| Author | Message | ||
     Robhughes |
Not a one yet besides the developmental dynos. We really don't get many Buell guys dropping by as we only see one part for Buells, this pipe. When we went to the local HD/Buell Shop (good sized store), they pretty much laughed when I asked them if they had customers that wanted a pipe for cheap installed and dynoed. "We only have those here because we have to, I doubt any of our customers would want a pipe for it." So then I went to another shop and was told that they only have Buells on the floor because they "have to" (again) and they don't sell "hardly any", which was easy to see since they had 2 year old bikes on the floor. My offer stands if anyone in the NYC/Long Island area wants a pipe installed, dynoed and ready to go for cheap, shoot me an e-mail. Rob@orientexpress.com | ||
| Robhughes |
Plus with all of the controversy the guys talking smack would have just discounted my dynos anyway...so I pushed the whole thing off to the back burner and went on selling 'busa pipes and turbos and our sucessful Yamaha V-twin stuff. The best dynos that you guys will believe will be the ones posted by "real people" that aren't selling anything. I'll wait and when someone does post, it'll be because their bike picked up all sorts of power, not to make a buck. In the meanwhile we have sold a pretty good number of pipes, considering it is a new system and a new market for us. I'm pretty sure we've sold more Buell pipes than our new SV pipe (which is a pretty cool pipe in itself)....but nothing comes close to the number of GSXR and R1 pipes we sell.....in just a few days! | ||
| Tripper  |
Those comments are quite typical of HD dealers, which explains nicely why there are many less Buell dealers today than there were last month. That pipe is the most macho bad ••• product I've ever seen. Hope to see a dyno result soon. | ||
| M1combat  |
You know what Rob... Send a pipe to Aaron Wilson (that is, if he's willing to put it on a bike and Dyno it (Aaron... I'm willing to ride 600miles EACH WAY if you have no other XB's available that are closer)). If I like the curve I'll buy one at a fair price. I REALLY would like to buy a Ti-Force pipe. The problem is... When it was introduced to this sight, IMO... there were connections made to a, shall I say "Nefarious" character WHO HAS THEN SEEMINGLY SCREWED A BADWEB MEMBER. I've never even LOOKED at a dyno sheet for the product and we're talking about ~$1300!!! Hello..... I make $1028 per paycheck... That means I have to work fifty hours and thirty-six minutes of my life to buy your product. Make the investment.} | ||
| 12bolt  |
True, very true. Not a lot of people are going to shell out that kind of cash without at least seeing a dyno from the factory that built the thang. I would think to build a good tuned pipe you would be running all kinds of dynos to perfect the pipe before selling it? | ||
| Wyckedflesh  |
Rob, are they all titanium now or are they still the stainless that was originally available. Admittedly I haven't looked back but its due to not enough cash to afford the pipe. The pipe is however in the budget for the engine rebuild  | ||
| Blake |
Rob Hughs, You bash Buells on other sites, you say you'll post dyno charts, but you never do. And you come here, again, peddling your wares without ever letting go of a dime to support the site. No sponsorship, no peddling. I don't believe 94 RWHP from and XB9 with just an EFI augmentation kit, intake, and exhaust. You had an offer from a NYC BadWeBr but you didn't follow through. You were told back in may that you needed to sponsor or cease peddling your wares here...
Until you show me otherwise, I don't trust a word you say. Blake (Admin/Custodian BadWeatherBikers.com) | ||
| Blake |
Exhibit #1: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/55197.html?1083464423#POST2 58086 Exhibit #2:
Exhibit #3:
You owe BadWeB $350, and you owe yourself some integrity. (Message edited by blake on January 08, 2005) | ||
| Trenchtractor  |
Wow... I dunno how I might have missed that thread.... Bubba REALLY went off, eh?? Correy James was trying to sell these at some point, wasn't he?? I have heard some good things about Ti force out of the UK, but nothing concrete and nothing about the Buell system... Made in Japan?? Can anyone verify if Rob and Orient Express even have anything to do with the development of the pipe, or is he/are they just reselling them??? I don't think I'm about to rush out and buy a set, the price would put them over the duty limits so they'd end up costing $2,000AUDish by the time you get them to australia... Sheesh!! I just did a couple of numbers, if a Jardine was worth 5hp (they claim something like up to 7hp, don't they??), for $250USD that's $50US per hp. At that rate, the Ti Force would need to be worth 26hp!!! Staggering... I know, it's not about that... Quality, system maching, better heads, blah blah blah... But numbers are so much fun!!! I should proly go to bed. | ||
| Daves  |
I have a dyno. OK, actually we have 2. | ||
| Robhughes |
Blake, I stated that the Buells motor makes unimpressive power output, I didn't bash the bikes, as a matter of fact the rest of the bike is cutting edge just stuck with a dog of a motor. Especially compared to a V-Rod motor. The Buell chassis deserves a better motor, I think we can all agree on that. We don't build pipes for bikes unless they need a pipe and in the Buell market a new pipe was sorely needed. I pretty much gave up on pushing the Buell TiForce after the "warm welcome" I got early on. I didn't need the conspiracy theorist going on and on, and soon after we came out with a new Hayabusa pipe that needed lots of attention so my efforts were re-focused at least temporarily. I haven't given up on this market, but I came out of the gate a little fast and I needed/need to get all of my ducks lined up to do you guys and the pipe justice. Johnny offered up a bike for testing but at that point I supposedly had a guy who was real close wanting to buy a system, plus it was going to be a few weeks till I could get a TFI. He was ready to do it after he took a trip or something and apparently he wrecked his bike while away. To be honest I would advertise, but it's pointless until I or someone else has a dyno sheet to post up......otherwise I might as well be selling a recycled pipe or something with welds that don't belong on a Huffy. I have another person interested in a pipe right now with dynoing and install...we'll see how it works out. She's stainless with the ti can....still | ||
| Daves |
I have a bike, I have a dyno, I have a GM that has been involved with several race teams and knows how to tune a bike, I have TFI units in stock, We both have the time after work to do some dyno runs and have the proof everyone seems to want. All I need is the pipe Rob. I'm not going to buy a pipe to do the testing but if people like the results I'll not only buy the pipe you send me but place an order for 5 or 10 more depending on level of interest at that time. If it doesn't pan out I'll send the pipe back to you. I won't charge you anything for the testing as I will be doing it for fun after work and the future sales of your system. It's a win/win situation for both of us. I'm already a sponsor so that takes care of that for you too. Whatcha say? Wanna work together? daves@h-dappleton.com 1-920-757-1651 ask for Dave in the sales dept. | ||
| Johncr250 |
Blake: You gave Rob from TiForce such a hard time last year when he was just posting pictures of the new TiForce system, demanding money for sponsorship. But it was ok for Bubba to SELL his homemade Drummer on this site for over a year and a half with no questions asked? Why? I smell a ••••••• rat and its You! Something is up for sure. Maybe you were getting a kickback? TiForce makes top quality pipes that perform! Just ask Trojan! They said it "will make a massive increase in HP" Or read the Roadracing magazines and see what the top teams are using. Many of them use TiForce. Granted they are not cheap, but they are made from Stainless or Titanium and are a complete system that is top of line in quality, not just a gutted stock can welded in someones basement like most people on this site have. | ||
| Hobanbrothers  |
Dave, Call me, I believe I have a pipe for you to try... | ||
| Johncr250 |
And then everyone wonder why the aftermarket manufactures don`t expand their product lines to include Buell? Its people like Blake that no absolutely nothing about products and then proceed to bash them. You think TiForce is making money on what maybe 15 systems per year that they sell for Buells? Or compare that to the thousands of systems that make for Honda, suzuki, and kawi. We should be encouraging the aftermarket to make parts for Buells, not jumping all over them for money. Wouldn`t it be nice to be able to buy a Yoshimura (or other manufacture) full system for our Buells that includes a real adjustable Race ECM like you can get for the other top four manufactures? In our dreams.. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise)  |
I stated that the Buells motor makes unimpressive power output, I didn't bash the bikes, Thats BS, you were on the Yamaha Warrior site bashing Buells. I even posted some of what you said here but I dont feel like digging for it now. The only time you poke your head out of the sand is when you smella possible buck or 2 to be made. You have had 9-10 months to come up with a dyno run sheet & to date have offered nothing but excuses. I still think yourself & Corey James with his "Hamster garage" deal were or maybe still are in cahoots together. He was pretty much run out of town due to being caught with all his lies. | ||
| Xbolt12 |
Right on Dave! Rob, I am sorry, but I was probably one of the bashers. However, all I really want to see is some real before/after dynos which seem to be very hard to get regarding performance mods on Buells. The problem is most dynos are done out of pocket by an end user who does not have the funds or equipment to run back to back dynos on the same day while trying equipment. The real reason for my questioning is of course any connections to Corey James. Ti Force is good stuff, we all know that, but results speak for themselves so I hope you take Dave up on his offer and we will all benefit if the pipe performs! xbolt12 | ||
| Ingemar  |
Rob, you're a liar. I've seen you on dozens of boards wasting bandwidth. On some boards you never bothered to answer questions. The welcome here was harsh, but well deserved IMO. Quit wasting bandwidth and come up with some dyno's from reliable sources. Take people up on their offer to help you with that. Support the community with more than just the product. If you can't or won't do that I'd rather see you go that come. On second thought, screw it. I don't care how good your product is, you've proven yourself to be a liar and I don't need you around. To win hearts you need more than a good product. My 2 cents on the matter. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
John, another problem is instead of doing a dyno run on a stock bike & then putting on just the exhaust the system, plenty of people will also change the air filter, add an ecm & the pipe & then do a dyno run & claim all of the improvement is due to the pipe. Where as if they had done nothing more than change the pipe the improvement may be no more than a couple hp if anything at all. Its hard to compare dyno runs when more than 1 item has ben changed because you arent really sure where the improvement came from. 94 hp out of 9 with this pipe? No way in hell, the Force pipe flows pretty damn well & its not even close to that. | ||
| Reepicheep  |
JohnCR250, nothing personal, this is just a statement of fact, but it is hard to imagine you being any more wrong or less informed. Rob, we have been through this before. I am not trying to attack or be rude, but at this point about the ONLY way this pipe is going to dig itself out of the hole it has dug itself is if you shut up and show us the Dyno. I *might* consider buying it from Dave, because of his reputation. If he puts his stamp of approval on it, that will be enough to overcome the gallons of snakeoil already spread all over the place. Not much else would tempt me to ever consider the piece even if you showed a Dyno with a stock 9 with the pipe showing 120 horses at the rear wheel. Sure, you make a lot of horsepower, but Court can FLY  (Message edited by reepicheep on January 08, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
Thank you Bill.  Johncr250, Let me get this straight. According to you, I am a cheating liar and a scammer, and BadWeB should allow non-sponsors to peddle their wares freely on the board so long as they are representing an established motorcycle performance parts business? As to the Drummer folks, John, I've explained clearly to you and other jackasses on a number of prior occasions, as soon as I learned from the Drummer folks that they were separate and independent from Tilley's, they were asked for and immediately provided sponsorship fees covering ALL of their past ad activity on the board as well as the remainder of that year and then the entire next year. The Drummer folks have proven themselves of high integrity and good honest character. I give EVERYONE the benefit of doubt when it comes to sponsorship issues here. Mr. Hughes was given that same courtesy. He has ignored and/or abused it. You, John, owe me here and now a sincere public apology and a retraction of your slanderous lies and accusations above. As to how the site is administered, I'll tell you the same as everyone, if you don't like it, then please leave immediately, and don't let any BadWeB page linger on your computer screen for longer than it takes to click the window closed. What you say about me you say about all BadWeB custodians, as they are integral in the administration and maintenance and policies of this web site. You owe them an apology too. Had you cast such slanderous accusations at any of my fellow custodians, I would have simply banned you from the site and never looked back. But since it is me that you chose to attack and such an action might appear self-serving, I recuse myself from that option and leave it to my fellow custodians to handle the matter. Blake (admin/custodian BadWeB)  | ||
| Fullpower  |
well as for myself, i am less concerned with personality conflicts, and politics. the Ti-Force pipe looks really cool, and if the performance is there, and documentable, then i will own one. i have a few questions about the system: 1) what is the primary pipe diameter? 2)what is the complete system weight? 3) how will it run on a stock bike? it is very easy to see from the pictures that the very large headers will flow well at high rpm, and ought to make good peak power, but my main concern is the TORQUE CURVE. my motorcycle spends a good amount of time between 2500 and 4500 rpms, and i demand smooth uninterupted thrust in this rpm range. i would throw down 1200 dollars US pretty quick if i had some reliable documentation to support the performance claims of this exhaust system. send your best to dave stueve in appleton, have him flog it a bit on the road, dyno test it a few times, then if the numbers are there, i am very likely to be a customer. regards, dean h ravin. | ||
| Jerseyguy  |
Quoted from Johncr250 - "But it was ok for Bubba to SELL his homemade Drummer" "not just a gutted stock can welded in someones basement like most people on this site have" "I smell a ••••••• rat and its You! Something is up for sure. Maybe you were getting a kickback?" I take umbrage to these statements. Kevin Drum is a personal friend and I happen to know that he handcrafts these at his business in Hickory, NC. Drummers are more than a "gutted stock can". Kevin made and tested many prototypes before he got the winning combination that was tested and proven by Bubba at Tillys HD. Fact is, that there are a hundred or so out there that are run by satisfied customers. The word "kickback" doesn't even make sense here as it's Blake's website to start with. KD Fab is a paid subscriber to this site. Whenever anyone promotes a product by degrading the competition, and not proving the advantages of his own product, you know something is amiss. As Dave has more politely offered than I, Put up or shut up. | ||
| Jerry_haughton  |
Blake...I smell a ••••••• rat and its You! Something is up for sure. Maybe you were getting a kickback? rude, at best. an apology is in order. | ||
| Surveyor  |
WOW!.....think I'll keep my head below the parapet. | ||
| Ben_jamminvfcc |
Dangit....I'm out of popcorn! Be right back. | ||
| Glitch  |
Funny how people that act like jerks are surprised when they are treated like jerks. | ||
| M1combat |
Alrighty then... I'm SOOO glad I waited to buy a pipe because I'd really like a Ti-Force and might FINALLY have a chance to get a good Dyno sheet from someone I trust . I don't mean to offend you Rob by implying that I don't trust YOU, but I (as well as many others here) have a history with Dave and the rest of the sponsors. We've also been able to pour out a lot of snake oil when it has been brought to us in buckets... On the subject of an expensive pipe on a stock bike... Yeah, I'd rather see sheets with a TFI too. I would still like to see one on a mostly stock bike (Filter/Race ECM/12 airbox if it needs it) just to be sure there aren't any places where the A/F ratio is VERY lean. | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Here's the way i see it now... Rob sends Dave a pipe. Dave tests whatever bike he's got with whatever exhaust, with K&N and TFi tuned. He then test the same gear witht he TiForce. He posts the results here. Remember the Velocity stack challenge?? Well, that well and truely settled the induction question... At least this time Dave (good bloke he is) is willing to do the testing, rather than one of the punters having to shell out for it. Then the pipe can be freely promoted by dave (if it works) and made available to us badwebers... If it doesn't work, Rob gets sent away with his tail between his legs... 'well as for myself, i am less concerned with personality conflicts, and politics. the Ti-Force pipe looks really cool, and if the performance is there, and documentable, then i will own one' I'll second that comment, FP... 100%. And i think you'll find that once the dust has settled and the pipe is sold to a few people, in a years time there will be rave reports for it here... IF IT WORKS... Look at the jardine... It was rubbished all over the shop for dodgy brackets... They went away and fixed that, now some time has passed and people are raving about it. 'Whenever anyone promotes a product by degrading the competition, and not proving the advantages of his own product, you know something is amiss.' Jersey, sorry mate but I gotta say this. Promotion of a product should ONLY be on it's own merits, or by way of comparitive performance data that the masses can use to make their own mind up... No one should be 'degrading' the competition, that's dirty tactics. There was some rather intense marketing of the drummer going on here, you'll have to admit that. Every time someone asked about a different muffler, Bubba was there 'proving' why the other mufflers weren't as good as the drummer, weak brackets (even though the customer support was there to deal with that), top end performance (even though that's what some of us want). For a while there I was thinking we should change the board from the XBoard to the DRUMMERoard... Not that I'm commenting on the performance of the Drummer, more the way in which it was marketed. | ||
| Rsh |
You can go to the Ti Force web site and look at the Buell info directly, the posted dyno chart ( which you can hardly read ) shows a slight horsepower and torque increase from mid range on up. That is alot of coin for a marginal performance increase, maybe it's more for looks. http://www.tiforce.com/2003/models_page/other/buell.html |
