| Author | Message | ||
     Manybikes |
I know this horse has probably been flogged many times but.. hey...I'm a newbie. Looking at an 09 Uly. Are the rear wheel bearings something that "Has" to be replaced or is it one of those items where only some were bad? | ||
| Froggy |
Has. | ||
| Manybikes |
If you keep the 09 rear wheel what is the best replacement bearing? Do the replacements then have a long life? Is it a easy DIY? | ||
| Froggy |
That is debatable, I personally have tried many brands including both the black seal and orange seal bearings from HD, and aftermarkets like SFK, and every single one has failed me. I'm tempted to try something much more expensive like ceramic hybrids, but for the cost I am a good way to buying a 2010 wheel.
I seem to get 15,000 miles like clockwork on my bearings. I did break this rule, my 08 1125R is up to 18,000 and still on the orange bearings, I'm coming up on a tire soon so I'll see how notchy they are then.
If you got a hydraulic press, then yes, otherwise you are going to need to jerryrig some tools to remove and replace the bearings. Personally, I would bring the wheel to a dealer and have them just change the bearings, it doesn't take long so it won't cost you an arm and a leg. | ||
| Manybikes |
I have read numerous posts regarding this issue. It seems odd...is it design flaw in the wheel? what would cause this bike to chew up bearings? I have read where the 09's were better. | ||
| Froggy |
Yes the issue is with the wheel, quite frankly the bearings aren't built for the job. Failures are due to numerous reasons, and the 2010 wheel fixes it by using larger bearings with a higher load capacity, having two of them on the drive side for better load distribution, and an extra set of seals to help prevent water intrusion. 2010 was the only year to come with this wheel stock. 09's had different bearings than earlier years, but they still failed me at 15,000 miles. | ||
| Manybikes |
Thanks Froggy Sooo....I have not checked into the availability of 2010 wheels but it looks like they were priced around $400.00 2010 Uly's are not common items for sale. | ||
| Froggy |
Given that there was only like a hundred or so built, you probably aren't going to find one at your favorite pick-n-pull! (Although I know of two that were wrecked already) If you do go the new wheel route, American Sport Bike sells it, and for a couple bucks more he will install the bearings and do it right. (For some reason the 2010 wheels don't come with them pre-installed) | ||
| Sifo |
My XB12Ss had the rear bearing last over 42K miles. When it went it was clearly infiltrated with water. I had been stuck on the road in very bad rains just 2 weeks earlier. I've now started a preventative maintenance program of pulling the seal with a dental pick and repacking them with fresh grease. This was suggested by someone else on BadWeb. Hopefully it will help. | ||
| Mmcn49 |
I spoke with an SKF bearing rep before replacing both front and rear bearings on one of the TT’s at about 14,000 miles. After giving her the bearing model numbers she explained that the bearings on our Buell’s are not sealed but have loose contact shields. Loose contact shield bearings run quite a bit cooler than sealed bearings but do allow some dirt and water in. This is what causes them to fail. I spoke with Al at American Sport Bike about this. He said that when he spoke with the Buell engineers about wheel bearings, the ones on our bikes are the best all around compromise. Here’s what I’ve learned: The bearings on our bikes can carry the load but are heavily worked. Perhaps they are overloaded but I don’t know that for certain. Loose contact shield bearings will fail in a motorcycle wheel application over time; they seem to last on average between 10,000 to 20,000 miles. If you check the bearings periodically you will probably not have a catastrophic failure with loose contact shield bearings. They can be worn badly but still function. Sealed bearing will run hotter when worked heavily or overloaded. Severely overheated bearings can seize or fail catastrophically. The question is were the Buell engineers being overly cautious or is there a real risk of seizing in the summer heat with sealed bearings. I chose to replace mine with loose contact shields. | ||
| Bman12r |
Good info....Thanks! I am following this closely because I see a problem in the fact that the wheel only allows the owner to change out the bearings a few times (carefully) before the wheel is trashed and has to be replaced. That is too expensive and I think unnecessary. I wonder what the options are for a better quality bearing set that will last longer. | ||
| Mmcn49 |
My 72 R75/5 Beemer has 232K miles. It still has the original front wheel and bearings, (I’m the first and only owner). It has tapered roller bearings. The bearings are covered by a seal but they are not sealed like ball bearings. Ball bearings have an inner race, outer race, bearing cage and balls. If sealed the seal is part of the bearing assembly. Roller bearings have a cup, (outer race) and cone. The cone assembly has the rollers, inner race and cage. At every tire change I pull the seals and remove the cone assembly, (the cup is pressed into the hub). I clean everything with solvent, (thinner or mineral spirits) grease the rollers with a needle grease gun and reassemble. The cups on these bearings have noticeable wear. Many of the rollers are starting to pit. When assembled though you cannot feel any catches when rotating the bearings. It spins nice and smooth. No need to change until they’re completely shot which may be another 50K or more. IMO finding either a tapered roller bearing or roller bearing with the same dimensions as the Buell’s ball bearings would probably resolve our bearing issue. >>>“I see a problem in the fact that the wheel only allows the owner to change out the bearings a few times (carefully) before the wheel is trashed and has to be replaced”.<<< Probably True: I thought long and hard before changing the Buell’s bearings. First I made up tools that allowed me to drive them out, (own a lathe and other machine tools). Here’s what I did to change them. Rigged up a lamp w/100 watt bulb and put the wheel hub over it. Let it cook until it was almost hot. Made a dam with duct seal around the bearing, also plugged the inner race’s hole. Filled the void with 91% isopropyl alcohol and dry ice. Let it set until the solution became slushy, about 4 minutes. Drove the bearing out, it took two light taps almost popping out. When I put the new bearings in I coated the loose contact shields with Cosmoline, which sealed them. I let them soak in the alcohol dry ice solution for about 5 minutes. I had no trouble getting them back in, but they went in quite a bit harder than popping the old ones out. Shrinking the bearings like this may increase the number of times they can be replaced. | ||
| Nobuell |
I agree, freezing pressed in bearings is the way to go. Back in my racing days. We would heat motor cases in the oven and freeze the bearings. The bearings would drop into place without the use of force. My BMW R100RS had over 150K miles with the stock bearings. I cleaned and lubed them periodically and replaced the outer seal occasionally. Tapered roller bearings will take much higher side loads than a raced ball bearing. Before front wheel drive, most cars had front tapered bearings that rarely failed. Ball bearing assemblies are much cheaper to utilize in motor cycle wheels since bearing preload is not an issue. With roller bearings, an adjustable outer hub/race is required to properly load the bearings. This requires more parts and machining. The BMW wheel had adjustable internal shims to achieve the proper load when the outer race was tightened. It was a pain to initially set up, but worked very well afterwards. I would love to have adjustable tapered rollers in my Buell wheel but unfortunately, the design does not permit it. | ||
| Mmcn49 |
I was thinking more along the lines of cylindrical roller bearings, not the thrust bearings on our Beemers. I know that cylindrical rollers cannot take any side or axial loads. I just don’t know enough about bearings to feel comfortable swapping to a different type on a motorcycle wheel. The only way to extend the life of the ball wheel bearings we have now is to use a real sealed bearing and run the risk of overheating and seizure, or rigging up some sort of external seal on the wheel hub. | ||
| Sifo |
The only way to extend the life of the ball wheel bearings we have now is to use a real sealed bearing and run the risk of overheating and seizure, or rigging up some sort of external seal on the wheel hub. Those aren't your only options. As I stated above, I've started repacking mine as part of my periodic service. It may not be a perfect solution, but a good quality water proof bearing grease should go a long way toward extending the life. When my last bearing failed what came out of the bearing was closer to rusty water than grease. It was sprayed all around the rear wheel. | ||
| Nobuell |
Michael, I have very little experience with cylindrical rollers. I am not sure of their use in the wheel application. I do believe that the same failure will occur due to the seal configuration. The 2010 wheel is the ultimate solution. The cost is not very high but the peace of mind is priceless. | ||
| Buellifer |
Speaking of bearings... The factory original bearings in my firebolts front wheel lasted 14,000 miles. That seams a little short to me. Or is that about right? (Message edited by buellifer on September 23, 2011) | ||
| Sifo |
My front lasted 22K miles. My rear went to 42K. I think failure depends largely on "stuff" getting in, not just miles.  | ||
| Andymnelson |
Duuurrrrr....I did not know! I better go replace my perfectly good wheel with perfectly good bearings, stat! /sarcasm lol Not has. Keep an eye on your bearings, and when they need to be replaced, DO IT RIGHT. | ||
| Froggy |
They are ticking time bombs waiting to leave you stranded. Obviously they aren't perfectly good if it happens, especially at the rate it does. | ||
| Sifo |
I checked mine every time my wheels come off for tire changes, still never gave me any warning. Maybe I need to switch to tires that wear out in under 20K miles.  Both let me go quite a ways after they started making bad noises that made me pull over and say WTF is going on. With the rear one I was over 100 miles from home. I stopped in a tiny little garage and asked if they had any lube with a squirt tube. They helped me out and flooded it with PB Blaster with the squirt tube forced past the seal. It ran nice and quiet until I was about 2 miles from home then started complaining again. Not exactly bearing grease, but it did the trick. I have gotten to where I take spares on my touring trips though. If you did have a failure on the road you /i{might} get home by pulling the seals and repacking with grease if you catch it before it totally disintegrates. | ||
| Greg_e |
http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-lube-tools-mor e/lbt-lightning-lube/go-kart Maybe carry a small tube of this stuff? Maybe a couple extra seals to go with it? | ||
| Merc16 |
This is a very interesting discussion. I didn'y know that you could repack the rear wheel bearings on XB's. | ||
| Sifo |
You can't do a great job of it like you can with an open axle bearing from a car for example. You can carefully get the dust seal off with a dental pick. Then you can clean out some of the old dirty grease with a clean rag. Then you can pack it with fresh grease. Then just press the seal back into place. It's far from a perfect procedure, but from what I've seen, (only 2 failures) the failed bearings have been pretty dry when they failed. Normally, repacking an open bearing you can keep pushing fresh grease through until dirty grease stops coming out. That's not really possible with the bearing in the wheel though. | ||
| Mmcn49 |
If you pull the seal or shield off of a new ball bearing assembly you will find only a small amount of light or medium grease inside, (I’ve done this on machinery bearings just to see what was there). Rotating the races by hand takes very little effort. The small amount of light grease does not impede rotation at all. Packing these bearings with fairly heavy bearing grease like you would do with automotive roller bearings is probably not a good thing. Too much grease may prevent the balls from rolling. If they are dragged within the race flat spots will occur. The main problem we have is trying to keep dirt and water out. I’ve coated my bearing shields with cosmoline. It’s a tenacious waxy substance that once coated onto something is difficult to remove. Unlike grease it is not blended with soap. Its melting point is around 120. You can find greases with much higher drop points, (temperature where the oil separates from the soap) but it will not stick like cosmoline. The stuff is a dust magnet though. I haven’t popped the seals so I can’t be certain if I’m keeping more dirt and water out than I’m attracting. When I do pop the seals I’m going to use WD-40 to thoroughly clean inside. WD is a lubricant and a mild solvent. After blowing the bearing dry, I’ll grease the bearing but haven’t decided what type of grease to use. Right now, I’m kind of leaning towards light, spray can lithium grease. I contacted the local HD dealer and asked about the 2010 wheels. He said there is no difference between my 07 Lightning wheels and bearings and the 2010 wheels. The only thing I have found that is different is the rear wheel on the Uly. It supposedly has three bearings, but the shields are the same. | ||
| Sifo |
You may have some good points there Mmcn49. I may make some modifications to how I do my maintenance. I thought about cleaning them with solvent, but didn't want to get to where I had solvent soaked grease in there that I can't get out because you can only get to one side of the bearing. I would feel better about using something like WD-40. BTW, if you start really trying to clean them, especially with solvents, brushes and compressed air, pay attention to the fact that you can easily contaminate your break rotors with grease. Clean them well before spreading the contamination to your pads. | ||
| Motorbike |
Keep an eye on your bearings, and when they need to be replaced, DO IT RIGHT. Hi Andy. I kept a very close eye on my bearings. I took a look at the seals EVERY TIME I got home from a ride. My seals and bearings looked great when I took off one day but 100 miles later, one failed and left me a long ways from home. What did I do wrong? Thanks. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Probably nothing. I contest that most of the failures are happening from 1 of 3 things: water intrusion/dry (no grease) bearings, too-tight belts (for a variety of reasons, ranging from the belt length to over loading to excessive off-roading), or improperly installed bearings. I would bet that more than the others, the last one is the biggest cause. Most mechanics don't even understand the thought process- you DO NOT seat both bearings. You seat 1, install spacer, then LIGHTLY seat the other up to the spacer. YOU likely did nothing wrong. Big picture tho, I am betting that something was done wrong at some point. As for me, I am confident in my belt tension, I basically never take the bike off road, and I know that by bearing were installed right because I did them myself (well...I did them with Brad!). I have no bearing worries.  | ||
| Mmcn49 |
>>>BTW, if you start really trying to clean them, especially with solvents, brushes and compressed air, pay attention to the fact that you can easily contaminate your break rotors with grease. Clean them well before spreading the contamination to your pads.<<< Good point Sifo. You can cover things pretty good with a rag while you’re blowing them out. >>>Hi Andy. I kept a very close eye on my bearings. I took a look at the seals EVERY TIME I got home from a ride. My seals and bearings looked great when I took off one day but 100 miles later, one failed and left me a long ways from home. What did I do wrong? Thanks.<<< It’s impossible to know for sure Motorbike but we can speculate a little. Damaged balls with flat spots are difficult to see in assembled bearing, especially ones as small as our wheel bearings. A visual inspection may reveal little. A better indicator is to feel for “Catches”. Put the bike on stands and rotate the wheel. If you feel any catches you have a severe bearing issue. Inertia from the wheel and tire will tend to mask minor bearing problems. The best indicator is to remove the wheel and rotate the inner race with your fingers. This will reveal even fairly minor issues. Minor issues can be grains of sand that can be flushed away with WD. If you can still feel catches after flushing, your bearing is starting a downhill spiral. A bearing that has catches off the bike, but does not when mounted will probably not fail for quite a few miles, possibly several thousand or more. | ||
| Motorbike |
When my drive side rear bearing failed on my 08 XT, it was the stock, original orange sealed bearing that came from the factory. The rear wheel had never been off the bike and it failed at 7300 miles. I now have the 2010 wheel setup and it works great, so far. When I asked "What did I do wrong?", I was referring to comments I see here all the time. Everyone says to inspect your bearings and if they are starting to fail, replace them. My point was, I checked mine all the time and there was no indication it was about to fail. I was a long way from home when it popped the seal out and the bearing ground itself up somewhere between Byron, Mn and St. Paul. I know it may have started the self-destruction process hundreds of miles before I took off for a ride that day but there was no visible evidence. After it failed, I was only able to ride it very slowly 1/4 mile to the nearest farm place so I could get off the road and wait for a ride. I don't know about the rest of you but I personally hate being stranded for several hours that I could have spent riding. You can check and inspect your bearings all you want but these stock orange seal bearings will leave you stranded if you ever get more than 20 miles from home. Thanks. |
