| Author | Message | ||
     Trevxb12 |
I have a 12R with race kit and has been pinging. told the harley/buell service guys about it and they said its a known condition, but won't do anything about it. I guess buell makes this performance mod, knowing it may cause a lean condition and won't do anything to fix/correct it for me, er thats what the tech. guy says. does anyone know/have any experience with this!!!!!  | ||
| M1combat |
I haven't heard of it myself... Maybe search around for a fuel station that uses three different hoses. You can get a large percentage of your fuel at a lower grade with our small tanks due to the left over fuel from the last customer that used the cheap stuff. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
trevo it is not a know condition ....and once again a harley dealer employee that doesn't know how to do nothing about nothing is at the helm.... the ruin of buell is also its savior.. trev it AIN'T normal | ||
| Trevxb12 |
any ammunition you could give me for my next conversation with "mr harley tech" would be great! thanx in advance!! | ||
| Blake |
Tell you'd like them to confirm their "expert" diagnosis with Buell customer service. Be careful, pinging is way bag on a Buell and can lead to overheating and a holed piston. And with no warranty you will be boofed. | ||
| Lovematt |
Performance does NOT mean poorly running. Pinging is a problem that occurs at all performance levels if the machine is not properly tuned. This includes timing, spark, air/fuel mixture, and heat...if all of these are not right then problems can occur on any machine. M1 brings up a good point in making sure the fuel is of the right octane and quality. I would start with this using a known fuel quality to see if that makes a difference. If it doesn't then it is something else...I have a feeling it is timing but that is just a guess. | ||
| Opto |
Pinging with the 12 race kit/race ecm is a known and admitted problem in Oz. "they are working on it" and only a small percentage of bikes are affected. First, get your ignition timing checked by authorized dealer. It is not uncommon for the timing to be advanced from the factory - mine was. Second, run the best gas available, don't mix good with bad (doesn't work), run a bad tank out or drain it and start afresh. Third, if it still pings, don't let the motor destroy itself. I know you can safely run a Drummer with stock ecm on a 12 but not sure about the race pipe. I feel a lot of people on this board think it's BS when just a few of us have pinging/flat spot/bad cold start issues with 12 race ecm's, but until it happens to YOU, you don't really want to believe it. There are many worse scenarios but a bad ecm is wasted time, effort, frustration and money. I can physically PROVE that my race ecm makes my 12 ping, and I can also physically PROVE that my race ecm runs the engine VERY lean with a mild acceleration throttle opening. I have given detailed info to HD, and "they are working on it". I am happy when I read about someone else fitting their new ecm/pipe/filter to a 12 and it works, because I wouldn't want them to suffer the disappointment of the other scenario. | ||
| Trevxb12 |
thanx guys, attempt number two will happen tomorrow. wish me luck!! | ||
| Glitch |
First, get your ignition timing checked by authorized dealer. I'll bet it's the timing. That was my problem. I've heard others say their bike's timing was advanced too far as well. My guess is that from the factory they set it to the advanced side to keep the bike lean to pass emissions. Once the Race ECM is installed it makes the advanced timing even worse. This is my guess. | ||
| 2k4xb12 |
My 12 (with Buell race kit) pings as well, but only on a HOT day. Fuel is not an issue with me, as it doesn't matter whether I'm running fuell from a single or three hose pump, or whether I'm running 91 or 93 (only found one station running 93 though). Is static timing something we can do ourselves without the dreaded Digital Technician? Steve. | ||
| Opto |
Is static timing something we can do ourselves without the dreaded Digital Technician? Yes, umm, do a search, or maybe Glitch knows all about that. | ||
| Glitch |
Yes, umm, do a search, or maybe Glitch knows all about that. I don't know weather to put in an LOL or a Crying OL... Do yourself a favor and take it in. You'll be happier for it. Should only be a 30 min job. Or you could do a search and see if you want/are able/care to try what I did. Edit: If I had it all to do over again, and know what I know now. I'd have taken it in. edited by Glitch on July 02, 2004 | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Before I'd keep on riding it,I would atleast put in a set of colder plugs. And then find a good dyno operator to see what is really going on. Don't rely on the dealer to save your butt,rarely happens........Later Charlie | ||
| 2k4xb12 |
Glitch -- I think I found the thread you're talking about. What kinds of problems did you encounter? I did the static timing last night and it took less than 30 minutes, including drilling out the plate to make the adjustment (yes, it was a bit off), and cleaning up the tools afterwards. Heres the way I did it: 1. Rear up on stand. 2. Remove seat. 3. Remove timing mark inspection plug. 4. Gently pry back the silicon rubber seal to gain access to the terminals of the gray connector on the ECM. You'll need to stab your DMM leads in from the back, and this makes it easier. 5. Set DMM to read DCV, 20V range. Insert black DMM probe into pin 7 (black wire with white tracer) and red DMM probe into pin 3 (if I racall correctly -- anyway, it's the green wire with the white tracer) 6. Sidestand up, key on, ignition switch on, transmission in 5th gear. You should hear fuel pump come on and then time out. 7. Looking through the timing mark inspecion hole, turn the rear wheel in a forward direction until the timing mark is visible at the left edge of the hole. You should see zero (or close to it) volts on the DMM. If you see +5V, then you're at TDC for the rear cylinder -- rotate the wheel until you see the mark again. 8. The meter should change from 0 to +5V just as the timing mark passes the center of the hole. As a bonus, the fuel pump comes on at the same instant, providing audible feedback as well. Turn the wheel slowly, and if you overshoot the mark, back it up until the mark is again at the left edge, and then go forward. Don't try to check/adjust it while turning the wheel backwards. 9. If the timing is advanced (transition occurs before center), nudge timing plate CCW. If the timing is retarded (transition occurs after the mark passes center), nudge the plate CW. If, as the other thread suggested, somebody wanted to connect an LED to monitor this transition, you could easily hook it up as follows: Connect a 330 ohm dropping resistor to the anode side of an LED. Hook the other end of the resistor to the green/white wire of the CMP sensor(pin 3, gray connector at the ECM). Hook the cathode of the LED to the black/white wire of the CMP sensor (pin 7, gray connector at the ECM). Using the above instructions, the LED would be off with the timing mark at the left edge of the hole with the front cylinder before TDC. It should then transition to ON just as the timing mark passes the center of the hole. On a side note -- how off can the timing be to actually affect performance? Mine was probably only a degree or so retarded (transition occurred with the mark at the right edge of the hole). Anyway -- hope this is helpful... I can take a couple photos of the connector with the silicon seal pulled back if that would help to clarify anything... Steve. | ||
| Opto |
Steve, nice bit of work, something worthy of the KV. In Australia we supposedly get 93, 95 and up to 98 octane fuel but I think it's BS, I think our 95 matches your 91. The pinging issues are definitely worse in summer. Trevxb12, can you give us an update? | ||
| 2k4xb12 |
Steve, nice bit of work, something worthy of the KV. Thanks... Just placed it there... |
