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T9r
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2018 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am working on the project to upgrade my 2004 XB12R to a 2008 XB12 motor (and all necessary parts).

I am addressing what I've done to upgrade the electric fan on my bike.

I started by following Xbimmers' directions (http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/762330.html.
I also purchased the Spal 30103013 5.2" Paddle Blade Pusher Fan on Amazon.com for approx. $60 (4/18).

Instead of cutting my fan shroud, I decided to press out the motor shaft, separating the fan blades from the motor shaft.






The two motors are shaped identically.





The press fitted unit & fan back in place. They fit perfectly. I scored the top of the motor shaft and fan blade to ensure they would be properly lined back up (in case of imbalance).








Wiring setup - Red & Black are new Spal connectors (need to be removed) and Yellow & Black are the stock XB motor wires.





CONNECTOR TYPE:
The 2004 XB uses an automotive connector by TE Connectivity/ AMP, .070 Multilock, 2 Position (pin), (MFR. # 174460-2).

It uses TE Connectivity/ AMP terminals (tab), (MFR. #345210-1).

I purchased these at Mouser Electronics (Mouser.com) for about $3/EA and then another $5 for shipping (4/18).

I also needed to purchase an IWISS crimping tool for the terminals from Amazon.com for about $23 (4/18).






(Message edited by t9r on April 09, 2018)
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Teeps
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2018 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nice job, it will be interesting to hear about the durability of removing and reinstalling the fan blade.
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Fast1075
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I failed two fans on my XB when I had it. Both started squealing before they died. I did a teardown on both, and both had no visible bearing lube. Nice stainless bearings, just dry as a bone and chewed up.
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T9r
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fast1075 - Did the fans have less than 25k miles on them before failure? It is an interesting environment for the fan units on these bikes.
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Fast1075
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 04:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One failed around 30K the other around 45K. Sold the bike at 60K.
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Teeps
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

For those interested in seeing a few fan forensics photos look here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/827469.html?1435596062
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Robid
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2021 - 05:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi T9r,

It's been a while since you posted this up. I have just ordered the Spal fan and I'm wondering how you went with separating the blades from the motor to press the electric motor out. Did you have any issues with the blades coming loose or coming off over time?

Thanks
David
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Teeps
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2021 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Robid,
I suggest you use the procedure in the link above to replace the fan/motor assembly.

The fan blade was not designed to be removed and reinstalled... just say'n
Also Tr9 has not posted here about the fan/motor swap.
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T9r
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2021 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I haven't run the motor since I swapped it.
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Tpehak
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It looks like the fan on my 2009 Buell XB12 is dieing. The motorcycle has about 30000 miles. It struggles to rotate at low speed (it turns slower than usual and almost stops rotating sometimes) . But I feel no big resistance when I rotate it manually. Did you have same symptoms?

Does this SPAL fan fit 2009 Buell XB?

Has anyone tryed this Twin Motorcycles bracket they designed to adopt the SPAL fan?

https://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/artikel.asp?mc=1&aid=43518&cid=0&s=Fan&a=

https://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/artikel.asp?mc=1&aid=11219

(Message edited by TPEHAK on August 17, 2021)
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T9r
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was doing preventive repair/replacement... no symptoms at time of removal.
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Tpehak
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anyone knows how to test the fan at low speed with ECM Droid? It looks like it runs it at high speed and I can not find how to run it at low speed.
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Tpehak
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here is the issue. The video shows fan test with ECM Droid. You can see the fan did not start after I ran the test cycle second time. It started only after I kicked it.

The fan stopped working properly after I made continuous 500 miles ride




(Message edited by TPEHAK on August 17, 2021)
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Teeps
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is a good chance the fan in the video (above) has worn brushes and commutator as in the photos in the link I posted above.

Also the fan on my Uly sounded like it was grinding rock when running on low speed.
(made the grinding noise for several years before finally crapping out.)
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Tpehak
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So we need brushless motor for this application.
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Tpehak
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2021 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, it looks like nobody figured out how to remove the motor properly. This Buell XB fan is completely serviseable! To replace the motor all you need is just three 8-32 screws with nuts. It takes less than 1 minute to remove the motor and it is super easy, no damage to the housing or to the fan.



Attach the screws with the nuts to the back side of the motor





Drive the each screw 1 turn per time until the fan well be pressed out.





Done! Do the same to remove the new motor from the new SPAL fan and install the new motor to the housing, press the fan on the motor and you can install the fan back on the motorcycle.



(Message edited by TPEHAK on August 19, 2021)
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Tpehak
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2021 - 11:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Another crappy Buell solution is to use brushed motor on air cooled engine where the duty cycle can be 50-100% of time. After just 30000 miles the brushes and the commutator were turned to dust

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Tpehak
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2021 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The part #345210-1 TE Connectivity/ AMP terminals posted here is wrong. This terminal size is "S" it is for 22-24 AWG wire gauge.



This is too small. The size mark on the fan terminals is "M"




The fan wires conductor diameter is about 1.4 mm, this is 17 AWG wire gauge. The insulation diameter is 2.4 mm.

Here are the correct tabs part numbers:



Part number 175030-1 (tin plated brass pin sold by loose pieces) should work properly ($0.3 each).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/175030-1?qs=CUvIYviUNcTzAx8lrxdqlQ%3D%3D&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpf2IBhDkARIsAGVo0D2qGbw_fve99lW0BY4cDZ5vvYOgcM8XUPlPAmDcLDFynSXdhxvu0acaAuX4EALw_wcB

(Message edited by TPEHAK on August 20, 2021)
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Dtlight
Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2021 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Square nuts make pressing the fan blade off with three screws easier.
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Tpehak
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2022 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anybody knows if there are brushless motors for the cooling fans? That brushed motor life is too short, especially with long duty cycles.

https://www.lsxmag.com/features/pri-coverage/pri-2021-spal-explains-why-brushless-fans-rule/

https://www.spalautomotive.it/brushless

Spal claims their brushless fans have 40000 hours lifespan. If you will ride your motorcycle everyday for 4 hours per day 7 days per week 365 days per year it will work for almost 30 years. So if you will ride it for commute it will live more than you do. That's the fan we need for Buell, not that crappy brushed fan.

(Message edited by TPEHAK on August 26, 2022)
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Tpehak
Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2022 - 09:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, my new SPAL motor now acts the same as the original one 2000 miles ago. So the original motor survived for 30000 miles and the new one worked just for 2000 miles. WTF is going on here?

There is a difference how the fans was set though. The original fan most of the time worked with disables speed-based fan control in ECM and the new fan was set on speed-based fan control. I'm not sure about the temperature settings (I used new ECM with new EEPROM), but my current setting similar to this https://www.rev-mo.com/fansettings

I do not think this setting killed the fan within 2000 miles. My original fan with 23000 miles survived for another 7000 miles when I replaced the ECM with new EEPROM set on speed-based fan control.

Another strange thing is there is a lot of things happened at the same time: first of all the front injector scuffed wire shortened on the ground happened. When I fixed it I noticed the motorcycle fan started working with longer duration time (so I believe the motorcycle engine for some reason started work hotter). Then in a few days the flashing Check Engine Lamp happened indicating engine is overheating on regular commute on the highway at 60 mph speed. Then the same day I noticed the fan started changing sound during work indicating the fan struggles to rotate. And today I performed the fan test with ECM and found it has a dead spot at which it can not even start rotating without kicking just like it happened with the original fan (the fan rotates freely though without resistance which means the problem is worn commutator again).

I do not want to pay $60 every 2000 miles and spend my time replacing the fan motor so I am looking for a brushless motor or a fan would fit the 130 mm Buell XB fan opening. It looks like SPAL makes a 12V 130mm brushless fan but I can not find any place they sell it.

(Message edited by TPEHAK on September 01, 2022)
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Tpehak
Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2022 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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Tpehak
Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2022 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Buell XB fan leads housing is TE connectivity (AMP) Part Number 368545-3

https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-368545-3.html
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Tpehak
Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2022 - 02:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I created the Buell XB fan CAD model and uploaded it to GrabCAD so you can use it. I am going to see if I can find a brushless fan can fit that place.

https://grabcad.com/library/buell-xb-cooling-fan-w ith-screen-y0050-02a8a-and-r0053-1adb-1





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