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Cattywampus
Posted on Sunday, April 28, 2013 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

hello all, i am experiencing nasty withdrawals having my bike down in the midst of this beautiful socal weather.

2007 XB12STT - 12K mi

almost at wit's end. here's the rundown:

4/12 - ran bike out of gas and believe i burned up fuel pump although i can still hear the pump priming as usually prior to start up and sounds like it did before. throwing trouble code 21 but as i have read, this typically will not cause a 'no start' condition.

4/16 – removed fuel pump from bike and found a couple nicked wires and a filthy looking screen. Ordered new parts from American Sport Bike along with ECM SPY Cable.

4/19 – received new screen, o-rings, low fuel level sensor, fuel filter for a ‘rebuild’ of my existing fuel pump (12k mi on bike). Repaired the wires, installed all the bits, buttoned it all back together and fired the bike up.

It started almost immediately and cleared itself of Trouble Code 21 (exhaust servo). The ‘constantly ON’ low fuel light also went away. It coughed and backfired a bit, then died. I restarted this time allowing the bike a little more fuel (no blipping) and it stabilized. I allowed it to idle for roughly 5 minutes, the bike sounded great. JOY. I didn’t take the bike for a test ride though since the family was starving so out to dinner we went. Approx. 2hrs elapse and I come home to take the bike out for a shake-down run. NO LOVE. This time she exhibited all the same symptoms of the first failure. Healthy-sounding fuel pump priming, strong cranking indicating sufficient battery power, just no ignition.

I read up on the ECM Spy connection procedure and downloaded the necessary drivers. Immediately got the software working and did a diagnostics on all the various systems which seemed to check out okay. I cleared trouble code 21, reset the TPS & AFV, went for a restart, again, NO LOVE. Disconnected the battery and let sit overnight.

4/20 – Attempt to restart, NO LOVE. Same Trouble Code 21, no ignition.

checked rear spark plug and was bone dry

4/27 - removed fuel pump assy again (love draining that fuel), this time replacing pump with one from autozone (kit E2366). turned bike on (fuel pump is amazingly quiet now) bike fired right up and sounded great just like the last time on 4/19. tps & afv reset. all is good. let it idle for a good 10minutes to reach 285F engine temp so i could again adjust idle to 1050-1150 RPM. when engine temp hit around 230F the engine died. this time i get fuel pump trouble code 11. short of throwing $400 for a brand new OE fuel pump assembly, anything else i should be on the lookout for? fuel pump wiring looks good, spark plugs look good, no bad wires in or around ecu, all ground connections good, good voltage to battery. could it be a bad ecu?? bite the bullet and buy the fuel pump? UGHHHHHH

(Message edited by cattywampus on April 28, 2013)
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Teeps
Posted on Sunday, April 28, 2013 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So which dtc do you have, 11 or 21?
Note: Neither of which have to do with the fuel pump.

DTCs below are from:
http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/General-Moto rcycle-Chat/up-dated-dtc-list

11 Throttle position sensor
21 inter active muffler control (can be turned off in ECM Spy)
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Cattywampus
Posted on Sunday, April 28, 2013 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have dtc11 right now.
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Cattywampus
Posted on Sunday, April 28, 2013 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Upon installation of the re-worked fuel pump, it ran great for about 10min and just died. This happened twice. Are these typically symptoms of a bad tps sensor, ECM related, or a possible short within the fuel pump assy? Again, I see no obvious signs of damaged wiring in the harness.
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Greg_e
Posted on Sunday, April 28, 2013 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Are you blowing fuses?

The fuel pump rebuild should be fine, pretty much the same thing I did to mine and it worked fine for 2000 miles before the snow hit and my started was failing so I stopped riding for the winter.
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Cattywampus
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

not blowing any fuses. i guess the next logical step would be to replace the tps sensor....or worse yet.......a trip to the dealer!
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Teeps
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 12:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cattywampus Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 08:37 am:

not blowing any fuses. i guess the next logical step would be to replace the tps sensor....or worse yet.......a trip to the dealer!


Yes you could replace the sensor, but I would check the wires and connections first.
Then see this thread before you do.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/710089.html?1366129387

or

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27 3568&page=2&highlight=tootal
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd do a deep dive into the wire bundle where it goes around the steering head and dives under the frame and look for cracked wires (conductor cracked, insulator fine).

It's a common problem, and cause no end of wierdness. I'd bet you can go from start to finsh and have it fully checked in 90 minutes.

You might find nothing. You might find a problem not manifesting yet. You might fix your issue. I'd invest the time just to cross it off the list of current or imminent problems.
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Cattywampus
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

thanks guys, will check it out and report back. doing all i can do get this figured out on my own!
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Sifo
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would hook up EcmSpy and watch the TPS values as you open and close the throttle. If it's jumpy or inconsistent, then there's a TPS problem for sure. Wouldn't hurt to monitor while running just to see what it's doing when the bike dies.

The fuel pump is likely OK, but could be checked for proper pressure if you can find someone with a proper gauge. My manual says it should be regulated to 49 PSI.

Does it stumble as it dies, or does it just suddenly switch off? To me stumbling and running poorly could be one more symptom that could point to a TPS issue.
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Cattywampus
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

hi Sifo,

the last two times after i reinstalled the fuel pump, upon start up, th bike would run fine then simply die after several minutes. no warning, no sputtering, no stumbling just caput. reason i keep dinkin with the the fuel pump is because i could crank the bike for a solid 10-15 seconds and remove a plug and find it bone dry as if fuel just aint flowin. this is with the front or the rear plug.
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Sifo
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 08:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That does make it sound like a fuel issue. It's hard to say without the proper diagnostic tools. ECMSpy is a great help and might clue you in on a bad sensor, but it would be nice to verify that the pump is keeping pressure up too. I would clear the codes with ECMSpy and see what comes back. If it keeps throwing a code for the TPS, it's likely gone bad. I don't know how good of a dealer you have nearby, but they should be able to diagnose it properly. If they are like my local dealers you would be better just throwing parts at it until it runs again. Sometimes multiple things do manage to fail at the same time. It seems odd that the pump sounds good even when it won't start. Stupid question time. There is fuel in the tank, right?
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Andersonhdj
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 04:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Would'nt be the first time, i've seen it a few times, people pull the fuel line and a little bit runs out so there must be fuel, then jam it straight back on!
Naah! Wrong! Leave it run a second or two, then you know with certainty!
Been called out a couple of times in the dead of night for this one!
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Cattywampus
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

thanks guys. i definitely have fuel as i had to drain the system to remove the fuel pump. as soon as i buttoned her back up, another 1.5-2 gallons went in.

Sifo, i hear you. last thing i want is the bike returned to me in worse shape than when it left (with a lighter wallet to boot)

removed the tps last night and it does look beat up although the wires were not loose. since it's an 07, i couldn't use the autozone unit (tps213)



(Message edited by cattywampus on April 30, 2013)
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Cattywampus
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 08:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

tried to post pic but site not cooperating. perhaps firewall at work.
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Gater
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a 2004 XB12S. I am starting to notice some fuel issues sometimes when it is cold the bike stalls out just after it starts and I have to go through the steps again to start it. Sometimes when the fuel is getting low and splashing around in the tank it acts like it is starving for fuel. It will bog down.
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Boston
Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2013 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

try IAT ( intake air Temp Sensor) i know my bike idle kinda funny then luckly for me when i went for inspection it wouldn't start even tho i drove it their.After about 15min of the tech cranking over my bike he found that my IAT was disconnected ann he plugged it in and started up and ran fine. had no check engine light on either
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2013 - 05:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Read and consider, 07 Super TT too, oddly enough:

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/670462.html?1352419620
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2013 - 06:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Excerpt from the thread I linked to, Reep helping Ford try to locate broken wiring issue:

Posted on Friday, August 31, 2012 - 02:08 pm:
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
OK, that probably makes it less likely to be the cam position sensor.

I'd look closely at the wire harness bundle where it goes down and out from under the flyscreen and down under the frame. Don't just look for completely split wires, run each through your finger and feel for internal breaks (they are fairly obvious by feel if you have one).
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