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Caucapon
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thinking of purchasing a 2007 XB12S with fewer than 7,000 miles. I've run across several threads focusing on crankshaft failure in the 12 engine, primarily if not entirely within the Ulysses model.

How prevalent, if at all, are these failures in XBs?

Thanks in advance.

Al
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thats a great question. As an owner of an 07, I was acutely interested and started doing a decent amount of work tracking them.

The result was "odd". There was what appeared to be a significant cluster of failures... many more than would seem reasonable, even accounting for our haphazard data collection (only people self reporting to this forum).

But once we collected that "first batch" and got what appeared to be an alarming trend.... silence. No more problems.

I can't come up with a good explanation for it....

I'm trying to find the thread with the summary now... I'll post here when I find it.

Personally, as an owner, I really hope my crank doesn't fail, but if it does, I'll just rebuild the motor and move on. I got my Uly for $5000 and have put on 20k+ miles over a couple of years and could not be happier with it. If the crank lets go tomorrow, I'll pay for the parts to fix it, and happily ride the bike for another 50k miles. The cost of used Uly's is SOOO good right now, they can have a tragic flaw and still be a good buy. And most still don't fail, the odds are WAY in your favor.

That's my humble opinion anyway...

Found it! Here is the thread. Been a long time since anything updated, we should get milage updates from people...


http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/648773.html
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Trojan
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Crankshaft failures are actually pretty rare across the range when you consider them against totla numbers built. The problem is that people who suffer with them tend to post about it on here (a bit like the 'I knew a bloke who knew a bloke who's suspension snapped' horror stories of old). Those that don't suffer just keep riding happily along.

Unless you are going to tune the t*ts off it, and are happy to check and change the oil more than just occasionally I wouldn't worry unduly.

I'm sure if you look on BMW/HOnda/Yamaha/Enfield forums you'll find plenty of other horror stories relating to them too. The more you look into them and worry the less enjoyment you will get from your bike ; )
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Sifo
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've got over 50K on my '06 with no engine problems so far. I was a bit concerned to hear of crank failures too, but I'm in for better or worse. I'm of the opinion that trying to rev the 12 a lot may lead to problems. I have no data on that though. I let my engine do what it does best, use mid-range power. Running a long stroke 45 degree twin fast just seems like you are asking for trouble. Still the simple reality is that most of them have not blown up. The internet tends to get the complaints out there, but doesn't balance that with who knows how many people stay quite because they have had no problems.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you want to share your build date and milage Sifo, I'll add you to the registry. We are collecting VINs as well, but if you don't want that posted the build date is good enough.
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Sifo
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 07:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No problem Reep.

Built in March '06

VIN 4MZJX03D063601961

About 54,000 miles.
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Trojan
Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 08:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We used an 05-06 Uly engine for our 2006 race bike. Other than Wiseco pistons (+40 thou bore), roller rockers, dry/belt drive primary and different exhaust/intake systems it was bone stock.

This ran at (and above)the red line constantly all year with absolutely no problems or worries. It certainly got more flat out thrashing than a road bike would get in years of use that's for sure.

The bottom end was pretty bulletproof, although we made sure that we used decent oil (Torco synthetic) and changed it very regularly.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All updates made to the tracking table at the top of the page.
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Spacecapsule1
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

anyone tracking 08 crankshaft failures? Mine failed at 52k.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Got a VIN and a build date Space? I'd like to add it to the registry.

See the top of the page here for information we are collecting:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/648773.html
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Andersonhdj
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 10:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So i got the motor rotated, pulled the front jug and it's definetly a shot crank.
XB9SX 2003
Vin # 5MZKX12J353100282

The sticker on the headstock says manufactured Aug 2004, but i'm sure my paper work indicates it's a 2003, can't have been registered before it was manufactured, though this is South Africa, the murder,rape and corruption capital of the world, anything is possible.
Will have to check the title again.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Congratulations : ( That's the first 9 we have recorded for a failed crank.
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Andersonhdj
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gee Thanks fella!! Do the numbers make sense?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think that all makes sense, we haven't been tracking 9 failures, just 12 failures. it's easier to sanity check those because we can see where the slot in with each other based on VIN.

I'm not sure how I want to record it yet... on the same table, or a seperate table for 9's? The cranks *are* different...
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Andersonhdj
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Reep, Yeah i am aware they are different, i thought it pertinent though to supply the info because the failures on 9's are said to be rare
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Spacecapsule1
Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 08:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Reep,

August 2007
VIN 4MZXX03DX83800061
52k
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks! Updated. Sorry your crank went. : (

Thanks Andersonhdj, I logged yours as well in a new section.
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Bumpnzx3
Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a high compression XB12r of the 2005 variety. It's been a track bike since day one- still going strong. It has a 12 crank and 9 pistons. Like Trojan mentioned- it's been beat on much, much more than a street bike. It could stand to have the heads gone through- but no lower end problems.
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Djohnk
Posted on Saturday, March 23, 2013 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm on the list above, up to about 56K miles now with no probs.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I get the impression that it's not so much the strain put on an engine via compression or higher RPMs, but the amount of total revolutions the crank assembly accumulates.
Of course, the GOOD cranks don't fall apart but the bad ones only manifest themselves after a decent amount of miles.
I say this because most of the victims here just rode the bike on the street and didn't abuse them at all.

How many of the bad cranks failed under the factory warranty period? Not too many, right?

I think it's the same sort of thing that was killing the tuber engine oil pump gears.
They all work right off the bat but it takes a long time for the errors to multiply out to failure.
You get past a certain number of miles, it seems, and you're not a "winner".
For instance, the oil pump gear B.S. seemed to happen around 15K-25K When I found out about it, my bike already had over 40,000 on it so I got a good one.
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Ktmguy
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Has anything else been tracked on the issue..
such as what oils are being used, Modifications done, climate, type of usage, etc??
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I really wonder about the detonation issue. Lot's of folks, myself included have had detonation issues on XB12's. I spent a fair amount of time tuning my bike to perform better and eliminate the detonation. I'm sure many owners are just ignorant to what detonation is and what it sounds like. I don't mean that to a slam against anyone, but many people just are not experienced gearheads. Detonation is brutal on a ball bearing bottom end. Unchecked it WILL cause failure. Mine was right in the middle of the mapping too, in the 3,200 - 3,500 RPM range at about 40-60 percent throttle. It would be no problem at all on a track bike, but right in the sweet spot for riding around dealing with traffic. I have no idea how to work this into any collected data though.
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Ktmguy
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 11:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I may be experiencing detonation now.. On mine I get a slight top end rattle right at 2500-2900 rpm in the 20% throttle opening or so.. More throttle goes away, less throttle, goes away. its definitley not in the bottom end, and began after an oil change last season. I only put about 1000 miles on it sense then, and its gotten no worse, nor seems to effect anything. Was thinking the oil change maybe dislodged some particles etc.. Il see if the new oil change corrects or it or changes it. It runs fantastic though, no complaints!
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Spacecapsule1
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sifo mine did the same thing. Stock ECM and EBR ecm. I sent the EBR back 2 times for that issue. They never fixed it, so i took up trying to learn tunerpro. Just as I was beginning to understand it, my crank pooped out so I never got the chance to try and tune it out. I really don't know what the root cause was though. Oil pressure checked out on the low side, but still within service manual tolerances.
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wound up taking some timing out of some of the cells using ECMSpy. Stock ECM BTW. I know that in theory that probably takes away from performance, but when you are detonating, the performance goes away anyway. Riding in hot weather made the situation MUCH worse. The reality is that, this low in the RPM range and at partial throttle, performance isn't really of much concern. This is one of those things that I think Buell failed to get right, but can be fixed.

Back on topic, ball bearings aren't the best choice for the bottom end of an engine. Just look at the vast majority of engines whether they be the most basic commuter vehicle, or all out racing engine. It's a compromise necessary for the HD design V-twin. Once a ball in the race gets damaged, it's only a matter of time. So what will damage these bearings? IMO, foreign matter in the oil, detonation, and high RPM with a 45 degree twin all are suspect. They actually will survive quite well with very low oil pressure, so as long as the pump is working at all, I doubt the pump is an issue.

Having said all that bad stuff about roller bearings, I have had 2 Sportsters, a Twin cam, the Buell and a Suzuki GT750, all with roller bearing bottom ends and zero failures, so I don't see it as total gloom and doom. Just a weak spot in the design.
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Jazzprof
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here are my numbers:
2006 Uly- owned since new
4MZDX03DX63701949
Build date Nov 05
Going strong at 62,600 miles!
Sure it sounds like a lot is going on in there,but it's been that way since new. My fix- ear plugs
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 08:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Logged and updated! Nice to see another seriously high milage Uly!
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Djohnk
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

update: 57000 miles now on mine
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Magnum
Posted on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

UK bike Crankshaft failure on my xb9s 2003
29K on the clock.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry to hear that Magnum. Unusual on an XB9.

Can you share a VIN and a build date?
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Magnum
Posted on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 06:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Think it's 2002 built,registered 01 2003 and VIN is 4MZSX12J033450732.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 07:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Logged, thanks!

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/648773.html?1374261251
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