| Author | Message | ||
     Firebolt020283  |
yeppi this topic changed and got really boring..... yuck | ||
| M1combat  |
That's because the original topic was a no-go... | ||
| 99buellx1  |
I edited it, I must have hit the wrong button. The reset procedure is to ride around 3k, basically as long as you are in closed loop. (Message edited by 99buellx1 on February 04, 2005) | ||
| Anonymous |
Spatten1, We may not know how many current motorcycles pass '08 CA, but if you check you will find a vast majority right now using catalytic converters and/or air pumps to meet '04 CA and EuroII. And 2008 is much tougher than these. | ||
| Davegess |
"I find it quite remarkable that the old air cooled lump of a a sportster motor can do this", he says with his tongue firmly in his cheek. Actually I have a pretty good idea of how much of that 1957 XL motor lives in the XB motor and that would be be just about nothing. The same basic engine congfiguration sure but they have about as much in common as the flat twin in a 1957 BMW has with it modern counterpart. Most poeple do not realise just how much work went into making a modern engine that was able to be built on the Sportster assembly line. It was tons. By keeping it on that line; a totally new engine would require tens of millions of dollars in production line work; money that could be used to design a really cool bike. The XB motor is a marvel not only because it is so efficent, clean and powerful but also because it does the one thing thing that really, really good desing do; they don't reveal all the design that went into them. They work great but the also seem to have been a lot easier to do they they really where, sort of like Willie Mays in the outfield; he never seemed to try too hard to make the play but he always made the play. | ||
| Court |
>>>sort of like Willie Mays in the outfield See. There ya have it; the value of the internet. I always knew, confirmed by the CityX that the Buell motor was great. But, I never knew Willie Mays made a motor. Ya learn something everyday. As your young associate, I learn much from your stories of the past.  | ||
| Reepicheep  |
I finally got around to reading the letters in this months cycle world regarding the new MotoCyz (or whatever) C1. Most used it as a datapoint to express how dissapointed they were in Buell. It must really suck. Some *really* rich guy puts together a tribute to "function follows form" and makes a great big hot wheel. The bike looks really cool. The technology looks really cool. The designer talks really cool (to the NPR and country club set). They talk about all the cool things they are going to do with the bike. But you can't get one now. And the only "races" they have run are ones to the nearest motorcycle show, where their top speed is limited to how fast the teamster driver that unloads it to the truck will drive his forklift. All the "cool looking" technology is totally unproven and technically suspect. The bike has not even raced yet, has not even really had a good run in an artificially created and insulated test environment, much less demonstrated the ability to race, much less demonstrated the ability to be mass produced. All the guy has demonstrated so far is that he can spend a tremendous amount of money to make a very cool looking great big hot wheel. Meanwhile, some working stiff from Wisconsin who is unable to silence the great ideas in his head, and who is immersed in the "form follows function" looks at the parts he can beg, borrow, or steal, and starts putting them together into something new and better. Virtually from day one, they are already racing and on sale, duking it out on the track and open market. Getting bloody, getting smarter, getting better, getting tougher. 20 years later, every one of these parts originally begged and adapted has been re-engineered and reborn to do the job perfectly. No part of the bike does not have the mark and the touch of the sweaty guy in the garage wondering how he will make his next mortage payment, or the team he put together. Bikes sit in show rooms near you that has a list of features (braided stainless brake lines, radical geometry, fuel in frame, oil in swingarm, zero lash belt drive, underbike exhaust, ZTL perimeter brake, great power and great economy). These cool features were not added "so we have something to put in a marketing brochure next year" or added to feed somebodies ego, they were added because they *work*, and they work really well. All of this technology is available today (literally) to anyone who walks into any one of a hundred dealerships across the country, and costs less then a toyota tercel. So while Micheal Cyzz is showing just how fast rich guys can spend money, the elves at Buell are showing us how good a sport oriented street bike can work, day after day, week after week, commuting to work, strafing twisties, or taking to the track. While the C1 shows us how pretty absolutely unproven designs and technology can *look*, racers across the country are taking my street bike, adding less money to it then I spent on my last minivan, and finishing races on the same lap as the best bikes offered by the other factories. Well, the people writing to Cycle World may not get it, but we get it. Let me say it again, THANK YOU ELVES! While people go look at the C1 at the nearest motorcycle show, and write whiney letters to Cycle World, I will be out *riding* my XB9SX, and every part of it you labored over makes my ride GREAT. (Message edited by reepicheep on February 05, 2005) | ||
| Davegess |
Well Siad!! | ||
| Rubberdown  |
Reepi, really cool. Thanks for the post. | ||
| Geoffg  |
Reepi, I have yet to read the Cycle World letters you posted about, but I can imagine... Hey, Czysz has some good ideas, maybe even great ideas, on paper. And he has managed to translate them into a working bike (using heads, intake, and engine management from Suzuki). However, anyone who really thinks the MotoCzysz is gonna be available to the general public any time soon... Personally, I think he's going about it the right way, get the bike built and prove it (if he can) on the racetrack. Kinda like Britten did--but as successful as Britten was, his bike never did make it into production (of course, his death may have contributed to that!). I think Czysz will have his hands full getting the bike to the races, and proving it there--and until that's done, well there's not much point in debate. Perhaps, some years from now, Czysz will have its own band of devotees much as Buell does now, but this is now and that'll be...when? | ||
| Tucsonxb9s  |
I just read the Cycleworld article on this year Formula Extreme race effort and the letters regarding MotoCzysz. I thought the mag did a great job with the story and it sounded like they were impressed. A couple of the letters that addressed a disappointment with Buell I think are missing the point. Buell builds real bikes for the real world and now will be learning with their race program. MotoCzysz may make it racing...I actually hope he does well, but I doubt the reality of an affordable production machine with the same tech built in it. I also like the editor's note to one of the Buell naysayers: Careful, Nat, last time we looked, one of those "boat anchors" was making 135 horsepower and pushing 171. See Racewatch this issue. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Are all these letters in the recent Cycle World mag. for this month? | ||
| José_quiñones  |
March 05 MotoCzyzz is where EB was with his Barton powered RW750. At least EB had a more convenient series to race it until the AMA dropped the F1 Class. The only place this new bike can be raced is in MotoGP, which is like picking Mt. Everest as your first hiking trip.... A lot of "not invented here" sniping from the Buell faithful, he's just getting started, give him a little credit for getting this far. (Message edited by josé_quiñones on February 05, 2005) | ||
| Bigdaddy  |
Reepi, Well put. You sure don't write like a Geek-Brother -- most impressive. Thank you. Court, "Say hey?" Greg (Message edited by bigdaddy on February 05, 2005) | ||
| Anonymous |
Jose, Czyz is where EB was? I don't think so. Two big differences at the moment...the RW was not hyped, but was out there competing seriously before any story was written, and was the fastest thing in the class (although unreliable). It was also built out of a garage with tiny money, not contracted out with a million bucks. We'll see how Czyz does in MotoGP. Methinks it's a sportbike Excelsior-Henderson, a way to massage egos and suck money out of investors. Czyz can then write a big selling book on how the stars were against him. Reep, I'm with you. | ||
| Blake |
Reep, That is great. Please submit it to CW! I betcha it gets published. JQ, Something wrong with racing it in FUSA HWGP and ULGP? | ||
| Rubberdown |
I second the motion for Reepi to publish. | ||
| SouthernMarine  |
BRAVO Reep, BRAVO. I LOVE MY BUELL XB12R | ||
| Davegess |
Anon, you are too kind; I don't think he is as coldly calculating as the EH boys; he just has a really enormouos ego that needs this. José, you are mistaken. The RW was fast and fragile, on a shoestring budget. It was also a fairly conventional but well executed race bike not seeking to reinvent things just to tame a wild beast of a motorcycle. I'd respect the whole MC poject a lot more if they where out racing something before launching this attack on MotoGP, I doubt they will even be allowed to practice for Laguna much less start the race. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
wow nice writing reep. You should send that to cw. like yall said does any of that mess on that bike work at all? heck we can all vouch for the stuff on our buells working and working well if not better than the stuff on other bikes on the market. I may not know all this real techy stuff or have some kind of enginering degree or any of that mess, or even know much about some of the stuff that gets discussed on here but i do know how to ride a motorcycle and i do know that these buells are really fun to ride and are a better ride than any of the other sport bikes i have ridden. Personally i think that c1 or what ever it is looks like crap and i wouldnt own it to save my life. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Personally i think that c1 or what ever it is looks like crap and i wouldnt own it to save my life. Couldn't agree more with this statement. I'm not impressed with this paper launch bike. Everyone talks how great it is or is going to be yet I've yet to see anything. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Mr. Czysz mentions in the RRW article that he wanted to develop the bike longer before unveiling it, but that word of it was starting to get out via the internet and other places so he decided to go ahead and show it. That he is getting a lot of attention is either because he is a brilliant showman/marketer or there is an untapped market for a full blown no excuses US Superbike and that market is reacting to this bike.
Erik did it much more by himself with less money, that is true and a credit to him. It is obvious that the conditions they operated in were not identical, but they were/are at the beginning of their journeys, which is what I meant to convey by comparing EB with Mr. Czysz. Mr Czysz's path is probably more similar to the way Mr. Britten did it, not the Buell way. Mr. Czysz, like Mr Britten, had the ideas and assembled a group around him to get them created, developed and put on the track. Mr. Czysz is in the development stage at this point.
I Agree, we'll have to wait and see. | ||
| Aldaytona  |
HEY, motorcyclists are just like regular consumers. We all know consumers in this country are not the sharpest folks, (pet rocks, Vega, Indian, ect). We sometimes opt not to buy the STEAK, but buy the CZYZle.  | ||
| José_quiñones |
How about nobody will see it?  Of course he could race it in those classes, but he has not mentioned it yet in any of his interviews. | ||
| Court |
You guys don't even want to get me started on this. I've had two calls wanting me to broker a "MC/EB" summit. I'd not hang that albatross on a busy friend making my next motorcycle. Bill, you did it for me, I couldn't possible approach your eloquence or conviction. Mail it to Cycle World or I will. I hope you have no problem with it hanging on the wall in the Buell lunch room. With respect to the "Hey, Czysz has some good ideas, maybe even great ideas, on paper." I stand by what remains on of my favorite quotes to illustrate the "Wonder of Buell".
| ||
| Charlieboy6649  |
Reep, I love it. Well written. Please publish... People who dare to compare Buell to the C1 are totally missing it. You're right Brian. Court, that's a great quote! I know another one, "Put up or shut up!" From many a contest. | ||
| Odie  |
Reep, nice..... Al....I'll take the steak, medium rare please......."sizzle"  | ||
| Cataract2 |
God, just read that Cycle World opinion section. Man do people rip into Buell. | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
Reep, send it to Cycle World. That's as eloquent as it gets. | ||
| Spike  |
Reep, excellent work! Please send it in to CW, but with one correction- Please spell Michael correctly. Sorry, it's one of my pet peeves. Michael Luddy, Jr. '04 XB12R |
