| Author | Message | ||
     Johnnyquest |
Hello....I posted a thread on the Ducati Monster List asking for opinions about Buells, and someone posted a link to this website, so here I am! I'm a new rider, will complete the MSF BRC next weekend. I'm considering a Buell Blast as my first bike, then after a year or 18 months go to an 04 XB9S or an 05 XB9SX. I've visited my local dealer to check out the bikes, have seen all the vids on the Buell website, and the design and engineering seem to make sense to me. So, my question to this board is, what do you all think about Ducati Monsters? My original plan was to get a starter bike, then go to a Monster 620 or perhaps an 800. I'm sure most here are fans of Buells, but tell me why I should pick one over a Duc? I won't ask about the blast here, I'll post in the Blast threads. Thanks. JQ | ||
| Darthane |
Johnny, No shame in asking about the Blast here - it's a phenomenal bike to start out on. I did, and I've still got mine, even though there's a XB9R Firebolt parked next to it now. You will not regret using it to get your legs underneath you. As for choosing the Duc over a Buell or vice-versa, only you can really answer that. When you think you're ready, go and ride all of them. The XB9s should be pretty close in terms of price and power to the Duc800s. Think about things like replacement parts cost and dealer support. Are you willing to work on the bikes yourself, or will you be taking it in for all the services? Etc, etc... The XB9s are turning out to be very reliable bikes, so don't let the reputation of Buells former tube-framed bikes get to you. ...never ridden a Monster, though I surely wouldn't turn one down. Love my Firebolt to death, though, and the XB12S I rode was pretty damned fun, too. | ||
| Tgroghan |
THere has always been a certain alour of the Italian sportbikes but the pure engineering of the American bikes has kept my interest too. I grew up on Japanese bikes and none of those brought a feeling to my life like the American bikes. Buells are a conversation piece no matter where you are, from just about everyone. If you ride a Buell, be ready to chat it up with people and answer question. Buell parts replacement are inexpensive compared to Italian parts. Accessories are plentiful and again relatively inexpensive. Ease of maintenance. No valve adjustments on the Buells, that is what initally drew my attention to them. Other maint is straight forward. From what I understand about Duc is that they are like runway models... high maint. Where as Buells... they are like the girl next door.... ready to go out and have fun and SHOWOFF~ Oh lastly vehicle insurance, check that, some folks have found out Buells just are not in their budget for where they live, others pay next to nothing for full coverage (go figure). ENjoy what ever you end up getting~ | ||
| Budo |
Everything Darthane said. Several things to consider. You're dealer will make a very big difference. There are, imho very few good Buell dealers out there. Modesto was probably one of the best but they have moved on to Ducati. The XB's are far better than the tube frame bikes but a number of them are still breaking. A buddy of mine has a Duc, a 2000, M900s. Very nice bike, he has about 6k miles on it with no problems. He was working out of town for quite a while and did not get to ride it. The service interval is higher on the Ducs and more expensive than some bikes. I have ridden his bike and am very impressed. I have ridden the XBR and S and find them to be too small for me but they might be just right for you. If possible demo ride both bikes. Also talk to people who have done business with your servicing dealership. I am not kidding, the service/parts department can break you, mine did. Just do your research, talk to people who have actually done business with whoever will be your servicing dealer. Smart move taking the class. You are going about this the right way. Good luck. | ||
| Bomber |
like th eman said, ride both (as close together in time as possible), and you will know which is right for you . . . . .I was lucky, and rode a 900 MOnster and an M2 within an hour of each other -- the Monster was (is) a great bike, no doubt, and really tempted me andd my long-term Italian bike jones, but the torque and muscularness (izzat a word?) of the Buell made me grin bigger . . . . . . . there's also a Blast in my garage -- great bike for damn near any purpose -- lastly, agreed on the importance of the dealer (any brand) in your equation -- I' not familiar with dealers in your area, but there's lots of good info on this board on them, and you'll get the straight dope here -- I've heard the Monster boards are very similar in that regard good luck, ride safe, have fun | ||
| Shorty_ii |
I have an 03 XB9S and an 03 Monster 1000S. The XB9S would compare more closely with the M800, both in performance and price, although I'd guess you'd likely get the Buell for less. They're both fine bikes but the Buell would be the easier bike for a newbie. Duc has almost no flywheel effect and a fairly abrupt clutch, and the Buell the opposite making it easier to ride especially around town. I think the Monster 620S is overpriced, but if you want a Duc that would be my recommendation. And look for a used one as you may want to upgrade sooner than you may think. Save yourself the big initial depreciation. I know nothing about a Blast but you've got plenty of others here who do. I'd recommend something like one, something small, light, and only moderate power. Remember, it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. (very old saying, and not mine). | ||
| Budo |
I forgot that the Ducs have a tall first gear, requiring a bit of clutch slippage to get them rolling. A common modification is to go down a tooth on the counter shaft sprocket or up one on the rear sprocket. But most people just get used to it. Also the dry clutch on many Ducs are grabby and take some getting used to. Good luck. Have fun out there. | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
When I was looking at buying my current bike, the only other I was considering was a Ducati M750. It was the Senna colors (charcoal grey with red wheels) and was drop dead gorgeous. I never did ride it to get a true impression. I will tell you after owning my Buell for over a year, 8000 miles, zero problems, and tons of new friends met through this very board, I don't regret never taking the Duc for a spin. I think that there are so many good choices right now that you really can't go wrong. It's all what makes you happy. | ||
| Aa5ch |
I owned a stock 03 XB9SL and an 04 M800IE. After opening the airbox and adding Remus carbon fiber mufflers to the Monster, my seat-of-the-pants dyno told me they were pretty equivalent in terms of HP and torque. As mentioned earlier, the Buell is easier to ride in town because of the shorter first gear. The riding position of the Monster is a bit more aggressive than the Buell but both bikes are not exactly rider friendly if one is a bit tall, overweight, or suffering from any back or knee ailments. It is my opinion that the Buell is easier and quicker to lean over into the corners than the Monster, but the Buell seemed more eager to "stand up" once there and required more effort to keep it leaned over. After you have been riding a while, you will better understand what I am referring to. The Buell's suspension is fully adjustable...which is a good thing because one will need to spend some time setting it up to be satisfied with the way it rides and handles. The adjustments seem to be very critical and getting them right for you will take some patience. I don't believe I ever made whatever adjustments were available on the Monster....it just happened to be fine as it came from the dealership. Do not underestimate the annoyance factor of a chain driven bike. I had owned Harley and a couple of Buells before getting the Monster and I had become spoiled on not having to clean, lube, or adjust a chain...you will need to purchase a bike stand to get the rear wheel off the ground or dealing with the chain is even more of a PITA. The belt driven Buell has a great advantage here. Without a doubt, the Buells are easier and less expensive to maintain. The Ducati Desmo engines have been around for a while and give good service, but you really have to stay on top of things to keep them running reliably...if you think you can just change the oil regularly on a Ducati and expect 50,000 miles out of it, you will be sorely disappointed. Dealer support is an issue for both bikes. Although there appears to be a H-D Dealership in every city of any size, the commitment to Buells is very spotty, as others have mentioned. Many have forsaken their local dealership, bought the service manual and do as much work on their own bikes as possible, both to save money and to avoid some dealerships. Buell parts are reasonably priced. Ducati dealerships are relatively few and far between. Some are great...others really suck. You don't have as many choices if your nearby one isn't good. Getting parts for a Ducati can be a nightmare. Everytime I ordered something for mine, it was a major clusterf**k. I paid about the same price for both bikes. The fun factor on both was very high. The Buell sounds awesome [to me] in stock form but I never put a Drummer or other aftermarket exhaust on it. I think that a Ducati engine with aftermarket exhaust is the most awesome sounding bike on the planet. The bottom line for me is this.... I regret getting rid of the Buell. I do not regret getting rid of the Monster. I will probably get another Buell. I will probably NOT get another Ducati. My last piece of advice... take all these factors into account but get whatever "moves you" emotionally when you see it and [hopefully] ride it. Motorcycles are toys. If you think too much about which one to get, you will probably make the wrong choice. Brad | ||
| Whodom |
I looked at Duc Monsters and XB's but ended up getting an S3. Both the Monsters and XB's are very cool bikes. Like the others have said, buy what moves you. You can get Ducati parts on-line now at Parts Fish http://www.powersportspro.com- you can log in and check some typical parts prices if you want to have an idea. As far as the dreaded desmodromic maintenance, there are 2 or 3 webpages with step-by-step instructions for how to do it (here's one http://www.ducatitech.com/2v/maint/adjust/ ), and there is one outfit that makes aftermarket collets that they claim will increase the duration between adjustments to 12k or 18k miles IIRC ; cost about $150 for a 2-valve Duc. Info here http://www.mbpducati.ca/ . I'd definitely look into those if I got a Ducati. That said, damn, it's hard to beat hydraulic valve lifters. I love my Buell! Good luck, Hugh | ||
| Mikej |
"Everytime I ordered something for mine, it was a major clusterf**k. " Brad, Can you give a typical example of what sort of parts problems you've had in getting parts? Thanks. Hugh, Thanks for those links. | ||
| Fullpower |
i have both an XB12S and M620ie in the garage, both are damn fine road bikes. The XB is, for me, the perfect sport-touring-commuter bike. The Ducati M620 is a very nice motorcycle also, and with a few minor adjustments ( handlebar riser block, 14 tooth front drive sprocket) is a nearly perfect all around bike. try to do as many test rides as you can. good luck choosing, they are both great bikes. dean. | ||
| Ingemar |
I had a ducati monster 600 for a couple of days and I didn't like it. Too sensitive to user input. I find the buell much easier to ride, without compromising performance. Also, the way these bikes are tuned is not funny on normal roads. Just forget about getting anything out of it below 4000 rpm..you'll find yourself clutching over parking lots and in slow traffic. The buell accepts anything above 2000rpm without hesitation (at least, mine does  ) | ||
| Fullpower |
It is true, as ingemar observes, that the ducati is geared much taller, has much less flywheel, and a shorter stroke than the buell. it is a bit more abrupt in its throttle on-off transitions, and really likes to be run above 4000 rpm. but there is a lot more revs available: they are still pulling hard at 9000. It may be that the Blast is a better bike for a beginning street rider. | ||
| Ingemar |
I sometimes wish the buell had 12000 rpms to play with .... To elaborate a little more on user input, on-off throttle transition is only one issue of user input. I found the monster got upset from simple corrections while hanging into curves or from getting on the brakes a little abrupt. It was like I needed to prepare the duc for these actions while the buell is much more forgiving and simply does what I tell it to do. (Message edited by ingemar on September 14, 2004) | ||
| Aa5ch |
I tried to order Ducati Performance Kit. Gave the parts guy at the dealership the number from the Ducati catalog. He thought he had ordered them.... after several weeks...no pipes. Turns out they weren't available because Ducati was in the process of changing suppliers. The parts guy said the Ducati software for ordering and confirming parts was a mess... leading one to believe something is en route when it was actually back ordered. Supposedly, it was only after the shipment arrived that the dealer was able to determine that the kit part number [as taken from the 04 catalog] was not just back ordered....it was OBSOLETE.  ...which translated from Italian meant that the supplier had changed and they were back ordered indefinitely. Apparently the glossy Ducati accessories catalog is merely "a suggestion" as to what may or may not be available at some point in the future. Perhaps replacement stock parts are easier to come by. From my experience on the Ducati Monster List, others had similar experiences... inconsistent part numbering, long delays, high cost, fitment issues, etc. The parts guy got on the phone and found one kit stateside and had it shipped from another dealer. I go to pick up the bike...to find that they had received and installed low mounts instead of the high mounts I had ordered. I was advised that the ship date on the new DP pipes could be months. I could have gotten other aftermarket pipes but I'm delusional enough to believe if a dealer installs parts labeled by the company itself, they can't weasel out of a warranty claim. They also did not feel it necessary to trim the fuel/air mix after opening the air box and putting the new pipes on. When I complained that the bike was running too lean and was stalling out whenever I rolled on the throttle..the service manager told me I just wasn't letting it warm up enough. He took off on it and it stalled on him as he left the dealership parking lot. I told my friend who had traveled with that the bike had made my argument better than I ever could have. The service manager later returned from riding it and still maintained that I just wasn't letting it warm up long enough. I hauled the bike home 175 miles and it [not surprisingly] ran like crap...classic symptoms of running too lean. The service manager became argumentative with me over the phone when I told him that it appeared to be standard practice at other dealerships to trim f/a ratio after making those mods...not a remap, just a tweak within the stock map's parameters. Perhaps all of my problems were a result of a crappy dealership, but that was the only dealership within 200 miles. I thought it best to bail out of my "Ducati experience." I never had trouble getting parts / accessories for the Buell when I needed them [thanks to Dave !] and my limited experience with a couple of H-D dealerships [scheduled maintenance on the Buells] was positive... YMMV...as always Ahemm...we now return you to your regular programming. Rant off. | ||
| Mikej |
Thanks for the rant, it helps to know when deciding future plans. As always, the dealership variable is usually the most significant variable in any marque's ownership experience. | ||
| Johnnyquest |
Wow, can't believe how many posts there were to my questions, thanks so much for all the input!! I'm really starting to realize that people just like what they like....I've heard from Ducati folks who've ridden both and preferred the Ducati, and now I've heard from folks here who have ridden, and in some cases owned both, and prefer the Buell. I think I'll get the Blast as my first bike.....I think I can talk the dealer down to around $2100 for a used 2003 model. Then, after my skills and confidence elevate I'll look into an XB9s or sx. As nice and sexy as the Ducatis are, I really think I'll enjoy not having to do valve adjustments or chain maintenance. Hey, TucsonXB9S, I'm also from Tucson! 8000 miles with no problems? That sounds excellent! Maybe after I get my Blast we can meet up for coffee or something, I'd love to check out your bike and pick your brain about the local dealership, maintenance, how our hot summers affect the Buells, local places to ride, etc. Again, thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I'll post up again after I finish my BRC. JQ | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
Dang Johnny...didn't even look at your profile!We have a great group of enthusiasts here and in Phoenix. We will have to get together for sure! Lots of local twisties to explore. Check the Arizona thread in the Stormfronts section for updates on rides and such. Good luck with your bike shopping! See ya soon. | ||
| M1combat |
From Prescott here... Feel free to let me know if you would like me to give you a tour of the local twisty roads... | ||
| Johncr250 |
Both bikes are great. Right now Buells seem to have a really poor resale value, where Duc`s seem to hold their value much better. Personally i recommend the MonsterR with the 998 motor. | ||
| Johnnyquest |
Quote: "Check the Arizona thread in the Stormfronts section for updates on rides and such. " Thanks, I'll have to check that out! JQ |
