| Author |
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Whodom
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 08:37 pm: | 
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OK, I checked Metzeler's website to see what they had to say:
"According to the specific regulations of different country governments, a general recommendation regarding tyre repair cannot be given. For your country, please refer to your distributor. In case a repair is permitted, METZELER is only recommending the repair of small punctures restricted to the tread area using a mushroom head type plug. The repair of a punctured tubeless tyre by means of fitting a tube is not permitted."
Looks like they recommend the "StopNGo" style plugs like I used. |
Lovematt
| | Posted on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 08:50 am: |
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Using a tube is only okay if the tire is not a radial...I think Bias Ply is the type that is cool with tubes. I believe the problem is the fact that the reinforcement wires could wear through or puncture the tube on the inside.
Most tires sold nowdays is a radial so a tube is not an option. |
Freyke
| | Posted on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 09:17 am: |
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Almost all motorcycle tires (now-days) are radial... the reason for the use of an inner tube is typically for spoked rims/wheels which tend to leak air through the spoke holes on the rim... the only problem with a tube is the risk of rapid deflation (a.k.a. blowout) and subsequent loss of control... I think you could get away with a tube.. the likely problem will be the schrader (sp?) valve/ valve-stem...
anyone... anyone..... Bueller... anyone...
kk//kef |
Outrider
| | Posted on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 11:32 am: |
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Interesting feedback to the Tube Question.
FYI, the reason I brought it up is I finally remembered that a few dealers in So Cal did the tube thing when I experienced similar problems with radial tires on non-spoke wheels.
Incidentally, there was no change in the way the bike handled and I got full mileage out of the tires.
Granted this was done on a Yamaha FJ1200 and a Kawasaki Concours, I don't see why it wouldn't apply to a Buell or any other newer bike.
Anyone else have any input??? |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 03:42 pm: |
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Tubes aren't recommended for high performance because there's always the question of tyre movement around the rim. If in the extreme this were to occur whilst you were at high speed the valve could get ripped out of the tube. This can also happen over lengthy time periods were the valve can be subject to small movements, thus one day leading to failure.
It's worth noting, tubeless rims are the reason we don't see 'rim locks' on modern bikes.
That said, the practice is known, as are its failings, within the adventure motorcycling fraternity when certain individuals have placed tubes inside tubeless tyres in an effort to keep them going until the problem can be sorted proper.
Rocket |
Outrider
| | Posted on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 07:22 pm: |
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Rocket...Good points but I still need some help on the issue.
I never had a problem with either bike and ran the hell out of them. The only things I didn't do were burnouts, wheelies or stoppies as I like to save my tires for the twisties and leave the hooliganism for the kids. Heck, I even had the FJ1200 on the track at Willow Springs and never encountered a problem.
Liked your comment about rim locks. Must not have had them on my old Suzuki X6 Hustler in 1967. Ripped the rear stem clean off under full load and lost all air in an instant. Was lucky to control the bike as it was all over the place and my GF was riding side saddle. Still, I beat that silly Sportster. LOL
If that is the kind of concern for tubes with radial tires and spokeless rims, then I understand but would appreciate your elaborating more on the subject. However, you also mentioned adventure touring bikes.
Low on the adventure totem pole was my spoke wheeled KLR650 but I had it equipped with Michelin radials and tubes and that was my wheelie machine not to mention canyon carver and all out desert racer. Was the hot ticket in the UK and throughout Europe at the time. In fact, at first it was the T66 radial rear with the T65 bias ply front combo. Later they added a T66 radial front tire.
Got my first set imported from the UK as they were not available in the US yet. No rim locks there either and the application was recommended by Michelin and their soon to follow competitors. I got the tip from a friend (Clement Salvadore) who was living in Italy and touring all of Europe at the time while writing articles for the Moto Mags back home. In fact, he set up the connections for us to buy them.
How come that works? Especially since quite a few of us had them and we had to drop air pressure significantly at times to meet offroad conditions (mud, snow, hill climbs, etc) during dual purpose runs and still weren't gentle on them in the asphalt twisties. However, we did stop at the first available air pump. LOL
Not tossing stones, just trying to understand at what level a tube in a radial on a spokeless rim represents a hazard. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 09:03 pm: |
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Not tossing stones, just trying to understand at what level a tube in a radial on a spokeless rim represents a hazard.
It doesn't as far as I know but I've heard talk it can for the reasons I stated. Maybe the manufacturers are covering their arses too you know?
The reference to adventure motorcycling was made to support the comment because tyre movement around the rim is a recognised occurrence for some adventurers.
As you rightly point out, adventure motorcycling necessitates the need to frequently adjust the air pressure the tyres run at. When it happens, this has a lot to do with the tyre creeping around the rim, and as I'm sure your friend Clement will tell you (is he a close friend?), many serious adventure motorcyclists prepare their rims to accommodate rim locks. In fact, they are essential.
Incidentally, I read somewhere but forget the details, that tyre temperature and tube temperature differ in the scenario we speak of, and that can lead to problems too. Maybe it was a handling or blow out issue. I really can't remember, sorry.
Rocket |
Outrider
| | Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 10:58 am: |
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Rocket...Thanks for the response. I really wasn't sure about the using tubes with radials on non-spoke wheels at least not from a current position. My two examples were from the early and mid 1990's.
Referencing my original responses to this thread, my thinking today is to just replace the tire. Once you pay to have the tire R&R'd, the only difference is the cost of the Patch/Tube vs a new tire and that isn't really all that much when you factor in the wear on your existing tire. Not to mention, the R&R cost goes down significantly when you buy a tire vs have one repaired.
Will look further into the rim lock issue. Am aware of them, just didn't have them on the KLR and with all the punishment I gave that bike I am probably one lucky fellow. LOL
Have a great day!
Bill |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:47 am: |
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My Triumph Thunderbird Sport came with spoked wheels, innertubes, and modern tubeless tires (avons I believe which I later changed to M1s). No problems with any Thunderbirds on any of the boards. Running tubes will be just fine, but what makes you think that the nail won't take out the tube and tire at the same time. Just plug it and you'll be fine, especially since you said you're not hard on your tires. |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:48 am: |
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A better question is whether you can find a large enough innertube, my TBS had a 160 rear. |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 02:28 pm: |
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Hi-larious. Ran across and thought o this thread. Enjoy.
http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/plugging_a_flat_tire.htm |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 04:58 pm: |
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Yes absolutely, I agree, plug it. It will be fine.
Incidentally, in my ramblings about the tube inside the tubeless tyre scenario I was likely referring to high performance machines.
Rocket |
Xb9er
| | Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 07:56 pm: |
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Sgt. Joe is the coolest!
Mike. |
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