| Author |
Message |
    
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:45 am: | 
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The problem isn't the triple, it's the frame. Other bikes have a beefy attachment point on the frame for reacting the load against. The fuel in the frame XB with the filler nozzle all the way to the front really puts a hurtin on the primo real estate for that hard point. Apparently there's over 1k of force on that little reaction pin. Makes sense when you think about how short that little moment arm is to resist those tank slappin forces on the whole front end.
I thought of something that I'm pretty sure would work elegantly, but I doubt it'll ever see the light of day due to product liability reasons. Pop your gas cap. Look down, you'll see a plate that is held to the frame with 5 10-32 bolts. The plate is for the gas cap cam lock. My idea is that one could machine a "filler neck extension" billet piece that bolted there. It would provide th hard point for the pin riser as well as an identical interface into the gas cap, just 1/2" higher. The geometry is simple and elegant.
The problem? We're talking the gas cap here, on a bike with the fuel in the frame with FEM modeling and testing to ensure that the steering stem rips off the bike before rupturing the frame fuel tank (or so I hear). Forks rip off, take tank cap retention with it, big ball of flame, bigger lawsuit.
I wonder about that on the sport bikes as well. As often as not, the bolts that the bracket reacts against is one that retains the gas tank.
Bummer, I really want that type of stabilizer for an XB, it'd be the ticket. I love the one on my wife's SV, and they're WAY sweet on a trail bike. The Storz and Hyperpro (tuber) units are very nice, and work very well. But the finger tip adjustability of the Scotts units is pretty nice. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 07:42 am: |
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Here is something a little different. Ohlins rotary steering damper fitted to an Italian XB12R. Very cool!
 |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:20 am: |
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Veerrrry interesting.
Hey Al, think the front tabs there could react the loads? That is a clever way to get the Ohlins/Scotts working.
My out of calibration eyeball tells me that gizmo is a little lightweight but the concept is good.
Looks like a cool idea though I don't know what would happen to the 2 tabs it's mounted to if you were to tip over. You'd probably want to design that bracket to fail before breaking the tabs off the chassis.
Still, cool concept - kinds sounds similar to what Al was talking about.
Whatchya think about an adhesively bonded mount on both sides of the chassis neck that could be bolted onto? That way it'd be more survivable in a crash and you could replace the mounts should one get damaged in a fall.
Gotta run... dyno today! (FINALLY) |
Battleblue03
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:47 am: |
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Trojan,
Where did u find that pic, looks like a good sound idea just need some improving, Looks like that person also changed the triple clamp as well. I would like to talk to that person to get some ideas. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 09:43 am: |
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Hmmm, that's an Ohlins damper? Sure looks like a Scotts. Licensed?
I looked at those hard points, and after hearing about the forces involved, rejected them. They're good for holding on a tank bag, but I don't think they're up to the task.
But you're onto something with the designed breakaway. As I was researching that gas filler extension concept, it occurred to me that one could notch the reaction pin tower in such a way to design it to break at forces below the steering stem breakaway force, but above the 1200 lb pin tower steering stabilizer reaction force. But since I don't know the rip away force on the frame, and I'm not likely to buy 20 frames and test them to destruction to determine it, I didn't run with it.
Al |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:40 am: |
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Are these things subject to wear? Should a stabilizer be replaced at some point? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:47 am: |
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A stabilizer is a form of a shock absorber, and just like other moving parts stuff wears out sometimes and needs attention and rebuilding or replacement. |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
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So then, how long can it be expected to last?
How do you know it is in need of attention? |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:46 pm: |
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>>How do you know it is in need of attention?
When you start getting headshake that can't be explained by loose steering head bearing, cupped front tire, etc. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:58 pm: |
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Forget about adapting the Honda HESD, its tied in with the ECU.
......and when they launch the VFR1200, it'll have traction control too!
Rocket |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:02 pm: |
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I have my doubts that Honda will punch the V5 out to 1200; regardless, the V5 won't go in a sport-tourer first, its going to go in a RVF-1000. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:50 pm: |
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Topic.  |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 01:11 am: |
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Al,
Ohlins bought the Scott's steering damper line just a little while ago.
I think new ones even say Ohlins on the body.
(edit) - I think the real deal is that Ohlins designed and Scotts builds it. Prolly still says Scotts on the body.
(Message edited by slaughter on August 19, 2004) |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 06:21 am: |
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Well Stunt fella, there's pictures all over this weeks MCN, including the front cover, and some Honda insider, read journo speak for scoop, reckons the VFR1200 is gonna replace the Blackbird, and it's gonna happen before the rumoured RCV1000 road bike.
The first RCV was effectively a V5 RC45. Using a 2003 Fireblade bore and cylinder, that would give 1192cc. If they lengthen the stroke, like they did on the 04 Blade, that would give 1247cc. The VFR1200 will feature sophisticated traction control that can determine the change in circumference of the tyre as it rides on its sides. They're also going to fit (topic Blake) their HESD steering damper 
Rocket |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 09:42 am: |
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Well Rocketman, MCN is the motorcycling equivalent of the Weekly World News so I'd take their "scoops" as the literary fantasies they usually are. Entertaining stuff for sure, but not necessarily grounded in reality. If it showed up in Bike as fact I'd put more faith in it.
>>The first RCV was effectively a V5 RC45.
Slightly more to it than that, unless you consider the Desmosedici effectively a V4 888.
(Message edited by TBS_Stunta on August 19, 2004) |
Misato
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 11:42 am: |
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I want that one in the picture |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 11:43 am: |
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Fuell for the fire... VFR1200 revealed:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?page=motorcyclenews.articles.articleCategory.a rticle&resourceId=1166298&articleCategory=NEWS_NEW-BIKES |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 11:50 am: |
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Nice Gixxer headlight on their illustration. |
Dano_12s
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 01:06 pm: |
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D.J.-don't hesitate on this upgrade! Remember hindsight is always 20/20.Well worth the $$$.Storz is the ones I use |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 09:03 pm: |
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I'd take their "scoops" as the literary fantasies they usually are. Entertaining stuff for sure, but not necessarily grounded in reality.
You would. You're not living over here. I've had this argument before on BadWeB, when the 12's were launched. MCN delivers more bike scoops than any other bike rag by far. That's a proven statistical fact whether you bury your head in the sand or not. I've read the weekly rag for more than 25 years, scoops and all, but I've never seen your name mentioned. Why is that?
I've also read Bike magazine for about the same amount of years give or take a few copies here and there. How can a publication like Bike ever have a scoop? They write September's edition in June, print and sell it in August fer chrisakes! Bike's September scoop, if there were such a thing, would be published in the December edition, sold in November. MCN on the other hand, is the worlds largest selling weekly motorcycle rag. Consequently they carry a lot of clout with ALL manufacturers. Think about it and you might get to understand how it works!
Rocket |
Boulderbiker
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 09:12 am: |
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<topic> and I'm sure that MCN also has steering dampers for sale someplace towards the back of the magazine... |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:19 am: |
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Gee predicting a larger displacement version of the same bike...that's a tough one to call. Especially when the engines' already exist in Sportster form and when most of the Buell's competition is more powerful.
I seem to recall that MCN were just as sure that the 999 would get significantly redone, and the MV-F5 would look radically different. yeah they sure nailed those as well. I hear they also predicted the big Hornet...ooo that was a tough one as well.
>>MCN on the other hand, is the worlds largest selling weekly motorcycle rag. Consequently they carry a lot of clout with ALL manufacturers. Think about it and you might get to understand how it works!
McDonalds is one of the biggest selling Hamburger joints. Shall we debate their quality?
IF MCN carriers any clout all that means is that Honda fabricated up a secret and threw them a bone. Think about that.
I'm not questioning that there will be a V5, but c'mon its not going in a sport-tourer. Its going in a sportbike. I arguing against it being the replacement to the current VFR. Its going to be an additional model.
(Message edited by TBS_Stunta on August 20, 2004) |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 08:15 pm: |
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Ok, you're right. MCN just printed a front cover and a double spread this week, of a load of shite! Yeah, I believe you Stunted. Clearly you're the guy in the know.
Rocket |
Glitch
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 08:21 pm: |
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Ya know.
I think Rocket and Stunta would get along great.
I know Stunta, and I've been reading Rocket's posts the whole time I've been on the BadWeB, no, I don't think ya'll would get on well, I'd put money on it. |
Tbs_stunta
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:26 pm: |
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>>Ok, you're right. MCN just printed a front cover and a double spread this week, of a load of shite! Yeah, I believe you Stunted. Clearly you're the guy in the know.
I'm not the guy in the know, but apparently it was a very slow news week. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 04:46 am: |
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but apparently it was a very slow news week
That's because you're on the wrong side of the Pond dude. Anyway, I called MCN this morning and they have a desk waiting for you, right next door to Mr Honda's office
Rocket |
Xbolt12
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:21 am: |
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Al,
If I get my throttle cable in time I'll see you at the BBQ and show you the Innovation steering damper setup. It is a royal pain in the ___ss to mount on an XBR with street wiring, but they have the right idea. It mounts to the fairing bracket tabs on the steering head and is a transverse damper that runs in front of the bottom triple clamp.
xbolt12 |
Xbolt12
| | Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 05:10 pm: |
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Well the installation was a real bitch and required some modifications for clearance, but I love the Innovation damper! The bike is a lot harder to upset and much more stable without any real negatives!
BTW, I see that LSL now has a damper that mounts to the front main engine mount bolt (the one right behind the steering head-rubber mount) that may be a good setup for the S models for those wanting to avoid a side mount damper.
xbolt12 |
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