G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » XBoard » Archive through September 18, 2014 » Transmission problems. « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 12:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Everyone pretty much says that the XB tranny is bulletproof. I have an XT and I can't remember anyone saying anything about having problems. Since they're all the same I thought I'd ask here to find out from a larger audience. With only 22K miles third gear will start jumping under even the slightest load. Just starting the long process of taking the bike apart but wondering if anyone else had problems with their tranny?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Natexlh1000
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thankfully, I haven't had any tranny issues.
The only driveline issues I had were related to water getting into the primary and killing a clutch bearing and the primary cover lips popped last fall.

"Bulletproof" is a bit strong.
I would suggest "sufficiently strong most of the time". Or "Better than an ironhead".
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Xbgeorge
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is pretty common. Mine is doing it too. The most likely cause is the dogs on third gear. You will have to split the cases to fix it. I still ride mine, but I've been shifting past third for about 1000 miles now. Maybe this winter I will tear into it. The bike's torque allows it to be ridden in a spirited fashion still. I would like to thank Buell, EBR, and Drummer for the torque.

FYI, mine started around 25,000 miles.

(Message edited by xbgeorge on July 01, 2014)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But third is the "FUN" gear.
Yeah, I put about 300 miles on it and it was just getting worse by the day. Besides, on the last ride the CEL came on with two codes. Quick check seemed to indicate the components are good so I need to check the harness. Easier to do with the engine out.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a spare transmission (still inside cases) if you need some parts
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jocarr83
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well mine just started doing the same thing, if I'm gentle with the throttle it's fine but if I kind of romp on it in third it'll jump a couple times. Is there anyone in the northern Illinois area that could help me tear into it and fix it? I don't want to pay a dealer an arm and leg if I can do it myself. Also anyone have a spare tranny I could get parts from or know where I can get parts for one?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 05:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Remember this name. R&D Motorsports. They are in Florida. They are the best transmission shop anywhere. Period. Their client list is a who's who of the racing world. I would let no one else touch my transmissions.

It is worth it. If you do use them, when you get the parts back, you will want to put them on display instead of hiding them inside the engine. And if it was mine, I would see about having the shift drum polished and cryo treated. And you most likely have at least one shift fork whacked.

I gain nothing personally from this recommendation. I just want you guys to get the best.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Greg_e
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How about JT&S or Cycle Rama who are advertisers on this forum? Might want to have the crank balanced and big end bearing checked while it is getting serviced.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fireman Jim is associated with JT&S, that speaks volumes. And I have known Wes and Pammy at CycleRama for many years, and they are top rate, but I am unsure if CycleRama does their own transmission work, or drive across the bay and have Mark and crew at R&D do it for them.

I'm sure you can't go wrong either way. Between those three alone, there are MANY speed, ET, and horsepower records.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2014 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Had a lengthy discussion with R&D today. Apparently there are some design flaws with the XB/Sportster tranny. The good news is that in most cases the tranny can be salvaged without having to replace any parts. All it needs is some precision machining to make it work the way it's supposed to. Finally got my engine out yesterday. Now for the long disassembly process.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2014 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As Court would say, you will be amazed.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim2
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2014 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Read the info at this link. This is probably why there are so many report of worn dogs on these transmissions. I have yet to apply this information to mine but I think I'm going to shim it when I replace my worn dogs. I have a friend that just did his and says it's not that hard as long as you have a good set of quality snap ring pliers designed to work with the rings that don't have the holes in them. Sears has one that is up to par for this task. Of course we both have M2's with a cartridge transmission so it's much easier for us to do.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NOOQjPWkBy4C&pg=P A192&lpg=PA192&dq=sportster+transmission+shim&sour ce=bl&ots=-tZWew-SKF&sig=AS93MvqA0MMeRlqjvCRoiYYuV 88&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NGm8U-jUMpakyASC_4HwAw&ved=0CGcQ6 AEwCg
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ducbsa
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2014 - 06:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The tools listed include a 1-1/5 in. socket. Does Sears have those? Seriously, what do they really mean?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim2
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2014 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Forget the tool size differences. It's about making the gears mesh properly using shims. It's about making the tranny shift better and hopefully last longer. It's easier to understand the shim part if you have a transmission out in your lap and see how the gear dogs don't fully engage during a shift.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Natexlh1000
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2014 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How can you shim the cluster if there is no trap door?
Also, does this shimming apply to the newer "dogring" style trannies?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2014 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you read the article closely, you'll see that shimming is only a patch for a poor design. That plus you'll have to make your own shims. I think I'll stick with R&D where the tranny is made to work properly.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim2
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 05:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good points nate. I'm glad my m2 has a trapp door transmission.

Griff, let us know what R&D does to improve things. Details if you can.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

UPS dropped off my tranny today, YEAH! Now I have to put everything back together, boo.
In my case, third gear, 2-3 dog and 2-3 fork were beyond saving and had to be replaced. After they had all the parts, R&D would set each piece from 2nd gear and up on an indexing jig and put a 5 degree back cut on each dog and socket to ensure positive engagement under power. I think he said some area on my 2nd gear had to be hardfaced and recut. All the parts are beautifully cleaned. I don't know how but looks like some type of blasting method. It even looks like the fork surfaces were polished, all of my original forks look like they were never used. Beyond that the parts were reassembled per factory spec with new circlips, output shaft plug and o-ring. When finished everything was oiled and well wrapped for a safe trip home.
Now I just need a few parts that I had to special order. Should have done that sooner but they'll be here by Friday. I'll try and get some pics posted if I can figure out how to resize them.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Teeps
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds expensive...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nice! The result is possibly superior to a brand new transmission.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The result IS better than a new transmission. A lot of shops use a grinder to do the back cut because the gears are hardened. They clean and magnaflux all the parts. If they pass inspection and are within tolerances, they anneal the gears and do the required cutting on an indexing mill using rotary cutters. Components are modified as needed.

The components are then re-heat treated, double checked for correct index, cleaned using a combination of shot peen and rotary tumble, reassembled, checked in a fitting jig, (In some cases such as Kawi "H" motors, you have to send the engine cases also to custom fit the parts)lubricated and packaged.

They started out doing only import drag race transmissions. Now they can tackle almost anything. Road racers get "double back cut" for positive engagement when up shifting or down shifting.

They have passion for their work, and deliver. Cost is relative.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 01:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Nice! The result is possibly superior to a brand new transmission."

That's why I went this way. The stock cut on the gears does nothing to ensure engagement and will start wearing the leading edge from day one. In time the wear will start forcing the gears apart under load which is what took out my third gear, dog and fork. I could have spent $200 to replace these three parts plus another $300 in engine parts and forty hours plus of labor only to have another gear set cause the same problem in a few more miles. Option two would be to put in everything new which would bring the cost close to what I paid anyhow and not address the issues that caused this in the first place.

Besides, now I can brag and show the receipt that says "Race Cut".
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dwilson357
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 07:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So what was your total cost to send it out and have your work done?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Besides, now I can brag and show the receipt that says "Race Cut".




Hopefully they include a sticker you can put on the bike! : )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Teeps
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Griffmeister Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2014 -
The stock cut on the gears does nothing to ensure engagement and will start wearing the leading edge from day one.
In time the wear will start forcing the gears apart under load which is what took out my third gear, dog and fork.


The above statement is absolutely true, for an improperly spaced gear set.
However, a properly spaced "stock" gear set will provide tens of thousands of service life.
As evidenced, here, by lack of similar transmission problems reported.

I believe, your experience is the exception rather than the rule.

Don't get me wrong, I would probably opt for the competition cut gears, too. If my Ulysses suffered the same problem.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 10:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So what was your total cost to send it out and have your work done?

Because I needed three new parts as well as build up on another gear my cost came in just under $1100. If a trans can be saved with a recut you'll be closer to $800 give or take. Remember, there is a lot of machine work done here as well as inspection, cleaning and assembly.

Yeah, I got stickers.

"The above statement is absolutely true, for an improperly spaced gear set."

The problem is that this tranny was designed for production which is why there isn't a shim set listed in the parts book. All the parts are off the shelf and installed as shown. I guess it's a crap shoot on tolerance "stacking" which will occasionally result in shorter than normal life.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Friday, August 15, 2014 - 01:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

IIRC, the shimming was only on some early Sportsters and none of the tube frames I had and esp not on any XB. And have used the services of R and D on my Busa and love it!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gabby_duck
Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2014 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

For info what oil are we using in the primary I'm using amsoil 20w50
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Griffmeister
Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2014 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Always used the stock HD Formula trans oil. It's clutch and stator friendly, even R&D said you won't find a big difference between what you are able to put in there. If only the trans and primary were separate then you could use something more suitable for a gear box.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

46champ
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2014 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There were several code words and phrases in this thread. Let us see a few:
So what was your total cost to send it out and have your work done?
They have passion for their work, and deliver. Cost is relative
Sounds expensive

If only the trans and primary were separate then you could use something more suitable for a gear box.

Does this mean they did it correct with the BIG TWIN all along thus pray tell why are we building expensive sport bikes with one sump with one flavor of oil for everything.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Teeps
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2014 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds expensive is not code; as further down my assessment/assumption is proved to be correct, when he disclosed a cost of $1100.
That was just the gear box repair cost. It doesn't count the tear down and reassembly of the engine. To get to the gear box.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2014 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Between my two drag bikes, I kept complete spare transmissions. I swapped them out twice a year and sent them in to get freshened up.

Sometimes it was inspect and return. Sometimes they found a crack in a gear or two.

It's called predictive maintenance. I never lost a round due to transmission failure.

But it is MUCH easier to service a transmission on an old Kawi KZ.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

46champ
Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2014 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In reality the price paid for the work done was quite reasonable. I wish I could get a 4 speed Sportster done for that amount.
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration