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Buellbred
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 07:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi, I'm new to this site and would like to know if anyone has "real" dyno figures for a stock XB12? Also, same question for an XB12 with Buell race kit (ECM, filter, exhaust). I'm contemplating doing this upgrade and am open to suggestions as well. If there are better upgrades then the Buell kit I would appreciate any information you can provide.
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Wyckedflesh
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't have the dyno chart and at the time it was done they didn't know about the little wire to run a Torque check but mine has dynoed at 94RWHP and others here seem to have between 88-94RWHP as well. Stock XB12.
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Dscak
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

XB12, 90 hp, 72 fp tq , K&N filter and snorkle removed. Torque loss of 3 fp from 3500 rpm to 4500 rpm. Same bike, same dyno, different operator, different day, 88.5 hp, 74.9 fp tq, K&N filter, snorkle removed, drummer exhaust and race ecm. Torque curve drop moved to 4000 - 5000 rpm and loss of only 1 fp. Air fuel ratio on stock very flat between 13-14/1. Air fuel on mod bike showed a rich condition over 4500 rpm, which I hope to cure with the FAST intake. Don't have charts avail here on computer so can't attach.
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, I don't have Dyno's either but all that I have looked at seem to come out about 90-93RWHP. The real jewel though is that the torque curve is extremely flat. In the real world this means the power curve is extremely easy to use.
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Xbolt12
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dscak,

Please post those charts if you can get someone to scan them. As you probably know, dyno numbers on xb12's are hard to find (or hard to read ; ). My suspicion for some time has been that mods are not adding much, hence the lack of published numbers. It sure would be nice to have some verification.

I have a stock xb12r except for K&N and snorkel removal (I did leave a trimmed piece up top to seal the airbox).

Anyway, now the bike is pinging more and I am concerned about the mixture. Also I am leaning toward Jardine, because I have actually seen some dyno charts that are readable and show a steady hp gain after 3250 rpm. For all the talk about the drummer, I have still not seen a dyno chart that shows real gains.

You note a torque loss in your post. Does this mean compared with stock (and do you have those numbers), or do you simply mean the torque dips in a certain rpm range.

Anyway, thanks for your post. I does shed some light on things.

xbolt12
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Xbolt12
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

BTW: My post should have said-For all the talk about the drummer, I have still not seen a dyno chart for xb12's that shows real gains.

xbolt12}
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There's one on their sight as I recall. There's one in an XB archive probably about December. It gave 2-3 across the board and waspretty much just as smooth. If you have a 12, it looks like the drummer or the stock pipe is the way to go. The thing is, the Drummer sounds a LOT better. I've heard both, and the Drummer has that "bigger twin" deep sound I like. None of the sound bites I've heard so far quite do it justice.
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Xbolt12
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They will have to post a dyno that is readable before I will shell out the dough. Everyone seems to keep pointing me to the same dyno chart. It looks incomplete to me. Also the numbers and rpm are not readable.

There also was a post where someone was disappointed with dyno numbers that actually showed an hp loss.

Please can someone post a real dyno chart?

Anyone??


xbolt12
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 10:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know the chart you're talking about (It's the same one I recall). That chart does indicate an increase across the board... You are correct though, it does look slightly incomplete.
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Dscak
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 11:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I won't be able to post the charts until next week but will do so then. When I indicated a torque loss, I mean an actual loss. It was a dip from 3500 - 4500 rpm, that maxed at 3 fp actual loss in torque at 3800 rpm (went from 67 fp at 3500 to 63 at 3800). Riding it felt at though it got its second wind so to speat at 4500. The modifications smoothed out the torque curve and the only dip/loss went from 70 fp at 3900 to 69 fp at 4500. Torque remained at or above stock from 2800 until about 6600. Overall, I am very satisified with the changes. In actual riding/seat of the pants type performance, it seems substantially stronger throughout the rpm range at which I normally ride, 3000-6000 rpm. Dan
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 12:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Factory Dyno
Factory Dyno
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Buckinfubba
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



yes there are some glitches in the coil pick up but as you can see the lines the Drummer is above the stock, never claimed big gains infact its been stated to be minimal because the valve works. but its just one dyno and they all read a lil different. the numbers don't matter as much as the power curves you see. about 4 hp and torque across the board. but absolutely no loss on that dyno.



no here is the jardine as you can see the loss there yes its clear but so is the power curve. and yes it has had some issues of breaking.

and if one would go to the knowledge vault or to the drummer site most of your dyno's are right there.

hope this helps......
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Buell_zen
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here is a better copy of the Drummer XB12 chart from Kevin's site.

XB12 with Drummer
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Buellbred
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just curious, what is the "Drummer" exhaust many of you mention?
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Firebolt020283
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

it derives from a stock pipe that kevin and bubba will make in to a better pipe if you send it to them and send them $400. They got a web site bar thingy cuz they are a sponser too so if you see one talking about the drummer click on it and it will tell you more about it.
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Buckinfubba
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

buellbred

go to www.kdfab.com

or just email me at
buckinfubba@hotmail.com
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M1combat
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As I recall the Drummer is $350. I believe an extra $20 or $50 if you want the "fatlet" version.
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Xbolt12
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 07:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Buell_zen!

Buckinfubba, you need to post Buell_zen's copy.


I feel better now about getting a Drummer when I have the money.

BTW, what do you guys think about using the stock ECM (resistor replacing the exhaust servo) and a Techclusion EFI to fatten up the mixture?

Also does anybody know if Techlusion is really going to product the EFI for Buell or is this just a Corey James related con?

xbolt12
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Xbolt12
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 07:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok so now I look at the old dyno 87.2 HP and the new one looks hand written 92? Except to me it looks like the exact same dyno, but traced over to show max hp above 90.

Maybe I'll go with the jardine.


xbolt12
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Xbolt12
Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yep, I compared the old dyno as BuckinFubba posted and the new dyno from KD Fab and Buell_zen's post and there is now absolutely no doubt in my mind that it is the same graph. Sorry to be harsh guys, but the one from the KD Fab website (which appears to be the one in Buell_zens post) looks doctored to me.

Any answers for why this would be???? Is it normal to hand draw (if that is what happened) a line extending peak hp. If the original just did not reproduce well then why does the printed max hp for run 006 show 87.2 or possibly 87.7???. All the other numbers are exactly the same in all the dyno charts I speak of. Also the curves are identical at each RPM point.

xbolt12
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Buckinfubba
Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

yes it was drawn in over the badly printed one. the dyno was done independently from us and then faxed and all that. it is the real line just drawn in to make it readable.

the first one I put up is the wrong one, it is the one where the dyno operated shut down, the dyno run at about 6k rpm thats why it only says 87 hp.


when you do dyno's back to back they will look dang near virtually the same thats why its important to do them on the same day same condtions to be right.

not to get all pissy here, but if you don't trust us then don't buy from us....but you can ask enuff people that I don't lie.......

but then its your money do what you want thats the only way you'll be happy
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Firebolt020283
Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 06:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

well i dont doubt u bubba and when i get my new 2005 xb9r the first thing im doing is yanking the pipe off to send it to yall (after its broken in of course and i ride it for a week or 2)
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Dscak
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

xbolt12. Can't upload the dyno charts, too large and I'm not the most computer literate person. However, send me an email and I'll send it to you. See my profile for the email address. Dan
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M1combat
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Crap - Dan e-mailed me the Dyno today but I was pretty busy at work. I'll try to get to them tomorrow. Sorry to make you wait another day. I still say though, the main reason to choose a Drummer (or ANY aftermarket slip-on) for a 12 is the sound. The exhaust valve works. Problem is, you can't use the exhaust valve with the race ECM... The Drummer so far seems to me to be the one to beat. It looks like all the others sacrifice a good deal down low and the Drummer just seems to add a little bit everywhere. I'll try to post the Dyno tomorrow.
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M1combat
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry, no time to splane...

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Dscak
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

M1, thanks for posting the chart. I've got it from here. Charts are for an XB12S. Pull # 2 is stock, with K&N filter and snorkle removed. Pull # 11 is with K&N filter, snorkle removed, Drummer and race ecm. Both pulls on same dyno, different days, different operators, both were 5th gear pulls. On pull 2, the torque curve is the one beginning about 2250, which has the dip at 3500-4500, and again is the lower line from 4800 to 6k. The hp is again the one which begins at 2250, has the dip which corresponds to the same dip in the tq curve and remains the lower line until right at 6700 rpm. On the A/F values, run # 2 is the flatter of the two. The extremely lean condition indicated at 3k in pull # 11 probably has to do with being unable to insert the probe sufficiently into the Drummer to get a good reading at lower rpm. Again, I remain pleased with the set-up, and believe it to be substantially stronger in the mid-range, where it gets the most use. Dan
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M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 01:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looks good to me : ). And I've heard one... DRUMMER BABY!!!
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Xbolt12
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks M1!

The Dyno seems to show what I've been suspecting. The Drummer has a little less hp (barely) than the stock 12 pipe, yet has more across the range, more torque, a flatter curve, and doesn't need the exhaust valve (less weight). All good things, I was just hoping for a little more on top as well. Hey, I'm greedy-what can I say : )

xbolt12
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Xbolt12
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 06:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wierd how the Race ECM shows a leaner A/F at lower RPMs than the stock ECM. I read the explaination, but it seems like I've seen that result on other dynos as well.

xbolt12
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M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"The Dyno seems to show what I've been suspecting."

Yes, but only when traversing the orange line... I rarely see 6000 unless I'm in fifth gear. The drummer is stronger EVERYWHERE I ride. I'm gettin' one with a race ECM and a techlusion for now. After I punch the holes I'll be going to a Crane HI4-E and whatever aftermarket EFI setup I like : ).

BTW... Do you have those pics of the damper we talked about at the BBQ?
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Xbolt12
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 03:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

M1,

I sent you email.

xbolt12
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Buellbred
Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Which exhaust system looks/sounds best and which one performs best?
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Tpehak
Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2020 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Basically all those aftermarket exhausts make Buell worst. They have huge lack of power and torque up to 4000 RPM comparing with stock setup and just some gain in range 4000-6500 RPM, and 1500-3000 RPM is where Buell 99.9% of time is ridden.

And the peak power of those aftermarket exhausts at 6500-6800 RPM is about the same as stock setup. So if you really need power just rev it up to 6500-6800 RPM and you will have same power on stock setup as on the aftermarket setup, but with stock setup you also have significantly more power in usual RPM range than on the aftermarket exhaust.

(Message edited by TPEHAK on October 01, 2020)
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