| Author | Message | ||
     Spacecapsule1 |
Started about a week ago. sounded like pinging that would never go away, then progressed louder and louder. The noise stays in time with rpms. Only symptom other than the noise is that at idle the oil pressure light came on for the first time yesterday but goes off if rpms are above 1500. So I parked it. Since the oil light is on, think it's the pump making all that racket? | ||
| Akbuell |
Possible. Given the oil needs of various bits, I would tend to go w/a lifter issue, caused by low oil pressure. Idling for a few minutes while you listen around the engine with a stethescope (In my case, a long screwdriver with the handle to my ear) won't hurt, and will allow you to pinpoint the source area. I'm sure you have checked the oil level. You might want to take the oil filter apart and look in there ..... Please let us know what you find, Dave | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
...oh yeah another thing i noticed after checking the oil is that it seemed excessively high in the swingarm, but prior to the oil light it wasn't high. I'll try the screwdriver method to see if I can isolate it a bit more. Tough to distinguish between the top end or oil pump level. It's loud too... I can hear it at speed, through my helmet, ear plugs and loud exhaust. (Message edited by spacecapsule1 on October 19, 2012) | ||
| Sifo |
You're bike is a 2008 with the new oil system? I'm surprised to hear this, but anything can and will fail. I would tend to think a lifter would be causing the noise, and low oil pressure would account for that. The weird thing in my mind, I thought oil pump failures tended to be pretty catastrophic, not a gradual loss of efficiency. Low idle speed can cause low oil pressure too. Is your idle speed set to spec? | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
yes sir idle is per the ebr ecm. All i've changed in the ecm is turn off closed loop idle which makes it idle a bit richer than closed loop. RPMs are around 1100. | ||
| Greg_e |
Checking the oil pressure isn't the hardest job so you may want to start with that. Lifters get clogged and stop working. Bad part is that you need to pull the heads to get them out. The bigger issue is if a lifter is clogged or has an air bubble that won't clear, you aren't getting proper oil to the rockers/valves on that cylinder. The only other clack noise I can think of is piston related and even worse than a bad lifter. (Message edited by Greg_E on October 20, 2012) | ||
| Akbuell |
As a fellow '08TT owner, I have a great interest in your situation. Some thoughts: Since the oil pump is usually the most well lubricated part of the engine,I'm still going with the lifter as the noise, but about its clicking .... The service manual has a procedure for checking the oil pressure. A 20 min ride at 50MPH to get the oil to operating temp, then look for 20-28PSI at 3k RPM. 10-16PSI at idle (1050-1150RPM). I would check this after listening with the screwdriver. The switch for the oil pressure light could be going out of calibration. The oil pressure relief valve could need attention. If the oil pressure is OK, then the clicking needs to be addressed. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Sifo |
Given that the idle is set correctly, I have to agree that the next step is probably to get an accurate check on oil pressure, just because of the oil light coming on. Tearing into the engine to check or replace the lifters is likely to be chasing a symptom of low oil pressure. It wouldn't hurt to try listening with a screw driver either, but a low lifer will clack all the way down to the cams. Try listening with it right on the oil pump, but I doubt the pump is clacking. It's going to take diagnosis by elimination. | ||
| Greg_e |
Here's a wild thought... When did you change the oil last, and did you switch brands or thickness? Might be worth a quick oil change to a good 20w50 oil and see what happens. I believe the oil pressure is checked at the sensor port since it is a standard style thread and you should be able to get a gauge on loan from Autozone, bet they have the sensor too if we can figure out what car it comes from. Guess on the car would be one of the Ford Mustangs. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
i changed the oil 5 months ago and used the same oil and filter i've always used. mobil 1 synthetic 20w50 and m103 oil filter. no oil pressure gauge for loan at autozone. dang. screwdriver turned up nothin'. can't really tell where the noise is coming, there's just too much racket... | ||
| Ulynut |
Just food for thought..... A guy I know had a pickup with a clogged lifter. Thing was making a LOT of noise. He drained the oil, 5 quarts, refilled with 5 quarts of automatic transmission fluid, started the engine and let it idle for about 2 minutes. He then drained the atf, refilled with fresh motor oil and the thing ran smooth and quiet. If your oil pressure is good and you don't find any shavings in your oil, it may be worth a shot. Like I said, just a thought. | ||
| Greg_e |
I would dump in a bunch of seafoam before using ATF fluid, same idea though. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
i can't even buy an oil pressure gauge at the local auto stores. good grief. so what to do.... check oil pressure? atf? seafoam? drive it off a bridge? well... i do have some atf so maybe i should try that? apparently checking the oil pressure IS a big deal. i see there's a harbor freight nearby so I'll hit them up in the morning. maybe i can find an el-cheapo oil pressure test kit that will work.... (Message edited by spacecapsule1 on October 20, 2012) | ||
| Greg_e |
Looking at the pressures, you should be able to find a combo pressure/vacuum gauge that will do the job, the adapter to screw into the pressure switch may be more difficult. Do you have a NAPA store nearby? Might need their help to get an adapter, but take a look at this, might have the correct adapter to fit the pressure sensor outlet: http://www.harborfreight.com/engine-oil-pressure-t est-kit-98949.html | ||
| Mcelhaney14 |
You should be able to get a cheap sunpro oil pressure from the "performance" section of autozone. It has a little bag inside with all the fittings and there should be one to fit the sender hole. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
weird. psi at idle was 10 (book says 10-16) for a minute then started dropping to 5 psi. at 3k its 20psi (book says 20-28). My ears are ringing now its soooo loud. Sounds like its coming from the middle of the engine. the oil light would come on if idle dropped below 1000 while riding. When I disconnected the oil pressure sensor to attach the gauge for testing, the oil light never came on.... (Message edited by spacecapsule1 on October 21, 2012) | ||
| Greg_e |
It's looking like you may have a pump issue, I would dump a bunch of seafoam in the swingarm and run it for a while. If the knock is coming from the middle of the engine then you may be looking at something serious like a rod bearing and it might have happened from a lack of oil somewhere else. If it was me, I would just put it down for the winter and start tearing into it, too many questions about where it could be and what it is to leave it alone. When I had my mystery tapping sound I couldn't locate it either, somewhere through the top end rebuild I replaced the bad parts. | ||
| Sifo |
Is there any possibility that you could have gotten enough fuel in to the oil to cause problems? That could account for a high dipstick reading and low oil pressure. Low oil pressure could account for a collapsed lifter causing the noise. Just trying to link symptoms together. I think the oil would be noticeably contaminated before it would cause pressure issues. If you aren't hearing the noise clearly with a screwdriver up at the rocker boxes, then I don't think it's valve train. When you say it's coming from the middle of the engine, does that mean ONLY from the middle, or from the middle TOO. Valve train noise can run from the rocker boxes all the way down to the cam chest. Bottom end noises will be more isolated, well... to the bottom end. I hate to say this, but I have my doubts about it being valve train noise at this point. I would think 10-20 psi should get the lifters pumped up. I would just want to rule out all the cheaper possibilities as best as possible before deciding to crack the cases open. I guess if the noise isn't up at the rocker boxes, I might consider checking out the oil pump. I don't know how difficult that is on the '08 models. I'm sure it's easier than splitting the cases though. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
i don't how i could've fuel into the oil. I don't smell fuel in the oil either. I tried a mechanics stethescope and really couldn't isolate the noise either. I thought it was the lifters, then maybe the rockers, then I just couldn't tell. I could hear the noise everywhere I checked. I pulled the pressure relief valve from the oil pump and checked it... only the spring came out with the plug... the book shows another piece, but it wouldn't come out. There was a very small amount of shavings on the plug, similar to the oil drain plug when you change the oil. well fellas, not much else to do really but tear it apart. I thought to try the atf or seafoam...but don't think it will help this racket... | ||
| Akbuell |
Since the spring came out, try a clean container under the relief valve hole and start the bike. Oil pressure should push the plunger, and anything else in there, out and you can shut the engine off right away. See what you get. May be time to cut the oil filter apart ... | ||
| Greg_e |
If it's as loud as you say, time to pull it apart. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
i did run it, but only a bit of oil squirted out... no plunger. | ||
| Argentcorvid |
before you rip the motor apart, have you checked for exhaust leaks due to broken studs? | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
no exhaust leaks unfortunately. | ||
| Akbuell |
Strange, I would have thought that the plunger would 'float' in the chamber, and even a small amount of oil pressure would have pushed it out. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
my thought as well, but nothing happened. I may have not let it run long enough. as soon as oil started to spray I shut it off... wasn't running but a few seconds maybe. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Jason, here's what an XB with a bad crankshaft rod bearing sounds like: My engine never lost oil pressure though so I'm thinking it's bound to be something else, like a plugged filter, failed relief valve, or a failed pump. Those things would cause low oil pressure would let one or more lifters collapse which could cause a lot of noise without really hurting anything. I'd drain the oil through a piece of white cloth and remove the filter and cut it apart. My swingarm was full of VERY fine flakes; about like the metal particles in metallic paint. If you don't find a lot of carnage there, disassemble the pump and see if anything is obviously wrong and work from there. Good luck! | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
$^^&&%#@! that's exactly what it sounds like. | ||
| Mtnmason |
08 w/ 52k - im surprised the crank hasnt been suggested before. There was a thread on here with a table that documented XBs with crank failures but I believe most of them were 06-07 model yrs with late 06 build dates. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The documented failed crank bikes were almost all 2007 model Ulys; there were only 1 or 2 2006 model bikes. The 2008-up XB engine with it's 0.25 inch larger crank pin (1.5 inches vs. 1.25 inches) and bearing and greatly improved oiling system was thought to be pretty much immune to this issue. My bike in the video above never lost oil pressure and in fact was running well when it sounded like that. When I tore the engine down I found both cylinders badly scored, apparently due to shrapnel that was flung from the rod bearings chewing them up. |
