| Author | Message | ||
     Milar |
I'm seeing 2004 XB12S's on Cycletrader for under $8000. Can this be right? Is Buell offering dealer rebates? If it's a come on, what should I expect to pay for a leftover XB12S? Mike | ||
| Slaughter  |
Right now is a bad time for the surviving "Real" Buell dealers as those getting out of the Buell business are dumping their bikes. | ||
| Daves  |
Yeah but at least when these crappy dealers are out of the business they can stop screwing the market up for all of us. Dealers and customers alike. | ||
| Buellgator  |
Preach on Dave  | ||
| Cataract2 |
From what I've been told my dealer near me will be keeping their Buell line. | ||
| Daves |
Milar, The ones I am seeing on cycle trader for under 8000.00 seem to be used ones. I didn't check every page. I have just bought 3 Buells from another dealer. I have 2 03 XB9S models. One black,one yellow Dave's "blow them out the door" price 6500.00 no frt or setup fees. I have one 04 XB12S, red Price 8500.00 no frt or setup fees. All of these are NEW bikes with full one(03) or two(04) year warranty. Dave daves@h-dappleton.com 1-866-757-1651 ask for Dave in the sales dept. | ||
| Joelber |
We as Buell owners should learn the valuable lessons of the H.D. family.. Don't cave on re-sale and we will keep our re-sale value, high, if we ever decide to sell or up-grade..Personally, I have the best 99x1-baby, crossroads intake, factory race kit..The mali-air really opens up the top end for those interested........ | ||
| Signguy |
"Yeah but at least when these crappy dealers are out of the business they can stop screwing the market up for all of us. Dealers and customers alike." "I have just bought 3 Buells from another dealer. I have 2 03 XB9S models. One black,one yellow Dave's "blow them out the door" price 6500.00 no frt or setup fees. I have one 04 XB12S, red Price 8500.00 no frt or setup fees." Its deals like these that screw up the market. What is a 2003 XB9S worth on the used market? | ||
| Cataract2 |
So far my dealer has kept me pleased. They just got a Blast in and have some more on the way. I'm hoping when they open the new store in Palm Bay they will carry more Buell items. Least, the store owner mentioned that they've got a revived interest in their Buell line. More people have been asking about them. | ||
| Daves |
Just trying to weather the storm Signguy. A 03 XB9S is worth about 5500.00 on trade with me, depending on mileage and condition. There are plenty of dealers out there selling for this type of price. What am I supposed to do? Wait until they are worth even less? What would you do to solve the problem? I figure that people might as well get them from me at these prices than deal with other dealers that are bailing on Buell and will offer little or nothing in the future. I got these bikes in a "package" deal with some HDs that we needed so I can offer a low price on these. Let's face it, the 03s are 2 years old, they need to go! So I wanted to offer my friends on Badweb a deal! | ||
| Signguy |
What storm? There are plenty of dealers out there selling for this type of price. I'm don't mean to single you out. I am aware of the other dealers and Ebay deals. What am I supposed to do? I don't know. You brought them into inventory. Wait until they are worth even less? I don't know. You brought them into inventory. What would you do to solve the problem? I wouldn't have brought them into inventory.  | ||
| Daves |
Actually I didn't bring them into inventory. The owner of the dealership did. The storm I refer to is the time frame we are in where dealers that don't care about Buell,their riders or are dropping Buell are dumping their inventory on sites like cycletrader or ebay. Once this subsides, things will get better for all of us. Dealers that want Buell and Buell riders as customers will be able to make a profit on the bikes and the values of used Buells will stabilize. This isn't going to happen overnight but it will happen. Give it some time. Everything will be ok. | ||
| Signguy |
Gotcha. I take things too literally sometimes. So, when you said "I have just bought 3 Buells from another dealer" I just assumed you made the decision to purchase them. I'm not looking to sell mine but when I do I hope its worth something. | ||
| Xring |
I've talked to the dealer in IL that has the used XB12's. They buy them from the Buell factory which is just a few miles away from their store. The bikes were used as demos for press rollouts, demo rides, etc. Once a year these bikes are auctioned off (I assume to dealers). The sales guy that I talked to (Kevin) said at the auction, his dealership got something like 25 of the 35 bikes that were offered. Good luck, Bill | ||
| Nick |
Signguy, I can understand your frustration completely, but if you were in the market for a Buell you would complain about prices being artificially high! Further, the only way to make the brand stronger is to increase the 'user base', hence the prices need to be lower. Here in the UK, the Buell is expensive (and whilst it's fantastic!) it's overpriced. Everyone I speak to says the bike is coooooool, but when they see the price they ask why I didn't go for a cheaper, faster, smoother (but in my opinion lacking any character at all = no fun) jap bike. The more owners the better, lower price should mean more owners (unless the brand is fundamentally flawed), the bike will be more popular second hand thus easier to sell. Besides, selling would be a bad idea, unless to buy another Buell, in which case Daves will give you top trade in I'm sure  | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Nick, if you look, there are deals to be had. Not long ago a well respected Buell dealer was offering XB9's for £4995 otr, delivered anywhere in the UK. If you convert that to US Dollars and then subtract the 10% import tax, then the 17.5% sales tax those bikes were hitting the streets at about $6500 (US dollars). The bike was therefore selling for around the same in the UK as the US. It is the tax that distorts the prices. Steve. steve_s@ukbeg.com www.ukbeg.com | ||
| Reepicheep  |
I bought my (brand new full retail priced) Buell to ride it. If I were concerned about resale price or depreciation, I would have bought one used and been on the other side of the equation. Actually, I am a perfect data point. I bought a 2000 M2 in January of 2001 with 3000 miles on it. I got it used from private seller for $5200. This was probably an $8000 bike that was still on many showroom floors at this time. Rode it for about 25k miles, and traded it in for $3000. That is a *fantasticly* good depreciation, unheard of for newer sport oriented motorcycles. So if I could go back in time and do it again, would I? No. I would go back even further, 1996 or so, and paid *full* retail for a brand spanking new S1, which at that point was probably closer to $10k. And I would have ridden the *wheels* off the thing. And when it came time to trade in the Cyclone, I saw a number of used XB9s's (the bike I wanted) in various states for between $3000 (crashed but very repairable) to $6500 (effectively new). So what did I do? I spent full retail to get the new 05 9sx from a dealer that is good to me. Why pay so much more for such a similar bike to one I could get cheap? Because the new one was one I could afford (barely), and it was exactly the one I wanted. Long after I have paid off the price difference, I will still be riding the wheels off my 9sx. So I understand what you are saying, but look at the amount of seat time you have had during the time the thing has depreciated. If you were to rent the bike out for that amount per day, you would have people lined up around the block waiting to use it. | ||
| Signguy |
"I can understand your frustration completely, but if you were in the market for a Buell you would complain about prices being artificially high!" Sorry Nick, I never complained that the price was "artificially high" when I was shopping for a new bike. "Further, the only way to make the brand stronger is to increase the 'user base', hence the prices need to be lower." I don't believe that theory to be true. General Motors in the U.S., for example, has been pushing lower prices, more rebates/incentives and 0% loans and their market share is continuing to erode. H-D keeps growing and they aren't lowering prices. My local dealer (Harley of Edison) is (or at least was, not sure if they still are) the top selling Buell dealer in the U.S. and while they aren't selling for MSRP they aren't giving them away either. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I think the sportbike market is price sensitive. Even with a world beater like the GSXR a couple of years ago they couldn't even get a grand more than competitors. Moreover, Buell has an uphill battle due to the HP craving US sportbike consumer. I love the engine and don't want to ride anything else, but I know many people that would rather have 90 ft/lbs or torque at 12k than 55ft/lbs at 4k, not to mention an extra 60 ponies. In terms of acceleration, the Buell is not in the liter bike category and it will be tough to get literbike prices. Harleys are often purchased for appearance more than function. The prices are marketing driven, and Harley is the absolute best at creating demand and cache. The same results have not carried over to Buell. Don't get me wrong, I love my Buell. I could have bought any other brand for the same price. I also, however, know a lot of riders of Japanese sportbike riders and am aware that they value absolute performance for the dollar in a mathematical way. As for GM, their fit and finish and durability has a reputation for being inferior to honda, toyota, etc., so they have had to drop their shorts. New quality studies indicate a huge improvement, but it will take a few years for the market to recognize and value that. It has taken about 10 years for the market to recognize that Cadillac actually makes decent cars again. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I wonder if the US horsepower thing isn't already starting to go the way of European riders, where they worry much more about the overall bike package and less about peak horsepower. I almost think the hyperbikes are *helping* in this regard. The fact that you can get an R1 putting out 170 horsepower (or whatever absurd figure they make stock) in a credible handling package seems to take the pressure off the middleweights. When I think of middleweights, I think of inline four water cooled 600's, water cooled oversquare OHC twins of 650 to 750cc's, or aircooled pushrod 1000 to 1200 cc engines. Now that the hyperbikes have so pushed the high power category to absurd heights, nobody will be buying middleweights for power, they will be buying them for the overall riding experience. Anyone saying "yeah, your Buell sucks because it is only 80 HP at the rear wheel when my F4i makes 95 horses" will be laughed out of the bar because if thats his quality criteria, his bike is *still* a joke at 75 horsepower BELOW an R1 (or whatever). And people like me can look at an R1 and say "thats an amazing machine that has absolutely no appeal to me whatsoever" and not sound crazy, and indeed sound quite rational. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Man, I couldn't agree more. I love the overall package of the Buell. It really is a middleweight and an awesome one at that. The low end makes it more appealing to me than a small 4cyl by far. Maybe Buell should make an effort to get it compared to the Japanese middleweights like Ducati does with the 750. It only falls short if you expect 1000cc power. Honda does well with VFR. I know anyone riding one of those is a real rider. They are huge in Europe. | ||
| Racertroy  |
Reep n Spat, Good comments...for my two cents, technical innovation carries some weight...in other words, HP and handling are all good...but the innovation shown in the buell designs (frame, swing arm, wheels, muffler, intake) are second to none...for the privilege of riding such a cutting edge machine...i'm willing to pay a little more...by doing so, i'm doing my part to keep the innovators in enough cash flow to keep inovating...and then, when the Japanese OEMs come out with similar ideas years later, we can all say in a casual way...yeah...that was good when it first came out in '02...anyway...it all boils down to pride of ownership...i'm a happy techno geek while riding my machine...American inguinuity...it's a small price to pay to keep this phrase alive in two wheel realms... ciao, --ts PS Yes I'm thinking about buying an ATK | ||
| Spatten1 |
Amen Brother! Well said. Also, that ATK looks like it will be awesome. | ||
| Bake |
Personally I thought my Buell was inexpensive compared to the Ducati's, Aprillia's and KTM's I also had on my wish list. After a lot of looking I found I could buy the Buell which has great equipment used by the same european manufactures for a lot less money, the HP/torque figures between all these bikes are not that different. For me I am sure that it will be enough HP to get my yaw yaws out! bake | ||
| Glitch  |
I've had so many bikes that I learned a long time ago just to forget about what it's worth to someone else. I bought my Buell so I could own and ride a Buell. 30somethingthousand miles later I'm still ridin'. Besides after I've put on as many miles as I have, I'm more worried about where to go next rather than how much someone might give me for it. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Ducati and Aprillia are very low volume importers, I assume due to their price. They are more expensive than Buells, but thier power is definitely bigger than the Buell's. I wouldn't recommend using a sportster motor in a World Superbike race. The low-end Monsters are comparable in power to the Buell, but not the performance models. I'd rather have the buell because I like the frame, handling, engine feel, looks, etc. To ride a Buell, BMW, etc. you really have to want a special bike rather than just making an empiricle decision based on performance vs. dollars. I wish Harley would make an effort to build up the Buell's reputation. Making reliable and light bikes was a great start, but I think it could be a really sought after brand if positioned with a real effort. Harley could market a turd, and the Buell is a great product. The MC press drives much of the sales in the US, and Buell has not been really aggressive in making an impact on them. No Buell has been the darling in any comparo's etc. If Motorcyclist will rave about a Sportster then they'd do the same for a Buell if it were properly positioned. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Glitch is right. I just think more people would want to ride Buells if Harley could get the word out better. | ||
| Brucelee |
Free markets work perfectly to establish "real value." Real value is of course what a buyer is willing to pay and what a seller is willing to take. This equilibrium point is what we call the selling price! Both want to extract the max. value out of the transaction, the buyer to buy for as little as possible, the seller for the most he can. Each is free to walk away. Let the good times roll. |
