| Author | Message | ||
     Tucsonxb9s |
I wonder if they would have changed the name. No va is Spanish for no go. Then again the non-Harley fans would've got a kick out of that! | ||
| Whodom |
The article on the Nova said they were looking at V-2, V-4, and even V-6 configurations of this engine platform. Ford seriously looked into using the V-6 in a compact car! (Can't imagine that would have helped Harley's publicity any.) | ||
| Evaddave |
With a water-cooled 60-degree V-twin, it looks like the Nova might have been the beginning of the V-ROD engine. (except for displacement) | ||
| Blake |
Clarification... I didn't mean to imply that any major engine mods would hit the market this Summer, just that at some point I'd expect to see the existing config further optimized.  | ||
| Court |
I have some old NOVA sales literature laying around here that came from Jim Marcolina years ago...interesting. I like the idea of Buell, now armed with new skills in quality, going back and taking a look at the tubers. I'm wondering if they could co-exist in a range. I'd love to see the S3 produced with what Buell, as a company, knows now. I'd step back and take a look at marketing and dealer support at the same time and create a PROGRAM around the bike. I love this stuff... | ||
| José_quiñones |
Blake, Without new cases/gaskets, bigger bore versions straight from the factory are unlikely. As long as the XL and XB's are assembled on the same line at Capitol Drive they will remain identical in terms of Bore size (3.5"  . They can hand build some special "racing use only" FUSA/AMA spec 1350cc monsters, but if they thought that they could sell enough of those they would have done that already. If they do go with new cases, they should license S&S new 60 degree V Sportster cases and use those to make the engine smaller and more mass centralized. | ||
| Benm2 |
Quick Blake, someones stolen your ID! I don't think valve actuation is the current limitation. The top end can be made to support at least 7500 rpm with steel valves, a switch to titanium in a few places (as the evil Japanese have done) might get it up to 8000. It seems the crank is the limiting factor now (piston speed & bearing loads). Without an all-new motor being in the lineup, I'd hope that the new bike might be an overbored XB9R, with bored cases & new cylinders. Heck, its just a running change on the CNC line for the cases. I'd LOVE to see such a machine, maybe 1100cc, 7500rpm redline, with the ram-air dual-intake setup of the FX bike, with a single seat & no passenger pegs. Throw in that carbon fiber cooling duct & fairing lower too. XB11RR?? Maybe FX the crank too, longer stroke than the 9, but shorter than the existing 12. There's a 105RWHP bike in there, with the fetal pig muffler & all. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
is it just me or does anybody else read that article on the nova project and just lean back and think.....dang that woulda changed everything and maybe for the better . atleast for us sport enthusiast. and then we look at today, we have the v-rod in the hd line and we have buell. we always talk of a v-twin engine but a v-four inside our favorite bikes sure would rock my world. oh well we will never know. but it sure makes me think alot more than I should in the early morning and late night hours | ||
| Glitch |
Did Erik work on this design? Makes ya wonder don't it? | ||
| Mikej |
          Lather, rinse, repeat. | ||
| Bomber |
Who -- nossir I don't, but IO think I remembner seeing it in one of Alan Girdler's books on HD and/or sporties . . . . . imagine an early evo sportie engine with Overhead cams (belt housings where the pushrods live) and you've got the idea . . . . | ||
| Daves |
Only 8 more days and we will all know. Dave | ||
| Brucelee |
I have to say that I after riding my 750 VFR, I am a VERY BIG FAN of a V4 approach. I can only dream of a lightweight V4 in an EB chassis. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! | ||
| Blake |
Ben, I think the current top end is good for 7,500 rpm (XB9 rev limit). Good to see you posting. | ||
| Spike |
I remember reading somewhere that a big part of the reason for the "staged" rev limiter on the XB12s was because the sustained high RPM was hard on the rod bearings. If that's correct, then I don't think we'll see any more RPM from the current XB12 motor without at least a change in stroke. It seems to me that we've reached the safe RPM limit for the current motor's stroke. I remember reading somewhere else that in order to get 7500rpm out of the current valvetrain Buell had to use cams with a more "gentle" profile. If that's true, then it seems that we're reaching the safe RPM limit for this valvetrain setup. There may be a little more RPM available through the use of high tech materials, but I think we're at the point of dimishing returns. High tech materials would probably increase cost dramatically and only gain us a couple hundred RPM at best. I did some calculations and assuming my math was correct, running an XB9 stroke with a staged rev limiter like the XB12s at the same piston speeds would get us ~8300rpm at the hard limit and ~7500rpm at the soft limit. Also, I did some calculations on power output. If the XB9 was capable of producing the same rear-wheel torque at 8300rpm as it does at 7k rpm (~55ft-lbs), the bike would produce ~87rwhp. Granted, this is easier said than done as it would require changes to nearly every other part of the engine for the desired airflow. Then again, Buell designed new heads/cams/intake/exhaust with the XB9 motor anyway, so why not go for it? My guess is that there's something else limiting the RPM of the XB9 aside from the stroke/piston speed, and I expect the current valvetrain is the culprit. If we're going to see a big increase in power or RPM I don think it'll happen with the current engine. I think it'll take a significant change. The XB motor went through enough changes to tide us over for a while, possibly long enough for the development of a new engine. The new 60 degree motor would be neat, but that sounds like a radical change. Also, increasing the angle of the "V" will likely increase the physical size of the engine, and there's not much room for that in the XB's frame. I'm willing to bet you could develop a SOHC two-valve cylinder head arrangement that's not any larger than the current head/rockerbox arrangement. Combine that with a similar stroke to the XB9 and possibly larger bore, and I'll bet you end up with a reliable 8500-9000rpm engine. Play around with the valve angles and port designs and I'll bet 100rwhp isn't far away. I guess the real question is; Is 100rwhp and 8500rpm better than 90rwhp and 6800rpm if it means a loss in low end torque? | ||
| M1combat |
It depends on the road... Where I ride every day I'll take the 12 engine as it is. The ONLY thing I even consider wanting is the SO or DOHC for more RPM's. Look at the power curve on a 12. It's still climbing quite strong at 6800 RPM's and the torque hasn't really started falling off yet either. I think you could spin it to 6500 soft limit and 7300 hard limit w/o changing much if anything in the heads. As you mentioned though, that's still only 500 more RPM's. 60 degrees would be nice though as we could then have the same stroke as the 12 w/ bigger pistons (at the max). Another interesting direction would be a 60 degree 9 with as big of pistons as you could get but with whatever stroke is needed to get to 984-999cc's. Add SOHC and I think we have a very competitive race engine. I don't think that's what Erik wants though. He wants a good street engine that can be turned into a pretty good race engine. I think we won't see major changes to anything. I think 60 degrees will be the first. | ||
| Benm2 |
All the hardware for the FX bike exists, and Buell is at least doing what marketing they can for the bike. Plus, they haven't tried to hide the ram air or dual intake setup. Considering that the changes can be put into the new XB cases, they are the sort of running changes that can be done without alot of extra work. Plus, its obvious that the stroke for the XB motor is "adjustable". And, its also obvious that the racing effort is trying very hard to use stock-ish parts. I suspect there are reasons for all this. I really think Buell would like to capitalize on the XB racing effort in FX. A replica machine that has alot of the motor "trickness" would be a showroom draw. If only HD had freed up the cash earlier, so that the Buell's would have had more testing time before the season started. Just selling a bike that already has the stroke that the FX teams are using would be big cost saver for privateers who want to be competetive. New cranks are expensive, and so are the custom rods & such. It would be a good way for Buell to convince racers to try AMA FX on a Buell; to provide a starting point closer to what they're racing. ben | ||
| Pushrodpete |
Valves? What you talkin' bout VALVES, Willis??? Valves suck. I want a fuel-injected two-stroke. Please? Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease??? But since THAT's probably not gonna happen (again) I'm gonna go fire up the ol' Mach IV and kill some mosquitos. And my eardrums. And the goodwill of the neighbors.... | ||
| M1combat |
That's an excelent point BenM2... The stock stroke should be what they run in FX. Or at least have a 1350 available that's factory built. | ||
| Coolice |
It's Sunday nite and we have to keep this thread at the top every nite now til the 05's are out! Can't wait!! Keep your guesses comin... what's the prize...a Buell sticker? I'll say a sport tourer(I hope) | ||
| M1combat |
I don't think it'll be a sport tourer... I really think that Harley will do that if either (probably V-Rod powered) and Buell will stick to sport bikes and street fighters. I expect an XB1350R. | ||
| Outrider |
When are the 2005's being announced to the public? Have been dreaming so long now, I forgot. LOL | ||
| Socoken |
my guess is some new colors and a low 12, maybe a slight dip in some prices, nothing dramatic. | ||
| Glitch |
When are the 2005's being announced to the public? The 17th? | ||
| Mikej |
When will new banner images be released? The Buell intro page hasn't been updated beyond the bored of directors image yet. (and yes i spelled "bored" that way on purpose) | ||
| Whodom |
The webpage updates are something of a mystery. They added those new Mentos-esque flash intro pages, updated them adding more pages semi-daily for a month or so, and now they've stopped. I figured they were going for a big build-up for the new 2005's, but that doesn't seem to be it. Any insight on the webpage? | ||
| Blublak |
Hmmm.. Perhaps they'll stretch the XB frame a little.. add bags and give some actual room for a passenger.. Maybe they'll even call it a Thunderbolt.. Then again.. Maybe not.. On the other hand.. there's the idea they could be planning something totally.. Boring. Some new colors of plastic.. Green, Pink, Purple.. Hmmmm.. How about a 1200 motor in a silver frame/silver wheeled bike with White plastic. Or, maybe, just maybe.. A DOHC 8 valve monster with super oil cooling and so much power that 1 in 6 riders wreck it in the first three months because they can't control it.. Ok, those are my guesses for now.. Later, | ||
| Outrider |
Yep, that makes sense. Add Pink and most of those colors would look real good with a floral pattern. Just kidding.  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
1 in 6 riders wreck it in the first three months because they can't control it.. They have that already..XB9R..at least it seemed like it at the Gap in 02. | ||
| Glitch |
trust blue |
