |
Hey Tank I teach Rider's Edge for Annapolis HD and Motorcycle safety for Howard County community college. This is my 10th year teaching so I'm an old F$%^#@ I did Battle Trax training in 2002 with Reg Kitterell and almost became SSMT advanced trainer....until they sprung they $800.00 training manual fee on me  Done a lot of other things for women in motorcycling through the years. | ||
| Babired |
going back to the DC, MD, and Pa thread for an important motorcycle safety message, No joking  | ||
| Babired |
Hey I didn't scare anybody did I? I was asked which track we were doing the track day on North or South. I have a friend who races an R6 and an SV and I think he might want to tag along. K | ||
| Tank_bueller |
It takes more than the likes of....(oh nevermind)  I sent the dude an e-mail a couple weeks ago asking which course, but I got no response. I would guess either north or full? but I have no idea.  Tank | ||
| Blublak |
According to the website, we're riding FULL. .. I sent them a note asking them to change it to .. 'Grand East' .. if possible.. but I don't think they are going to do that, since that's the longest course with the most turns and elevation changes.. oh well.. Sorry it took so long for me to respond, but I've been out of country and away from computers and what not for a while.. I'm back now.. Had a riot.. and I'm still peeling .. all over..  | ||
| Tank_bueller |
Glad you had a good time! I looked high and low on their site and couldn't find any mention of which course? And I noticed that it still is not on the schedule at the VIR website. | ||
| Blublak |
 Hey All! I just got a note from PTT (Private Track Time) and they say we're not going to run VIR Full after all. They ahve decided to keep us on 'North'  ! This is the same course that AMA and CCS/ASRA - WERA run!  It's a great track (as stated above) and since I (and some of the rest of us) know it already, trust me,  it'll have some tricky parts and only the one LONNNNnnnnGGGggggg  straight away for you to run WFO on. So far, there is a smallish group of us pitting together..  Now, who's going to be added to that list? Come on now.. you know you want to go to this.. You do.. So sign up and sound off here!  | ||
| Tank_bueller |
They have decided to keep us on 'North'   That's Awesome! Great news for us and our "top speed challenged" Buells.(I need to work on turn 7 anyway) See ya'll in the pits! p.s. Anyone know if they are going to allow trailer drops the night before???? (Message edited by tank_bueller on April 20, 2007) | ||
| Blublak |
I'm not really sure. There is something going on Tuesday and if whoever it is doesn't want folks wandering around, then they will not. Since I've got a 'working' relationship with VIR, I'll ask them to forward the request to whoever has the track and we'll see what they say. Oh, and everyone needs work on Turn 7. | ||
| Tank_bueller |
A working relationship??? Sounds like unfair treatment, unless you can hook us up too!  just kiddin When I was there before, they let us in after about 5:30 or 6pm(can't remember exactly), after most of the days participants had departed. But we had to be out by like 6:30-7. Plenty of time to drop a trailer and BS for a bit. I have a great pic of sunrise from the north paddock...see if I can find it. Tank | ||
| Tank_bueller |
 | ||
| Blublak |
Nice Shot! Remind me to bring the 'vacation' pics and I'll show ya a couple more neat sunset pics.. | ||
| Tank_bueller |
Sooo... Bring the vacation pics. Is it too late to remind ya? | ||
| Buell2001b |
blueblack i sent you a pm, please let me know when you get it thanks bill | ||
| Blublak |
I got and replied already. Was the info helpful? Are you signed up yet? Sign up now .. before it's too late! It's gonna be a riot out there.. Can't wait for the rumble as all these Buells hit that track.. It's gonna sound like a Thunderbike race.. only it'll be US on the track.. | ||
| Mattl |
Thanks for directing me to this thread Blublak. I was trying to rustle up some interest on the C3 forum. If anyone from the Charlotte, NC area is going, hit me up. I'd be interested in trailer with someone. I'm a total newbie to trackdays, so any advice before and at the track would be GREATLY appreciated. I was just about to sign up for the event, and they have three options listed, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced. I'd say I'm a spirited street rider, but no track experience so I think I'll sign up for Novice. Any input from you all as far as are they going to limit me to certain speeds or anything being a novice? | ||
| Mattl |
Ahhh crap! Novice is sold out. Going for Intermediate ASAP. Hope I'm not getting in over my head! | ||
| Tank_bueller |
Matt, The main difference will be the gear required. Directly from the e-mail they sent when I signed up: ------------- Bike Preparation* Newer Tires with min. 80% Tread No loose parts, no leaks Mirrors, glass, lights must be taped or removed Chain should have slack, check owner's manual Bike will be inspected at track by PTT Advanced riders to remove antifreeze and run Water Wetter type coolant Rider Preparation* Well rested No alcohol or drugs Complete registration and legal waiver Riders behaving in an unsafe manner will be asked to leave No wheelies, stoppies, etc. allowed Required Gear: Full-fingered gloves. Over-ankle boots. Leather or heavy jacket. No nylon Chaps, leather, or Cordura pants. Full coverage helmet. Novice - Gear Requirements* Leather or heavy jacket. No nylon. Back Protector highly recommended Chaps, leather, or Cordura pants Reinforced synthetic riding suits acceptable Full-face coverage helmet Over-ankle Riding Boots Full-fingered gloves Intermediate and Advanced - Gear Requirements* One or two-piece leathers. Back Protector highly recommended Reinforced synthetic riding suits acceptable only if competion approved Full-face coverage helmet Over-ankle Riding Boots Full-fingered gloves ---------------- If you have never been on track, I'd say Novice is where you want to be. But I understand since it's sold out, PLUS the e-mail states that a rider may move to a different level if needed.  | ||
| Blublak |
Yeah, Not sure what the crowd will be like. But depending on how developed your skills are already, you may be alright in the intermediate (that's where I'm riding). The big thing for you will be to learn the track and it's quirks. If you've ever watched a race there, trust me, once you're on track it's another world. You're gonna love this track. Just make sure all your gear is (bike and personal) is solid and has no defects. Some tech inspection folks are really picky, others will let certain things slide. Also, remember that if you fail tech for any reason, you don't ride. You want to make sure the bike, gear and rider are in top form and ready to go. As for taping lens/glass etc. Buy the blue painters tape, it works well and doesn't fight you when you want to remove it (compared to duct or some other heavy tape). | ||
| Blublak |
Since there seems to be a few questions about this whole thing.. Here’s a few hints and thoughts on riding Virginia International Raceway – North Course – First, get a lot of rest the day before – You’re going to work a lot harder at riding each time you go out then you do when you’re on the street. Speeds will be higher simply because there are no restrictions on how fast you go. DON’T let yourself be seduced by the speed, if you do that right away, VIR will end you day in a hurry. While it may not look it, there are some very tricky turns on that track and getting them right takes a little time and a lot of practice and thought. Make sure you bring water. Even though they state there will be beverages and light snacks, you will want to be able to hydrate all day long and after a session or two, you will probably not want to be using up your ‘rest’ time humping around the paddock. DO make sure all your gear is good to go. Lids should be no more then 5 years old and if they carry the current SNELL rating then you know it’s good to go with the tech folks. Full leathers or at least a competition rated textile suit is best. If you have or have access too a back protector you will want to use it. I’ve seen a few guys decide they don’t need back protection only to regret it later. OK – lastly… get a track map. They are available at ClubVir.com and a few other places.. Once you’ve got it.. Come back to this post.. And follow along… A Lap of Virginia International Raceway – (please forgive me, I’m doing this from memory, not while running the track) The Main Straight – First off, the main straight.. Isn’t. This is a very long, very high speed (after you know it a little) WFO section of track. From Turn 17 to Turn 1 there is a slight bend to the track though, so you will want to run a ‘slight’ right lean down this part of the track. If you’re carrying a lot of speed, you will want to run it close to the tree at the flag tower (this means you’re running at an angle, not straight on down the track) doing this will help you be in a straight line as you come to… Turn 1. Turn One – This is a tight right hand hairpin turn. Coming off the high speeds of the straight you will want to work your way into it, it’s pretty flat so drop in from about ¾ or full track (riders left) and let yourself drift out a little through turn two (which is actually part of T-1 as we ride it) while it’s a pretty much standard apex turn, you can hit it a little earlier or later depending on your style, so you can get upright as you roll on the power heading into.. NASCAR Bend - It’s not really a turn; it’s a left hand ‘lean’ as you go into Turn-3. Most folks try to treat this as another turn and want to apex it right at the edge. I’ve found that you can do that and carry your speed to the far outside of Turn-3 and lean it in then or you can hit it about mid to ¾ track and make it and T-3 into a long sweeper. Which by the way is a lot easier to say then it is to do. This bend is increasing radius and can suck you into applying too much throttle, if this happens you have already blown T-3 without even getting there yet. Turn-3 Turn three is a hard left, (one of the few on the track) and is flat. You are entering a ‘close’ section where the surface isn’t as wide as it is on the main straight and you can feel it (especially if there are a few bikes there with you). You’ll want to (as I said above) either square it off by slicing through the bend at the apex, running out to the edge (riders right) and then heeling over hard to try and get as far inside as possible (think head over the grass tight) Or taking it as a single long sweeper. The second method may let you carry more speed, but the timing of your steering inputs in this section is vital, too late and you’re in the dirt outside of the turn, too early and you’re in the dirt on the inside of the track. Start with the ‘square’ version first until you know what the turn(s) look like and decide if you want to try the sweep method or not. As you exit T-3 you’re on a short straight. Depending on how you took T-3 you will either be mid track of drifting out to riders right. This ends the first section of the course. Either way, you will want to pick a point at least ½ track or farther to the right for the dive into.. Turn-4 Turn four is one of those turns that screws people up all the time. It is a 90* right that is falling away slightly as the track drops a few feet in this section. Once again, you need to apex this pretty tight since there is only a split second of straight before you need to change directions again. The faster you are trying to make this turn, the more inside you will need to be. Since about midpoint on the straight section you will have to be starting your right turn into Turn-5. Be careful with T-4 since there is only a short run off on the right before you either hit dirt, Armco or the hill the track is cut into. Once again, take it easy your first few times through as this combination requires you to have the timing right as you gain speed through it. Turn-5 Turn-5 breaks hard right, and is down hill. A lot of people take it wide, trying to slice inside. There are at least three lines that work here, the fist is the wide line, after completing T-4 drift riders left and try to ‘sweep’ the turn. Second is to hold about mid track then cut in hard letting it drift out as you roll through the turn then make a minor correction to enter the next turn. Third is to run as tight inside as possible, holding the paint as you come into the turn then let the bike drift as you enter the next turn. Each method has its merits and its downfalls. First line – You are pushing the bike out as you clear T-4 since you’re trying to change direction in a very short amount of space. This method will keep you on the side of the tire the longest and therefore keep your speeds lower, however you may cut time since when executed correctly there is no mid turn correction needed and you can stay on the throttle prior to apex and try to carry more throttle on the switch to the next turn. Second line – Feels a little more natural on entry since if you made T-4 correctly, you should pretty much be center track already. Throw it over hard and power to the outside edge of the turn then roll off and tip it back towards the next bend. You can then power all the way out of the rest of the section. Down side is a little too aggressive on entry can run you off the edge and into the grass, a little too passive and you’ll have to make another correction to complete the turn and that will mean a lot more work on your part as well as the chance you will blow your entry into the next turn costing you a smooth line. Third line – Carries a ton of speed into the turn but really requires you to spend a lonnngg time on the edge of your tire, also paint is slippery and a miscue on your part will low side you pretty easily. On the back side of the turn, entering the next bend, you will have to roll off the gas so you don’t catapult yourself off track. On the other side, you need to take care to NOT run up on the curbing. VIR has the gatorback/tiger teeth curbing. If you go over the half way point, it can be quite jarring (I ended up with a puck on that part of the curb and it felt like my leg was being ripped out of its socket). Any way you take it, T-5 of feeds directly into … Turn-5a / 6 Turn 5a is really the start of a section they call ‘the snake’. Depending on the line you took entering T-5 you will have your attack already decided for you at 5a. The best way that I’ve found is to run almost onto the inside curbing then stand the bike up and get on the throttle. This (when done right) changes T-6/6a into a straight shot down to the next turn and ends this section of the track. Another line I’ve seen is to take the turn late, then climb up onto the curbing at six and hammer it straight out. Either way, as you exit you want to be aiming for the inside buttress of the bridge. Like the main straight, this one has a slight right hand bend too it so by aiming yourself a little inside you will naturally drift out setting yourself up for the entry to the next section.. Turn-7 Turn-7 is probably one of the prime signatures of this track. It is a 90* uphill right. There is a slight dip at the bottom of the hill (right about where you enter the turn) and the exit is blind. As you enter the turn, you can’t see where the track ends on the other side. You just have to know it’s there. Running about ¾ to full riders left (depending on how you exited the last section and where on the bridge abutment you aimed for) you will need to back down throw it over and power out. When done correctly, you’ll hold the inside for a moment at the bottom of the hill, apexing perhaps a little earlier then you’d think, but this will allow you to start standing the bike up as you climb the hill and go over the crest. Watch for the connection of the Patriot track because if you run onto it, it’s off camber and without a really quick correction your going to be sliding down hill or running into the grassy run off. If on approach you’re over cooking it, don’t panic, just go straight as there is room to run off and slow down on black top (where North and South connect) then turn around and wait for clear track to get back on. As you exit T-7 you want to let the bike run out away from the inside of the track so that you hit the next apex on riders left easily. Turn-8 /9 If you exit T-7 well, you can literally shave the apex of Turn-8 and stay on the gas all the way through Turn-9. Making this one of the easiest sections to ride. As you clear the apex of T-9 you may want to come off the gas a little as you can then sweep into the next turn. Turn-10/11/12/12a This section of turns, once you’ve swept T-10 (which is a slightly uphill left but is long enough for you to hold moderate speed through and start accelerating as soon as you’re at the apex. Then it’s a matter of rhythm as you finish climbing the hill through the rest of the turns. Normally, once you’ve gotten the timing down, you can really hold some speed through this section, just flicking it back and forth through the bends on your way to the top of the hill and the last section of the track.. Turn-14/14a First off, Turn-14 is a misnomer, on a bike you really don’t notice it that much, however, there is something important you need to know. On the outside (riders left) it is slightly off camber, falling away, if you push the front too hard trying to ‘slice’ T-14a you could find yourself low siding down the hill. Turn-14a is the start of what they call ‘the rollercoaster’. Come in on the dark patching (it’s pretty wide but if you run outside this I’ve seen some folks have problems there and loose it) I usually pick a tree on the other side an line up with that.. You can use your own method of course. Throw it over hard and make the down hill 90* right hander that starts the really big elevation drop. If you apex late it will screw up your hitting the next bend as since your going down hill now it compounds the difficulty in getting back online without too much drama. If you apex a little early that’s always preferable to late on this turn. As soon as you are exiting, start standing it up and rolling back onto the throttle then you can tip it over for.. Turn-15 As you enter this turn you are entering a longer sweeping gentle left. The trick here is not to coast through the bend at all, but keep your power on. This combined with the downhill drop and you can pick up a huge head of steam. Not bad and a lot of fun.. At least until you reach.. Turn-16 While on the maps it looks like there is more room between this and the next corner. It’s an illusion. You want to just enter this turn almost straight on, kind of skimming the apex so you can throw it over for the next and last/longest turn on the course. Be careful if you’re inside too far, it will blow your entry for the next turn and you’ll either bin it or run it off trying to make it. Remember, you still going down hill. Turn-17 Yes, this is the last turn and is actually divided giving it an ‘A’ part. But I’ll just consider it one turn. This is also the longest turn on the course, and could be taken as either a double apex or a single. Let’s look at the double first. Coming off T-16 you take a ‘natural’ apex and actually can run straight for a little before leaning it into the next part of the turn. Since the track is very wide at this point, there is lots of room for such a maneuver. You’re squaring off the first bend of the turn and running almost perpendicular to the flag station before tipping back over and putting your second apex about half the width of the track. This allows you to get on the gas just after you’ve passed the station and be at full throttle as you enter the main straight. By doing so you’ll be somewhere in the half track portion of the straight and able to hold a nice smooth line all the way to the flag tower. The single apex version means you spend more time on the sides of the tire, but has the benefit of letting you drift out naturally on the exit. You’ll enter the turn and hold hit, putting your apex just about the flag station and smoothly applying throttle all the way out. Like I said, the single apex version lets you drift all the way out to riders left, setting you up on the straight for a straight shot at the tree just behind the flag tower. Letting you make a more subtle bend out of the tracks curvature and carrying high speed all the way to mid / ¾ track at the 600ft braking marker. Now… do it again. I hope this helped some of the folks that have never been there before. There is a video of a lap of VIR North at http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=track s_vir So you can see some of what I’m talking about. | ||
| Babired |
You guys are giving me goose bumps!  K | ||
| Tank_bueller |
Wow, great write-up Pete! Almost felt like I was strafing through the corners with ya. Good stuff! Now I won'tbe able to sleep tonight. I'll be doing laps. One more thing... If you are on track following someone to learn the lines(friend/instructor/etc), Giving THUMBS-UP does not mean "all kewl". It means that you want to GO FASTER! (Message edited by Tank_Bueller on July 10, 2007) | ||
| Mattl |
That is an excellent write-up! I'll be reviewing that along with the track map. BTW, do they use a transponder system so you can review your laptimes and/or segment times? Do you all think a single set of brake pads and/or tires is enough for the day? I just got new tires, and will be doing pads soon, and was hoping they'd last through this event. Is that an unrealistic expectation? Also, I'm on an xb12s, and I've been trying to modify my riding stance a bit to be more "aggressive" for track riding. Do you think that is necessary? I normally ride very upright, and in turns really don't hang off the bike much, just tuck in a bit and make the bike lean as much as I need. For decent lap times, do I need to master the ol' knee drag kinda' style? Thanks again for everyone's feedback. VERY much looking forward to this! | ||
| Tank_bueller |
Blu... You suck I've been running through 4-5-5a and 15-16-17 in my brain all freakin' day. I admit, it's better than thinking about what I'm supposed to be doing, but it's still two months out. I am not a "fast" rider on the track, and I am totally not an instructor or teacher of any sort, but I will extend an offer to anyone who wants help. I'll lead or follow for a session or three and tell you what I see. My point is, Don't be afraid to ask for advice. The track is THE place to learn what a bike can do, safely. And most, if not all, of the folks that have been before will gladly help and give advise to the new-comers. No need to be afraid or nervous. Just ride your own ride.(or the demo bike ) | ||
| Blublak |
Matt, First off, one set of tires in good condition should serve you just fine. I actually get something like 5-6 full on track days out of a set of DCIII's. No Burn Outs or other tire abuse prior to the track day! You'll want at least 80% tires (some people want more)since the most important thing you'll want is GRIP! Track riding puts a lot of stress on a tire and you will generate a series of heat cycles in the tires (out for a session, in for two - repeat) so you have them heating and cooling a bunch of times by the end of the day, they will look like you've put them through the ringer and you don't want them 'going off' on you while you're our there.. That would be bad. The thing you really need to be careful about is how much damage you put on those tires between now and then. I know it sounds odd, but street use is more 'center tire' as opposed to heeling over into turns on a track. By the end of the track day, you'll feel as though you've leaned that bike farther over then you've ever gone before.. the last thing you want is to not be able to trust your tires & brakes. I don't think you need to get 'more aggressive' in your street riding, the track will bring it out of you without any help. What you do need to think about is how much of each brake you use when you do use them. If tires and brakes are worn down and not showing good amounts of surface, there is the good chance that you could fail tech. I've yet to have to change out a set of tires or pads to pass tech, however I've also never ridden with PTT (the people running this event for Buell) and they may be kind of strict about the requirements. If so, it's best to have the newest, least used rubber and pads as possible. Often, if I think I'm getting too close to worn, I'll change out. I use the adjustable brake (CRG's thanks Al) lever to help gauge my front pads. I have adjustments 1 - 6 on it. I usually start at 1 or 2 and when I reach 6 I take a hard look at them. Remember, pads that are fine for the street may not be up to the punishment of a day of hard track riding. The reverse is of course true. A new set of pads will always serve you better then old ones. As for the tires.. Well, the better riders know when they are going just by how they feel in the turns. Me, I use a combination of feel and looks. If the edges are really worn or they are starting to get slippery on me.. They get changed, no matter what the guys at the shop may say. Face it, the first ingredient here is how YOU feel about them. If you have no qualms, then you'll ride better. The minute you don't feel so good on those tires or brakes.. then it's time to get some that do feel right to you. Hope this helps some. Not knowing what sort of riding you do normally, I really can't judge your tires. But if you plan on using the same set that's on there now. Don't abuse them at all. Also, if they are cheaper tires, then you may be in for a world of hurt on the track. Always use the best gear you can afford. That's a rule for both bike and personal gear. Trust me, YOU are worth the investment. | ||
| Blublak |
Frank.. What on earth do you mean?  Hehehehe.. I've been there a bunch of times, both riding and photographing, so I've gotten a look at most of the lines around the course. As far as doing laps in you head, if it helps, I'm always doing it. I'm not a 'fast' rider either, at least not compared to some that I see out there all the time. But I'm not really working on 'fast' so much as SMOOTH.. fast is easy, just whack the throttle open and hand on.. (and pray).. but smooth, that requires some thought and practice, I've been told and from experience know that as you get smoother, the speed comes naturally. Don't push it and you'll find that a relaxed approach concentrating on smooth, even, light inputs will start to bring the speeds up. Once you've gotten around the track a few times in real life, you'll start to put it all together and see where and how each of the turns flows into the next. Then, smooth will become fast and that will let you work on smoother... and yes, smoother becomes faster .. and on and on.. Until.. well.. You're passing GSXR-600's in the corners because your smoother and maintaining more corner speed then a point and shoot rider.. | ||
| Blublak |
Oh and Matt asked about a beacon.. That's a good question. Usually at track days they will have a timing beacon, but not a transponder system (those things are a mint) I'll have to drop PTT a line and see which units they support (some beacons don't work with some timers etc.).. If I find out, I'll post up and let you know. | ||
| Mattl |
Loving the input Blublak! Thank you very much! I have Scorpion Syncs with 95% tread. Looking to get the Lyndall Gold Race pads for front and rear. Another question, for you. Do you think they'll have anyone at the track to do tire changes if necessary? I have a local bike shop that can sell me a complete set of Bridgestone Battlax BT014 tires (OEM on GSXRs?) for $120, so was thinking of buying a spare set and bringing them along. Not sure I'd want to waste track time getting tires mounted, but if I failed inspection, might be able to slap those on and then pass? I'll just try to take it real easy over the coming months and see what the tires look like come September. |
