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Buell Motorcycle Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through February 28, 2005 » Can a xb use a 190 rear tire? « Previous Next »

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Enduro261
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is a guy near where I live who is selling an almost brand new set of Bridestone Battlax BT010 for $75
(rear 190/55/ZR17 80% rubber)
(front 120/70/ZR17 90% rubber)

I see the front can work but what about the back. Has anyone used these tires and/or anyone have a 190 rear?
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Enp83
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 02:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't know if you can on XBs but I know ideally you don't want to (not as good of handling)...but I realize that's a pretty cheap price. Some of the best riders I know personally on new liter bikes change from their 190 to 180 for better handling. I don't know if I could tell the difference, but those guys are pretty damn good riders and know their stuff.
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Wambo
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 02:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That is the same thing I heard at my local bike shop that caters to the racing crowd locally. Apparently for the liter bikes, going with the 180 makes them easier to fall into a turn and be more responsive. Makes you wonder why they come with 190's from the factory, doesn't it?
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Enp83
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

wambo, so they can point to it and justify the $1,000+ price difference to squids?
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Vikingdave
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 06:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Keep in mind tire aspect ratios vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some 190's can be almost same width as others 180's. Best is to measure actual tire height and width. Tire shape and construction(hard v. soft etc..)also greatly effect handling characteristics.
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Cowboyup
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 06:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A 190 refers to the tires width in millimeters, so it is 10 millimeters wider than a 180. If it does not rub anything when mounted then it could be used. But remember that you are squeezing a larger tire on a smaller rim which could cause your rear ride height to increase, and also change the shape of the tire's curve.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 07:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

And just because a tire has 90% of its rubber does not mean it has 90% of its life. Age and heat cycles (read: track days) can "use" up a tire with little obvious damage to the tread.

Personally, I would be more interested in seeing if I can get 170's to replace my factory 180, but the 180's generally have a better selection and are more often in stock.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 07:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The wisdom of buying "cheap" tires, like cheap condoms, eludes me.

Buy the best rubber you can afford.

It's one thing to be "parsimonious" another to be cheap.

In addition, deviating from the tire spec'd for your bike makes you a test rider.

Please be patient and understanding when your insurance carrier denies your claim, unless you are capable of proving you knew more about motorcycle design than the folks who spent 2 years mating the tire to the bike and passing rigorous tests.

Don't get me wrong.... Iím not blasting you; I put a 190 on my S-1 for purely "cosmetic" reasons. Just understand the responsibility you are assuming.

My pet peeve is with the folks who think these bikes left the factory "partially engineered".

Court
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Court... if you could make some calls and find out if the 180's on the XB were a cosmetic peer pressure motivated thing, or primarily functionally motivated, that would be an interesting datapoint.

I ran both on my Cyclone, and liked the 170's better, but generally ended up with the 180's because they were a lot cheaper and in stock, and they were not that much worse.

It would be an interesting datapoint though.
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BadS1
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Reep the tubers had 5 inch rims so they were designed for the 170.You could put a 180 on them but it would change its sidewall profile.However the PM wheels were 5.5 inch so a 190 was capable to put on without the problem.The XB's can hold a 190 and it probably wouldn't slow it down much cause the rim size is much wider then in the past but the question is why??I have the M1's on my XB now after wearing out the Dunlops and by looking at them they look narrower then the Dunlops but the crown of the tire is much rounder so their turn in is way faster.Hope this helps.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I was actually thinking about trying to go down, not up. My XB9 is probably putting down 85 HP on a *good* day, so I think a 180 rear is way overkill.

If my 9sx would still be stable with a 170 instead of the 180, but turn in even better, I don't feel the need to impress my buddies with the size of my rear wheel.

(of course I am a chronic cheapskate, so if the 170's cost $10 more then the 180's, or had to be special ordered, I would just get the 180's).
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M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Someone here did some tests a while back and found that the standard XB Dunlop (the 180) was indeed closer to 190 than 180. It also had a fairly flat profile compared to most 180's.

Also, everyone that I have heard from that has switched to a 180 of ANY other brand, has been very happy with it. No more standing under breaking and MUCH better performance in the rain.

I kind of think that Buell chose the "wide" Dunlop 180 so they could deliver a bike that is very easy to ride, but if you change to a sharper profiled tire (still a 180 for insurance purposes) you could really bring the bike to life WRT handling.

If I had known how much difference Metzeler M1's would make when I put them on I would have swapped when I bought the bike.
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Glitch
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

M1combat is correct on all points given.

(Message edited by glitch on February 23, 2005)
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Crnrstr8nr
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

M1 you are right in that the Dunlops are some of the slowest steering tires ive ridden on. as to the width you will slow your steerin down by going wider. Although against the Dunlops 180 vs a Mich Pilot Power in a 190 you might not notice much diff. as the Mich's turn in much quicker. Of course tire choice as always is a matter of opinion.

P.S. And never buy used tires.

(Message edited by crnrstr8nr on February 23, 2005)
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Enp83
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Never say never? I bought a pair of "used" tires for my SV650 when the originals were worn out. The guy I bought 'em from just bought a brand new '03 SV650S to race, put 100-200 street miles on the stock D220s before taking them off and putting them up on ebay. I won the auction for $140 or $150 (no shipping costs or tax), he dropped 'em off a week after the auction as he was passing through KC on his way to race somewhere ... all nubs still on both tires : ) I know that might not be a common senario though...
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Ortegakid
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Have used(up)both sizes on my 9r, find the 180 to be better overall, 190 pinched when on our rim, cannot benefit from increased width,will fit 'tho.And I have used NOTHING but take offs (used tyres) for a long time now, best thing going for the price, as long as you know what you're buying!
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Starter
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When buying take offs I always get the ones that are blue and shiney cause they match my XB.
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Starter
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

To be serious for a moment, half decent sports touring rubber and a 180 is way over kill in my opinion in terms of rear grip, but just right for stability.
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Djkaplan
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Someone here did some tests a while back and found that the standard XB Dunlop (the 180) was indeed closer to 190 than 180. It also had a fairly flat profile compared to most 180's.


Dunlops off-the-shelf D208 170 is closer to a 180 also.
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You're trying to start stuff Starter... On multiple threads even...

A comment like that makes it painfully obvious that you have no idea what Buell is all about. Try getting to the edge of grip in a turn instead of a straight line. Trust me, a 180 is NOT overkill. It's BALANCE for when you're on the power and dragging your peg (which is what an XB is made for).
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Starter
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm dead serious (in everything but the shiney blue tyres post). These bikes (especially the 9) do not need a 180/55 rear for traction. PERIOD. Looks tough, the most common and available size, and slows turn in to counter act the chassis geometry BUT not there for side wall traction requirements. Power delivery is much too smooth and not nearly enough of it. BTW anyone who purchased an XB to ride in straight lines would feel ripped off.

If you really want to test ride your XBs tyre requirements, next time you do a track day borrow an SV650. I've ridden some seriously hot ex-race SVs that left my XB for dead at track days round corners and on the straight and even with the 160/60 rears on those bikes rear traction is more than ample for anything the engine can produce.
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Xb9rm
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 02:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

well I think all you guys are totally over analyzing this question, unless your riding on a track and are counting hundredths of seconds, who cares what tires your running?!? everybody has a different riding style and likes different setups, so unless you try it, you'll never know, personally I like phat tires, for some reason I get this false sense of unlimited traction when I throw a 240 into a hard corner, ya I'm sure you could corner twice as fast on a 160, but if your riding that hard on the street, you need to get on the track and really have fun, if your riding on a track, than tires arn't something your going to cheap out on.
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Johncr250
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Last tire change i switched to a 180 on my gsxr and it was much quicker to turn.

The downside it was that was much easier to spin the rear tire while accelerating and that almost sent me over the bars a few times.

Factory`s put alot of time in figuring out what size tires to use for a reason.
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Enp83
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I was at a dealership the other day and they had a few XBs on the floor includning one CityX. You can easily see the different profile between the D207s and CityX's tires. Both are 180/55s but the CityX's tires look narrower and taller in the center for the tread, while the D207s just look fat and flat.
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No_rice
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

my 03 xb9r has a 190/50 on it right now and it works great. a friend trashed his front tire and bought a whole new matched set for real cheap so he gave me the brand new 190 instead of running a miss matched set on his bike. my back tire was completely balled from nonstop spinning even when carrying the front tire. it works great! still can break it loose easy but no worse than the old one. i do not ride lightly and it has yet to throw off my handling. get them, run them, and ride, it'll work fine
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Trenchtractor
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 07:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here's an article i wrote when I first put the pilot power on...

http://www.themuell.com/article.php?id=13

The Dumblop was a lot wider than the Pilot Power, even though both were the same rated size...

I loved the pilot power them and I love it even more now...

5,500ks and my bike had been through 2 dumblops, one D207 and one D208. Now the Pilot Power have 2,700k's on them and they aren't even half used, the silica compond allows much faster warm up and they don't over heat, which I think is why they haven't worn out as quickly.

'but if your riding that hard on the street, you need to get on the track and really have fun'

Xb9rm, mate, you don't need to be riding hard to really enjoy a nice tyre, just because you take it easy doesn't mean you'll be satisfied with slow turning tyre set-up.

And remember, the wider your tyre the slicker it's going to feel in the wet.

Someone mentioned that manufacturers can spend ages trying to calculate teh right tyre... Well, think about this, the width of the rear tyre as compared to the width of the front tyre will dictate how the bikes geometry will change at the varying degrees of lean you might use...

Another interesting point to look at, are you using the front as much as the rear?? Some guys will have the entire rear being used, yet have 3/4 inch chicken strips on the front... This means the COMBINATION you are using may not be correct for you, or that you need to adjust your riding style...

For example, on my SM I had the wrong front. I went for a 110 so it would turn in fast. The rear was a 160. For the SM riding style the sizes were a missmatch and the bike felt vauge in certain situations. I was not using a lot of teh front tyre, half an inch, while using all the rear... What fixed it?? I went to a 120 front, all of a sudden I was using more tyre and the front felt planted all the time...

(Message edited by trenchtractor on February 27, 2005)
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