| Author | Message | ||
     Sshbsn |
See, Dyna, to me what you describe is a touring bike. I never want to find myself in the middle of a long trip, stumbling across some heavenly twisty road, and have an extra 120 pounds perched up high and nervous behind me! I think any modern tourer can give decent handling. I guess I think a SPORT tourer is a sport bike that I can stand to spend several long days riding across country; it's probably just my own outlook. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
To me the word touring without sport in front of it means...Bagger. Ultra Classic Goldwing BMW LT Voyager Venture etc. Nice bikes, but certainly not sport oriented. Hondas VFR with optional hard bags..definitely sport tourer. Can carry 2 up very well & is fast, handles well, blah blah. | ||
| Skeeter_xb |
i would buy a quick detachable small fairing/windshield if the factory would make a decent looking one. | ||
| Skeeter_xb |
for the XB lightnings, that is! | ||
| Henrik |
I'd count the VFR, the FJR1100/1300, the BMW "S" model etc. as "real" Sport touring bikes - with emphasis on "Sport". I think the S2/S3 was a good attempt at hitting that market. Unfortunately GVWR and other issues prevented them from really shining. That said, I think Erik is correct. Considering the development cost of a bike like that, the issues that high mileage/high wear impose on those bike, differing greatly from the short hop bikes etc. etc., it just doesn't seem that it would be a profitable project. Henrik | ||
| Boulderbiker |
Dyna, what experience do you have that you are basing the "XB's make horrible two up machines" statement. I've got about 6k on mine now and about 4.5 of that is with my wife on board. I flipped her pegs around shortly after getting it, and made a new touring seat but besides that its fantastic 2up. I think people assume that due to the bikes proportions, but speaking from quite a bit of experience riding in the Rockies with my wife on back, and wearing over to the edge of my tread it does just fine. My wife agrees. So at this point I'm thinking some heli-clamps build a rack to hold some FJR bags like that photoshopped image I posted and I've got one heck of a lightweight great handling sport-tourer. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
I have ridden the bikes myself & have a number of firends who own them. Not 1 has a spouse who will ride on the back seat due to the extremely cramped quarters. | ||
| Bomber |
cramped quarters for some are comfie for others (this from a guy that did 800 mile days on an SR500 a couple of years ago) . . . . . me, I don't pack anymore . . . . takes way too much fun outa the deal . . . .everyone get their own bike, I say! (YMMV, of course) | ||
| Outrider |
Sport touring is many things to many people. BMW created the category, Kawi did a great job with the Concours (I had one), Honda beat everyone with the ST series (I have ridden many) and Yamaha upped the performance ante with their FJR1300. To me, a sport touring bike is any bike that you can get away for a weekend on with minimal luggage. A pair of saddlebags are fine but I prefer a tank and tail bag for solo riding which means almost any bike, including my X1 and former FJ1200, would fit my solo criteria. On a two up basis, a good set of saddlebags, tank bag and decent passenger accommodations are all that is required. However, those that are successful in with their "Sport Touring" models offer relaxed ergo's and good weather protection combined with good handling. The conclusion is that I have no doubt that Buell can provide an good solo Sport Tourer and that with a little effort in the ergo department they can have a good two-up entry as well. Incidentally, I bought Buell's two-up saddle for the X1 and the Sig "O" likes it. I like the comfort as well, but I find it a little cramped as it moved me further forward to provide additional space for the passenger. Then again, I have short legs with a long torso and arms. Other than that, it is great and a Buell XB Sport Tourer should fill most of your collective requirements. | ||
| Brucelee |
I am pretty happy with my VFR (which has helibars on it). Comfy and quiet for highway miles, plenty of speed and handling if I want it. | ||
| Court |
The VFR, in many ways defines the SPORT touring class. It is consistently a sickeningly GREAT motorcycle. Sport Touring bikes (can you say "baggage" Mr. Bill?) are incredibly expensive to design and manufacture right. I learn a lot about design, tooling and manufacturing and the amortization of costs during the S3 saddlebags. Ouch. Good intentions are no match for 6 figure sums....which "spread" poorly over units numbered in the hundreds. The S-2, hampered by somethings, remains a blast to get on and "just go ride the motorcycle". Not my fauly I ended up on the other coast. Hey...riddle me this? Anyone ever seen a Concours ridden POORLY? I have had my butt handed two me by two old men (Mt. Palomar - 1996 & Deal's Gap 1997) on Concours. Yes, the old men were my age and smooth as glass. I was sucked in, ground up and spit out by far more skilled riders. Just a couple thoughts... Court | ||
| Boulderbiker |
The 12's with the lower passenger pegs and flipped from one side to the other gives quite a relaxed position for the passenger (difficult mod I know). As for the stock seat, well how many people who tour much end up keeping any stock seat (I made one that gives my wife and I a nice supportive large seating area that according to others looks much like the corbin saddle for the fjr. Alright saddle is easily taken care of. Exhaust is nicely out of the way under the bike preventing any burns on passenger legs. Well at this point with minor modification, I'd say its a fantastic two up bike and my wife (tall at 5'10" and long legs) is actually more comfortable than myself. So as for it not being good for two, well the 9's in stock trim and that joke of a seat under the cowl, of course its not a good passenger accomodation, but between the 04's lower passenger pegs, the little flip trick and a new seat which is not a big change. I think its fantastic for two up sport touring. I've got a plan for mounting luggage that if I get to mount will be immensely slicker than the guys setup with the Multistrada bags and voila XB12ST with great two up comfort. If I can make such changes with such ease, I have full confidence that Buell can conquer this hurdle with better efficiency and ease than myself. Either way in the end I'll still have my XB12ST, whether they make one or not. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
I'm believe there are actually 2 different designations for the "sport touring" class of motorcycle. Take the Concours/BMW "K"/Trophy style of bike. They're more of a sport touring bike...take a bike that is mostly "tour" and add some sporting features (styling/handling/etc). Then there's the S3T/FJR/ST1300/ST4 style of bike. These are what I call a touring sport bike....mostly "sport" with some touring features (better wind protection/taller bars/removable hard bags/etc). I personally think that's why the latter are more popular. They give you the sportrider feel with the ability to take 2-3 day trips with or without a passenger. And you can take that trip in relative comfort. The reason the bikes like the Trophy are a dying breed is because the market isn't there for that crossbreed of bike. That being said...I think Buell would do just okay with a new "touring sport" model. It wouldn't be a blockbuster (but then none of them really have been). I also don't think I'd trade/sell my S3T for an XB-style touring bike! I still say we'll see a 600cc powertrain in the XB frame as a Blast replacement. Probably in the "S" model first with the "R" model as a mid-year release. Now that's a bike I would consider buying in the next year or two. | ||
| Mikej |
Someone had asked about when the aluminum framed Blast would be released, I asked where they heard the info/rumor from, I didn't see (or missed it) any reply from the poster. Could be. Or not. Either way it's still raining outside today. | ||
| Outrider |
"Baggage" Ok, I said it. My comments were just supporting Buell in the event they made the decision to assemble a sport tourer as requested by others on the BWB. Seems most that have reference the S3T as the configuration they liked which would indicate they want hard bags. Concerning hard bags and the larger fairing, they are not on my list of priorities for a sport tourer. Soft bags and protective clothing are. That way you can tailor the baggage to the load and create your own variable riding platform based on a bike you love to ride. Sure, I liked the Concours but I replaced it with a Yamaha FJ1200 with Yamaha's (Eclipse) tank bag and saddlebags as well as an aftermarket tail bag. Of interest, when I sold the FJ, the saddlebags were still brand new in the factory pack. Ergo, when I bought the X1, I only bought the tank and tail bags. I can go forever with a tank and tail bag along with Frommer's Guide to Famous US Laundromats. LOL When planning a camping trip, I use a different tail bag than shown in my profile pic. I use one similar in size to the bag RoadCrafter (Aerostich) sells for camping bikers. Fantastic capacity, narrower than saddle bags, still keeps the weight down low and really convenient. If I were to have a complaint about the X1, it would be the location of the gas tank vent tube. It limits the size tank bag you can use. Second, the tank bag that was designed for the X1 was a fine work of art but has no real capacity. Yep, that's the extent of my complaints about the X1. Real serious, eh? LOL From my perspective, if there is no consideration for a more comfortable passenger platform, there is no need for Buell to do anything but possibly introduce a new line of soft bags with larger capacity. | ||
| Outrider |
Addendum: Introduce an accessory saddle like BoulderBiker describes and you have a sporting sport tourer without all the expense. | ||
| Socoken |
i would think a blast motor in an XB would be too expensive. for the blast being an entry level, cheap thrills type bike, the added cost of the frame, wheels, suspension and such, might diminish some of what it is, and might drive people to just spend a little more and get a 9. i do think the blast is overdue for a makeover, but an xblast, might be more expensive than an entry level bike should be. however, an xb-looking blast would be a step in the right direction, IMO. | ||
| Outrider |
Anyone remember the accessory two-up saddle Kawi had for their big cruiser with the Indian styled fenders? Now there was an ugly saddle if I ever saw one. Can anyone say "Cantilevered?" | ||
| Gonen60 |
I would hope Buell would put more R&D into making a more pure sportbike. Full fairing, Higher HP and torque, Maybe some Carbon Fibre and Buell Racing colors. Of course I lean toward the sportbike side of the issue, and have never thought about owning a sport tourer. It seems their are a lot of you who would like a touring model, but not enough for Buell to build one. I believe the racier sportbike version would pull a lot more rider toward the buell world. Everyone always loves my bike, but true sportbike riders want more horses to run with. I think the XB/9s and XB/12s are beautiful machines, they just need a model that looks more like a true sportbike (full fairing) and has the power to match the look. | ||
| Blake |
Re: The "sickeningly GREAT" VFR... I noted a recent entry in Cycle World's tech help section where a new VFR owner was questioning his shop's estimate for periodic valvetrain maintenance/adjustment. The Cycle World expert confirmed that the job should indeed reasonably be expected to cost as much as $500 PLUS parts. The reason? The new VTEC valve actuation system requires a bunch more work compared to a conventional valvetrain. I'd prefer the pre-VTEC version if I were looking at a VFR. They are lighter and less complex with very good performance. The VTEC just doesn't bring enough to the party to justify the added complexity. On a touring bike, even a Sport Touring bike I'm not sure the VTEC system is worth it. Hydraulically actuated lifters sure would be nice though.  But hey, that's just me.   Dyno chart courtesy of Motorcycle Online Did the VTEC system significantly improve the power band? You tell me. | ||
| Blake |
I'm still hoping for the rebirth of a tube frame Buell. Apply the improved quality and fit and finish of the XB line to a new tube framed Buell and you'd likely be selling me a new Buell in the not too distant future. Ah heck, guess I'll have to build it myself. | ||
| Blake |
Bump the displacement up to 1350cc's too while your at it. I'm really expecting to see some really cool advancements to the Buell/HD air cooled twin. Maybe a change in bore/stroke along with a new valve actuation scheme? | ||
| Outrider |
Blake...Now that is an interesting scenario! | ||
| M1combat |
I'm all for the new valve actuation scheme. | ||
| Whodom |
While we're on the subject of valve actuation, I distinctly remember an article in Hot Rod magazine (remember when they used to have a motorcycle column?) in the early 70's on a prototype HD Sportster with an updated single OHC air cooled engine. Later saw a photo of it in an HD "coffee table" book but haven't been able to find anything on it since. Always wondered why HD didn't take this next logical step in developing the V-twin. Maybe Buell will finally do it. | ||
| Bomber |
that engine has appeared in a number of publications over the years . . . . if we couild only see everything every factory (or even just HD) has made just to see if it would work, we'd have eye candy (and otherwise) for years to come these day, with the advent of computer modeling and such, full sized mockups are seldom done . . . . good, from a cost standpoint, but kinda sad, limiting the what if factor would it be cool if the motorcycle industry made show bikes the way auto makers make show cars? some even make it into production! (I know, Honda is doing it, but darned few others!) | ||
| Glitch |
Remember the V4 Harley? There's you Sport Touring engine! | ||
| Glitch |
Here ya go  I'd love to have a couple of these to play with! | ||
| Whodom |
Glitch- thanks for the photo post. I picked up a mag with a great article on that project last year. Bomber- any photos of the SOHC V-twin? | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Glitch...cool link. I found some things that would be great for a watercooled Buell: The radiator lies almost horizontally, with two large forward-facing scoops protruding forward from what normally would be the fuel tank, funneling air into a plenum chamber above the radiator. A fan under the radiator pulls air through it, down and rearward, away from the rider and passenger. While the Nova had the radiator under the seat, why not under the airbox cover. Sounds like something that could be done with the current XB configuration. Did Erik work on this design? With the fuel tank displaced from its traditional location by the cooling system, H-D engineers designed a saddlebag-style tank that straddles the radiator. There is a distinct advantage in this location: a lower center of gravity Interesting stuff. It seems to me they could have saved a lot of time & money bringing back the Nova instead of developing the V-rod. |
