| Author | Message | ||
     Gregoxb |
I have a 2009 Buell XB12Ss Lightning Long with 13.5K miles on it. Jardine exhaust, EBR ECM. Went out for a ride today, everything seemed OK. Drove like 30 minutes, turned the bike off for an hour, then went riding again. At the furthest point of my ride, the bike starting running a little more rough/vibrating at cruising speed. Then it started hesitating and surging. I turned the throttle and the bike would not pull forward like usual, instead it would bog down. It was accompanied by a low but loud burbling noise from the exhaust. I got really worried that I was not going to make it home. I coasted back home in the right lane at about 50mph, selecting the highest gear possible and keeping it around 2K RPM. The whole way back the bike was not comfortable with me twisting the throttle, and it would bog down and burble loudly if I twisted the throttle too much. Anyway, I made it home in one peace. Gave her a pat on the the air box, and thanked my lucky stars that I did not break down on the highway and I did not need to call a tow truck. I have had the bike for 6 years, and it has been a dream. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is. Is anyone knowledgeable of what the problem may be? Thanks. (Message edited by gregoxb on September 14, 2015) (Message edited by gregoxb on September 14, 2015) | ||
| Greg_e |
I would guess one of the following Blocked air intake Clogged/bad injector Clogged fuel filter or lines Bad fuel pump Maybe radically bad temperature sender, but that should have thrown a code. | ||
| Gregoxb |
Dang. Where should I begin? | ||
| Gregoxb |
A while back I was popping fuel pump fuses. I haven't popped one in over 2 years. At the time I brought a new fuel pump because I was paranoid it would be a problem in the future. I have it sitting in my garage. Is the fuel filter part of the fuel pump? (Message edited by gregoxb on September 14, 2015) | ||
| Phelan |
Sounds like the issues I had just before I found out my ECM was junk. Take your seat off, start the bike, and tap your ECM a few times with your knuckle. If the bike dies, you need a new ECM. Common issue with Ulys. Dunno about a Lightning Long but I believe the ECM is in the same location on them. If this is the case, relocate the ECM to somewhere it's not getting tapped or rubbed on by the seat or other parts. | ||
| Greg_e |
If it is the ecm, then the solder on the connector is broken! Might be able to fix it but it's an ugly repair because the plastic needs to be cut away. The filter is part of the major fuel pump assembly, so it depends what you actually bought. If you just have a small round cylinder pump, then the filter is not part of this. If you have the pump assembly that bolts right in place in the tank, then you should have new filter and input strainer. (Message edited by greg_e on September 14, 2015) | ||
| Gregoxb |
I have a new fuel pump assembly. I am very suspicious of the pump, being that it used to pop fuses on me. Is there anyway to determine if the pump is indeed bad? Or do I have to just pull it and inspect it? I know the air intake is clear because I checked it out the other day. New fuel injectors would be a pretty easy job. How do I check if my fuel lines are not clogged? I'll check the ECM too. Thanks again! (Message edited by gregoxb on September 14, 2015) | ||
| Greg_e |
A fuel pressure gauge inline and where you can see it when you ride. Connect it and check pressure at idle, then go for a short ride and note the pressure when the engine struggles. I'd send the injectors out for service, I used FIC when I did the top end on my 9r and everything came back fine. | ||
| Gregoxb |
I slept on it and had a thought. When I was turning the throttle the bike would bog down and erratically "cough", almost like it could not breath. I know my intake tract is clear, but is it possible that the butterfly valve on the intake is either stuck or not opening properly? If I pull off my air filter and rev the bike at a standstill, should I be able to see the valve flip open and shut? In other words, is there a way to determine if my butterfly valve on the intake is working like it should be? I was thinking to check that first before I began tinkering with the fuel stuff. Thoughts? (Message edited by gregoxb on September 15, 2015) | ||
| Gregoxb |
BTW, can I use my ECM droid and bluetooth dongle to check for fuel pressure? | ||
| Gregoxb |
So I checked the throttle body intake butterfly valve, it opens and closes and looks perfectly functional. I took the bike out for a test ride locally this morning. It started out ok, just a little off, but then as the bike got warmer the hesitation began again and I was getting more decel popping the longer I rode. I winded out to like 5K RPM and was able to replicate the choking accompanied with stutter. Although, it was not as bad as yesterday. I am positive that if I take it on a longer ride at higher speeds, the bogging down will occur as bad as it did yesterday though. My attention will now shift on the fuel pump. Being that I have a spare assembly in my garage, I believe replacing it will be the best route at this point. Greg_e, I know you mentioned fuel injectors and fuel lines being clogged. If the assembly swap doesn't work, I will look there. I just find it hard to believe that they would be clogged since I have 13.5k miles and I only use 93 octane and Amsoil. But it's possible. Do you think I should flush out my lines and change my injectors while I have the gas drained and the fuel pump out? I still have to check the EBR ECM too..... | ||
| Poppinsexz |
As the Fuel pump is a real pain to change Id save that for last. If it sat overnight and still fired then the pump is probably working(maybe not right but working) Question , is there any smoke? especially when it's choking. It gets worse when hotter? DO you have ECM spy or such that you can hook up. Temperature sensors can have a big effect on fueling and timing | ||
| Greg_e |
I would pull the injectors and fuel rail and take a look at those first, way easier than pulling the pump!!! Head temp might be going out of whack, ecmdroid should show that to you. Haven't used it yet so I'm not sure what it can display. Could it be really leaky intake manifold gaskets? I would think they would need to be really bad before this kind of condition would happen. | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Intake gaskets should cause idle problems and backfiring through the intake. I would be checking the temp first if possible simply because it runs good cold Can you hear the pump prime up when you turn on the run switch? Your description does sound like a fueling problem, any way you can check fuel pressure? Another thought, once hot and you shut down(while running badly). If you go to restart can you hear the pump prime? is there any smoke? (Message edited by poppinsexz on September 15, 2015) | ||
| Gregoxb |
Does it smoke? No, never. Does it get worse when it gets hotter? I can't say for sure. I know it gets worse the longer I ride. I don't know whether the bike feeling hot is caused by an underlying problem or whether it is causing a problem. "It runs good cold." - I would not say that. It runs better cold, but it is still not right. Feels rough, and lacking power at first. It gets progressively worse the longer I ride, until its flat out choking. When it happened yesterday, the bike had been parked for like 5 days and not used. The choking came on when I was deep into my ride. When I rode my bike today, the choking began within 5 minutes. Can you hear the pump prime up when you turn on the run switch? - Yes, it primes, always. I am really leaning toward something being wrong in the fuel pump assembly. Especially since I used to pop fuses like popcorn. Do you guys feel that the fuse popping is significant in any way? (Message edited by gregoxb on September 15, 2015) | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Yes, very Just trying to narrow down other possibilities before hitting the hard one | ||
| Scottykrein |
With ECM Droid, when you turn the throttle does the bar look like it's lagging? It should be super smooth and move with very fine throttle twists. My TPS sensor went and I had similar symptoms. But then again my ecm also went and it had the same symptoms. | ||
| Gregoxb |
I appreciate all your help guys. I will keep this post updated and let you know how things go. | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
I'm in left field but I had a Guzzi with "tank suck" that did that.. the tank was not venting so a vacuum built up and prevented the fuel from flowing out the tank. | ||
| Greg_e |
That a good point and easy to check. If it gets better if you leave the filler open, your vent might be clogged. But it is sounding like it could be something in the pump. Is the pump louder than it used to be? They often get louder before failing. Blowing fuse could just be a chafed wired where it enter the tank. | ||
| Gregoxb |
Louder when it is priming? No, not particularly. I am expecting to find chafed wires when I pull the pump this weekend. One of my concerns is, when I reinstall the new assembly, how can I go about protecting it from going bad again? Protecting the wires, adding Mystery Oil with each fill up? IDK.... (Message edited by gregoxb on September 15, 2015) | ||
| Greg_e |
Cable ties inside should be enough, the insulation normally breaks right where it goes into the aluminum mounting plate. One you get the old assembly out, might be worth rebuilding it to keep on the shelf or sell for a decent price. Or just sell it saying it needs to be rebuilt. I have an extra, so if my pump goes bad again, I can rebuild the extra again and just swap assemblies. Probably never happen again, but you never know. | ||
| Froggy |
The chaffing wires issue was the older fuel pumps, I'm yet to see an 09 that had that happen. There was a batch of 09 pumps that would blow the fuse on hot days with low fuel levels, but it was not an issue with chaffing. The fix is to replace the pump. | ||
| Gregoxb |
I guess I won the fuel pump lottery then. When you say "bad batch" was the exact issue with them known? | ||
| Gregoxb |
Got the fuel pump assembly swapped out toady, easy job. Motorcycle started, idled for 10-15 seconds, then puttered out, then would not restart. Checked the battery, OK. Checked the ECM, OK. Checked all my fuses, OK. Checked the old fuel pump filter for gunk, clean. It looks something like this: You can hear when I turn the ignition it backfires from the exhaust, startled me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. -Greg (Message edited by gregoxb on September 18, 2015) | ||
| Readyxb |
If you have the means, please record some data. It's more of a long shot since it won't start now, but we might get lucky. And if it does run, even for only a few seconds, the data might give a clue. | ||
| Greg_e |
It is cranking pretty slow, but that might just be from running the battery down. Might be worth having a shop check the flow and pattern of the injectors. But it is starting to look like the crank position sensor, or may ecm. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That's plenty of cranking to start it, so something is definitely wrong. The backfire when you turn on the ignition makes me think the crank position sensor might be worth looking at next. Without a scope you will have a hard time testing it thoroughly, but you can at least see if it goes low then high then low again. | ||
| Gregoxb |
I put a new battery today and made sure the Spark plug boots were firmly seated, clipped on. The bike turned over, all seemed well. I went for a 45 minute ride and explored the entire rev range. The hesitation at around 2k rpm slowly started creeping back. I pulled over, did a TPS reset, and rode more. The hesitation returned, and it felt like it was getting progressively more pronounced. Exhaust was getting a little louder than usual, the bike felt vibraty and rough, and the power was being interrupted. P.S. - I have now joined forces with a fellow Bueller who is quiet knowledgeable and will help me with repairs. Together with the input from this thread, I hope this can be solved. (Message edited by gregoxb on September 19, 2015) | ||
| Greg_e |
Get an analog multimeter and check to see if the tps gives a nice smooth sweep when disconnected from the harness and throttle is turned. Hopefully your helper will have a cheap oscope or scopemeter (or real oscope) to check the crank position sensor. Not sure what else to check. |
