| Author | Message | ||
     Tankhead |
This for one of the Badwebbers who was shut out. He had obvious frustrations about having a low mileage bike that had fuel pump failures, gasket replacement, and recently some E#B#R Race ecm issues that was causing some other frustrations with loss of power. He tried TPS reset and said he followed instructions post reset. The advice given was to call E#B#R and have the issue resolved there first (which is sound advice) and then post up and let others know what happened. I am opening this thread because I am also having issues with my fuel pump on my 09 and have blown a couple fuses. I was going to order the E#B#R ECM until I saw that they had increased the price $60.00. So right now it is not in my budget. I know (some)others (Andy Nelson 06 and Erics1 09) have said that they did not notice a big difference and some have waxed poetic about the difference (ratbuell, motorbike, bike_pilot, etc). So here are some questions I have. Would changing the ecm cause a decrease in risk in blowing fuel pump fuses and or pump failures themselves? How would one know if they did not receive a good map from the guys at e#b#r? Is it possible that those that have not seen great improvements need a remap? How huge is the difference, just smoother power throughout the rpm range? My 09 surges between 2500-4000 rpm and it is irritating but tolerable but I sure would want some noticeable differences in performance for $310.00? tanks in advance for your time. | ||
| Froggy |
The 08+ bikes have more of a stranglehold on the stock ECM map due to EPA regulations, so a Race ECM for stock pipes will do more for the bike than previous years. It will eliminate the low to mid RPM issues you are experiencing. Regarding the fuel pump, its a fairly common issue on 09s, and the only known fix is to replace the pump. | ||
| Blake |
My '09 has never surged. The race ECM improved the power and the muffler valve transition performance. Everything engine wise is stock including muffler and breather. No more drastic momentary dip in power accelerating through 3,300 rpm or there abouts. If you read all the reports absent a few having trouble, the near unanimous consensus is that the Erik Buell Racing ECM is a great deal. Tell your friend he's welcome back if he can promise to behave agreeably. | ||
| Blake |
There was a guy going all indignant yesterday about the bad result he experienced with a new Erik Buell Racing ECM. Looking at his profile, he had one of those bargain-hunter mufflers, one not specifically mapped for by Erik Buell Racing. At least not the last time I checked. Gotta get the correct map for your bike's configuration, otherwise results may not be optimum. | ||
| Ronin1 |
Tank, Mine blew the fuel pump fuse once in one day, then three times the next ride, and not a single time the 30 miles to the dealer. (it must of known I had five spares?) They replaced the complete pump assembly under warranty. They also did all the top end gaskets as it was weeping from quite a few different areas on both cylinders. Erik Buell Racing recognizes and lists the proper map for my “bargain-hunter” muffler and that’s what I ordered. The results at this time are anything but optimal. The good news is even though not all of them work perfect from the get-go, Erik Buell Racing will make it right no matter what it takes. Mine is going back tomorrow for a re-flash. As for the “retarded” fan comment, my fan hardly ever ran. Once the bike was broken in it actually ran pretty cool. I fail to see how the fan running at all times above 8 or 9 mph is optimum. There really should be no need for the fan on a 70 degree day at a 65 mph cruise, but maybe Erik Buell Racing is on to something? My 09 surged quite a bit and believe it or not the catch-can installation and breather reroute eliminated all of it. Some say that’s impossible but it worked on mine and others have said it has on theirs also. Jim (Message edited by Ronin1 on October 05, 2011) | ||
| Thepod |
If someone finds a fix for the surging on a 08 I'd sure like to know. I'm one of those that got no benefit out of a E-B-R ECM. I eventually sold it and went back to a stock ECM. Currently I'm trying to use tunerpro to refine the map. No true success yet, but I'm learning a lot. | ||
| Bike_pilot |
The fan thing bugs me too, it can be 40 degrees and pouring rain and it runs constantly when moving. I don't see how that makes any sense. When I get a moment I'll email e b r to see if there's a good reason for this and, if not, if they can make it so it only comes on when it is needed to control the cyl head temp. | ||
| Roysbuell |
I own a 09 Lightning XBscg it has never blown a fuel pump fuse, doesn't weep, nor surge or burns a single drop of oil. I have just over 6,000 miles on the clock and I bought her new at the dealer with 6 miles. Am I the only lucky one? My warranty just expired and not sure I will be buying it. $1,700 is a lot for maybe nothing happens to the bike. | ||
| Erics1 |
My '09 is stock and I bought the Erik Buell Racing ECM tuned for the stock pipe. The continued surging/hiccuping is not severe, just irritating, and that was what I most wanted to fix with the ECU. Interesting comment made by Ronin1 regarding the breather reroute---I haven't done that yet, guess it's time to give it a try. Fingers crossed on that one. If that doesn't work maybe I'll see if I can send the ECU back for reflashing... | ||
| Motorbike |
My 08 XT used to surge a little at steady throttle, when it was new, even after I installed the Erik Buell Racing ECM. I did the breather re-route and it completely cured the surging. But, I could smell hot oil fumes with the breather re-route and did not like that. My riding jacket would smell like I had been riding an old snowmobile when I returned home. I put the breathers back to 100% stock. The fumes are gone but the surging is back. Most of the time it is barely noticeable so I think I will leave it as is. Thanks. PS The surging seems slightly more pronounced when the tank is running low, maybe a gallon or so left. Not sure why. | ||
| Tankhead |
Not my friend, don't know him at all. I just thought he was treated very poorly. I understand his frustrations and maybe he should have calmed down before he posted, but calling someone a troll and dishonest is your MO. He wasn't being dishonest about other people not wanting to post here. Hell, that was mentioned on St-n a week or two ago and you for "douchebaggery". I think I recall ADV also having some fun times at your expense. Having some hidden anger about Hawk mufflers is also something that is suspect about your behavior. Erik Buell advertises ECM for Hawk mufflers. Deal with it. Ban yourself for one week for your behavior.  Hahahaha | ||
| Tankhead |
Thanks frog, but like you see above, it appears that the E*B*R ECM does not clear up the issues for some. So again, if it does not clear up the surging issues, does that mean that E,B,R could re-map it or the buyer is out of luck. When should you conclude that maybe it is not mapped correctly??? For the record I had a 06 City-x with K&N, and a Drummer and the damn thing ran and ran and ran. never a problem. I am just trying to gather as much information as possible before I commit to buying the ECM. tanks again everyone for your time. | ||
| Bike_pilot |
Just for the record, I don't think I've waxed poetic about the E B R ECM, just stated that the bike runes well with it installed. I've no real basis for comparison, but it doesn't surge, sputter, or do anything untoward (maybe a little surging when cold, but I don't fault it for that). | ||
| Froggy |
Every bike is different, and I've noticed on here that 10 different people will call the same thing by 10 different names, and then give 10 different issues the same name. So yes, it does fix surging due to the motor running lean to comply with EPA emissions. If you still have surging, you probably have something else wrong, or are mistakenly calling your issue surging. | ||
| Portero72 |
Tankhead- Well said, first of all. I cannot answer all of your questions, but I will relay my experiences in an effort to answer a few. I, also, have blown a fuel pump fuse once, without obvious reason. I SUSPECT it was due to being low on fuel, a VERY hot day(109), and slow running. Has not happened since. I do not think an ECM will address this. You may have other issues. The 'race' ECM will not give you a huge boost in power, but it will improve power delivery, and smooth out the surge in the rpm's you describe. It did for me, and mine ran well, prior to the race ECM, except for that surging. It is now easy to tool along at lower revs. If you have other driveability issues, you may need to address those first. When I purchased my ECM, it cost 250$. I considered it money well spent, if only for the improved running it provided. Hope this helps. | ||
| Tankhead |
Thanks guys, Frog, My bike when at a constant throttle position from anywhere in the 2500-4000 rpm range feels like at very regular times that someone is behind me pushing me forward somewhat forcefully so much that my bike feels like it has a flat and has the tire pushed off the rim at some part of the wheel. Push, steady, push, steady, push,etc. Again this is at a constant throttle position with my grip. (Message edited by tankhead on October 05, 2011) | ||
| Reepicheep |
FWIW, I have dyno plots of my XB9SX with both stock and race ECM (and stock exhaust), and the only difference I saw was the extra few HP from the race ECM's higher redline. That's an XB9 though, which seems a much easier motor to manage. | ||
| Motorbike |
My surging is only noticeable at steady throttle between 2500 and 3500 RPM but is not very bad. I usually have to think about it and see if I am imagining it or not. Very faint. It just feels like it is running just ever so slightly lean. If I give it just a little throttle, it responds perfectly. If ridden hard through curves and hills, it runs flawlessly and is the most fun bike I have ever owned. I wish I could get a job riding a bike like this for a living! Overall, the Erik Buell Racing ECM was an improvement over stock. It does not hiccup at all anymore while accelerating and that alone was worth $250. | ||
| Blake |
Christopher, Liars suck. You've proven immune from honest discussion before. It's a serious problem. If you wish to remain a participant here, then you'll need to get honest. You should also avoid getting off track and stick to the motorcycle discussion. Your queer obsession with critiquing me is entirely unhelpful. >>> He wasn't being dishonest about other people not wanting to post here. What was stated:
The truth is that the vast almost innumerable quantity of posts here where folks are looking to resolve a problem are answered thoughtfully. On the other hand, a tiny minority who come here behaving idiotically or like a troll will absolutely be called out for it. Folks on other forums badmouthing me? LOL! It's a decades old tradition among the miserable types of folks that we are very happy to avoid here. What integrity of character one must lack to spend time badmouthing others on the internet. Sounds like you are eager to join them Chris. By all means. Have fun! Concerning the bargain-hunter mufflers, there is no anger. We just don't care for their demonstrated lack of integrity and poor business ethics concerning this Buell forum. Christopher, I need to make this crystal clear, if you don't like the way the place is managed, you should avoid it. This kind of pathetic, miserable, self-centered, indignant garbage is harmful to the discussion forum. I sure don't appreciate it. So either cease or or depart. Your choice. Understand? Please also fight the temptation to act as some kind of self-appointed spokesman here. It's not appreciated, especially when laced with dishonesty. We have a wonderful and diverse collection of BadWeB custodians who are among the finest people I have come to know. You aren't one of them. So to summarize: 1. Get honest. 2. Stick to the topic. 3. Don't like our management? Then leave. (Message edited by blake on October 05, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> My 09 surged quite a bit and believe it or not the catch-can installation and breather reroute eliminated all of it. Some say that’s impossible but it worked on mine and others have said it has on theirs also. That's great information Jim. Makes sense too, at least for bikes that may be experiencing elevated amounts of blow-by. I haven't ridden much in cooler weather yet with the new ECM, so can't say if what you noticed wight the fan is normal or not. Sure doesn't sound like it ought to be. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Break out the tinfoil hats...I have a crazy theory....I keep my bike at my shop and usually follow a particular route when I go for a ride...Routine is the same. Crank engine and let it warm up while I gear up. I take off and when I am about 1/4 mile down the road, the engine shuts off and on twice....for maybe 1/10th of a second...yesterday, due to road construction, I went the other way...no miss at all...why, I thought...my normal rout takes me under a pair of high voltage transmission lines from the power plant. Could strong EMF from the power lines play into this?.. sounds crazy, right??? I ran Schnitz electronic controllers on my dragbikes....and if the wiring ran anywhere near the coils in line of sight, the engine would miss at high rpm...I fixed it by running the control wiring inside a frame tube to shield it...if I'm not wrong. the wiring runs right under the coil on my XB...mine doesn't SURGE. it sputters at any throttle position below about 4,000 rpm...It did it with the stock ECM and exhaust...it does it with the race exhaust and ecm...the bike is meticulously maintained and the engine has less than 4% leakdown...oh...it also makes no difference with new plug wires and plugs...standard or irridium. It has been suggested that the roughness is due to the camshaft package...stock cams of course...I can smooth the bucking out by doing what everybody says NOT to do...shift up and load the motor..at 2K in high gear it chugs along smoothly...down shift to where it floats at around 3 k with no load...it stutters badly. Just some observations.... | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
oh i get it now......... blake isn't just referring to the current thread (even though he keeps ordering people to stay on topic), he's writing based off the personnel files he's been generating for people. i read the thread you two are talking about. the poster complained about poor quality product, as most people would do and the almighty blake swooped in to save the day by calling him a troll and a lair. now he's calling other people liars too. wow. the point is, you were wrong blake for making those comments. no matter how you try to justify yourself. ...back to topic please.... | ||
| Tankhead |
Motorbike said this: My surging is only noticeable at steady throttle between 2500 and 3500 RPM but is not very bad. I usually have to think about it and see if I am imagining it or not. Very faint. It just feels like it is running just ever so slightly lean. If I give it just a little throttle, it responds perfectly. I would say that mine responds exactly the same way when I use the throttle and kick it above the rpm range, but mine is more severe in the lower RPM range. My wife notices it also. We camped at Assateaque this past weekend and riding at about 20-30 mph around the camp site, she said it felt like a bucking bronco but only back and forth not up and down. So, Froggy or anyone else, is this surging or am I using the wrong term. Again tanks for your time. (Message edited by tankhead on October 06, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> you were wrong blake for making those comments It appears that my declarations were wrong. Jim is now demonstrating that he is neither an idiot nor a troll. My harsh declarations in addressing the poor behavior were harsh, but wrt the commentary they addressed, they were dead on accurate. We absolutely will call out such nonsense. Failing to do so encourages more of the same. We'd rather that those commonly inclined towards such negative inflammatory expression avoid our little Buell forum here. Admittedly I should probably have used the "behaving like a" qualifier. Jim appears to have regained a thoughtful demeanor. How cool is that!? In that regard, I couldn't be happier that I was wrong.  I wish I could be proved wrong on such accounts more often. On the dishonesty issue, the easy to read facts stand on their own and are irrefutable. On that point then, you are absolutely wrong. | ||
| Blake |
Fast, Interesting observation, can you get it to repeat? The strength of the EM field from a power line so far away from the line itself is likely orders of magnitudes less than that generated at the coil. But might the 60 Hz AC be problematic? Anyone here work at a power plant? Hello, Court? | ||
| Blake |
Chris, At 20 to 30 mph, driveline lash can cause the behavior you describe. Every large motorcycle I've ever ridden does it. The heavier and/or lower powered bikes can mask the issue, but it's still there. Even hot rod cars with standard transmissions do it. Work the clutch, accelerate, then coast. | ||
| Blake |
Loose primary chain might exacerbate the phenomenon. | ||
| Ronin1 |
>>>>>At 20 to 30 mph, driveline lash can cause the behavior you describe. Every large motorcycle I've ever ridden does it. The heavier and/or lower powered bikes can mask the issue, but it's still there. Even hot rod cars with standard transmissions do it. Work the clutch, accelerate, then coast.<<< I also found that the Free Spirits belt tensioner helped with the low speed surging/jerky-ness. Maybe low speed vibration might be a better term? After speaking with Fast1075 on his and the benefits it provided, I bought and installed one also. It also seemed to help with the cruise speed vibrations. It's a work in progress, none of them are perfect. My Triumph Sprint roasted me like a bird-on-a-spit. It was fun to ride though! Jim (Message edited by Ronin1 on October 06, 2011) | ||
| Tankhead |
Blake said: At 20 to 30 mph, driveline lash can cause the behavior you describe. Every large motorcycle I've ever ridden does it. The heavier and/or lower powered bikes can mask the issue, but it's still there. AH HA!!! That would be the best description of what I was trying to explain. Though it would not explain why I never felt that on the City-x for close to 30,00 miles. Could that be because of the shorter swingarm? Shorter belt? I will also check the primary chain. Tanks Blake, that makes a lot of sense. Does anyone else's supposed surging feel like what Blake or I explained? Maybe surging is not the right term after all. Would putting the 9 gearing in the Uly help? (Message edited by tankhead on October 06, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Surging to me is a more gradual rhythmic fluctuation usually at highway speeds and light throttle. Once speed exceeds 70 mph, it should be a non-issue. Fiddling with TPS reset might resolve that kind of surging. By fiddling I mean altering the effort used when holding the throttle closed. Just a crazy idea. |
