| Author | Message | ||
     Sardawg2dpd |
ITs unfortunate but loud pipes are an issue everywhere. Here in Iowa in the town that I am from they say if they can here your car, bike stereo anything farther then 50 feet....$340.00 the funny thing about that law though is 90% of the cops ride loud bikes too and really could give a **** less. Unless your bike sounds like crap | ||
| Vaughn |
Thanks for all the fine replies but this is getting out of hand. I'm not looking for sympathy over a speeding ticket. I pay my fines without reserve. Initially posted to say I had a Drummer for sale and thought I'd elaborate as to why since everyone would ask why. Anyway, a little subject change, let me give you my impression of the Drummer. This is a Drummer mounted to an XB12R with K&N filter. Also, riding at and above 6500'. Approximate HP loss is 3%/1000' (what I used as a powertrain engineer at GM). That said: The Drummer gives 4-5HP increase over the stock muffler (as quoted to me). At my altitude that's 3-4HP and not real easy to detect on the butt dyno. So to me it feels negligible except for a small decrease in acceleration below RPM vs the stock pipe. The Drummer at low RPM sounds awesome but loud when reved up thus requiring ear plugs for any duration of riding (for me that is). The stock pipe sound sucks. The Drummer decel pops always and even pops on steady cruise at times. Increasing the idle to above 1050 lessens the pop but gives idle hang. I don't like idle hang myself and prefer a quicker return to 1050. So to me the stock pipe performs as good and in ways better that the Drummer. If sound is what your after and your environment is acceptable to it, the Drummer sounds better in most cases (except decel). I vote we close this discussion. | ||
| Roc |
I second.  | ||
| Glitch |
Good review Vaughn. | ||
| Az28 |
Down here in "Sunny Florida" you can get away with any pipes you like. (at least in Palm Beach)  | ||
| 420at145mph |
thats the first time anyone has said the drummer backfires | ||
| Outrider |
In as much as I like the roar of a Harley or Buell with an aftermarket pipe and as much as I dislike CARB and the EPA for their OEM equipment only for road use smog and noise regulations, I truly wish that some aftermarket company could/would develop a high performance stealth muffler. Quite simply, I don't care to attract anymore negative attention while riding, especially in the countryside. Is the quickest way to get a ticket for the most minor infraction and/or increase law enforcement in your favorite riding areas. Concerning "loud pipes save lives," I disagree. Sound is relatively omnidirectional but is the most intense behind a moving vehicle, not in front of it. Chances of a motorist hearing you coming up behind them are slim. If they do hear you, most likely they will not be able to pin point where the sound is coming from until you pass them and then it is too late. You already scared them and made them madder with the excessive Db's. I run a Vance & Hines on my X1 and Cycle Shack's on my Wide Glide. Both are loud when you work the throttle, but both can be ridden relatively mellow when circumstances dictate it. To me, that is the beauty of the V-Twin. You can work the gearbox, ride the torque band and be relatively quiet or you can go for the HP in the higher RPM's and listen to the roar out of town. If you recall Dyna's TWT Thread, Milwaukee just shut down our best sport bike (read: Non-Harley) location for Two Wheel Tuesday. The cause was the sound, not the exhibition of speed or any other act of hooliganism. The place is still open but you really get hassled by the law, the residents and even the establishment as they don't care to lose their license due to the excessive noise in the 'hood. Gee, I wonder what is next on the Liberal's List of things to regulate? They already nailed smog, guns, smoking, noise, off roading, and a bunch of other things.  | ||
| Chainsaw |
Concerning "loud pipes save lives," FWIW: I commute daily in heavy city traffic. In my opinion the louder than stock pipe on my Sporty keeps inattentive cagers from merging into my lane. In a non-scientific comparison based solely on my own perception, it seems I am more likely to suffer a lane intrusion whilst on my Buell with stock exhaust than while riding aforementioned Harley. I would recommend to any doubters to ride the same route twice daily for 2 weeks. One week on a quiet bike, one on a loud bike and report back on which bike they felt was "safer" to be on in traffic.  | ||
| Freyke |
Vaughn, See here.... AMA_Law_Colorodo Maximum Sound Level Maximum allowable A-weighted sound levels based on measurements taken at a distance of 50 ft from center lane of travel, local authorities may adopt following: 1)Manufactured before 1/1/73--88dba at 35mph or less; 90dba at 35 to 55mph; 2) Manufactured after 1/1/73--86dba at 35mph or less; 90dba at 35 to 55 mph (25-12-107. Powers of Local Authorities). May I add that 90dBa is significantly loud... I'd be hard pressed to say the dummer would be 90dBa from 50ft... Notice it does not say anything about an OEM requirement... Sounds like the officer made up his own law.... kk//kef | ||
| Barkandbite |
Mr. Chain... Just having experienced said empirical testing methodology, I concur with your hypothesis. I ride 50 miles (one way) to work each day. Especially in Cali where one may split lanes in rush hour when everyone else is stopped, a quick blip and they move over. As for most "regular" lane position incursions, they have dramatically decreased since the installation of my race kit; people hear me coming from a longer distance and look. I don't need 130 dB, but the race kit is working its magic for me in the accident avoidance arena just fine. YMMV...or, based on the other threads, it may not! Chris | ||
| Freyke |
Onw more interesting tid-bit dBa comparisons kk//kef | ||
| Prof_stack |
Both my Buell and Electra Glide have stock mufflers. The Harley gets less intrusion from other traffic because of the wide profile of the front and rear. Doesn't hurt that it resembles a police bike. Seattle has Harleys on the beat these days. I pretty much have to wear bright reflective gear on the Buell where as I can go "Harley black leather" on the hog. | ||
| Outrider |
Chainsaw...After 30 years of driving and riding (read: lane splitting) the LA and Orange County freeways and major arterials plus and additional 10 years driving and riding in Wisconsin, I could not disagree with you more. Then again, they may not be indicative of motorist awareness levels in Colorado. YMMV | ||
| Barkandbite |
Bill (outrider): Are you saying that your experience is that drivers do not have a heightened level of perception and awareness when the exhaust note of a bike is raised to the point that they (a) hear you coming and (b) look around to see where the noise is coming from? I'm not looking to be argumentative, but I ran for a month (on my new XB) with the stock (read: quiet!) muffler and then a month with the race kit. I can, without a doubt, describe a marked difference in the way in which surrounding motorists react to me and my scoot. I travel the 91E -> 605N -> 210E or 91E -> 57N -> 210W every day and I can empirically describe my experiences in the carpool/fast lane (including splitting) and how it has changed during the transition above: (a) Drivers look in their side mirrors more (b) Drivers have moved over (out of my way to let me pass) when they hear me (c) I have more people stare at the bike All of those have added up to a much nicer (and safer) commute for *ME* Now, certainly you've been riding longer than I have, but my experiences dispute your statements. YMMV. Chris | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Hate to disagree with you Bill....well ok, maybe I do...but in my experience the louder bike definitely gets their attention easier. They may not always know exactly where I am, but they do become more alert because of the noise. And I have never had any issue with hearing bikes that are coming up from behind me. Maybe those who say all the noise is going behind the bike so it only affects cage drivers after they pass them, need to turn their hearing aids up a touch? Am I saying loud pipes save lives? No, but I am saying it sure as hell cant hurt. | ||
| Odie |
I would have to agree with Bark here. My wideglide with drag pipes magically moves traffic from my path and I can see that drivers become more aware of my presence sooner as I am much louder than they are. I rode my 12S for less that 24 hours and almost got merged into twice. I rode the demo bike with race kit and people noticed me sooner and nobody merged into me;they moved over for me. If these combined findings between barknbite and myself are not truly scientific then I don't know what is!!! | ||
| Outrider |
Well, I guess my experiences were different. I saw no difference between my loud and quiet bikes when over taking a vehicle from behind. At least not until I got within a few feet of the vehicle and then they do all sorts of crazy swerving maneuvers including tying to cut me off. Road Rage??? To give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps I would have experienced more conflicts had all stealth bikes. Then again, the stable was roughly 50/50 loud/stock and I honestly noticed no difference. Same goes for the current stable, X1 and Wide Glide. Both are loud when I get on the throttle and mellow at cruise. Yet, Rodney Dangerfield's line about getting No Respect still applies. LOL Consider the mentality of the cage driver, especially one with the windows up, A/C or heater on and stereo cranked up. Not the norm? Wrong! Next time you commute in LA/OC do an informal survey and check out all the folks riding in that condition and singing along with the radio. Under those circumstances, if anyone moved over for you it is because they saw you, not heard you before you were along side them. Tis one nice thing about living in a State where lane splitting is legal. Folks do tend to check their mirrors more before changing lanes. Concerning my commutes, I lived in Dana Point and in the good years, I only had to commute to Huntington Beach, Anaheim or Santa Fe Springs. In the tough years, it was as far as Ventura, Lancaster and Palm Springs. Then working my way back home via the San Fernando or San Gabriel Valley's. In Odie's merging scenario, more info would be nice, but in a typical merging move one vehicle is usually in close proximity to the other, with the bike either along side or slightly behind the other vehicle. Not a recommended position to be in by any advanced riding skills publication and I can see where louder is better in that scenario. Incidentally, there has been much written both pro and con concerning loud pipes save lives. All the con comes from the more scientific side and almost all of the pro comes from the riders of loud bikes. Honest! Check it out. Not trying to upset anyone, just pointing out both what I have read and what I have experienced. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Going to test out the quiet bike theory in a few minutes. Headed up to Torque Center for a look see & then to Hooters for lunch  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
All the con comes from the more scientific side ? How can it be proven scientifically? Those same people doing those studies are also the ones trying to push forth mandatory helmet laws. | ||
| Outrider |
Hahahaha...I knew the helmet line was coming. I actually addressed it in my last post but erased it and decided to wait and see. As you know, I have a love/hate relationship with helmets. Only use them when I need to for law or riding activity. Almost always wear one on sport bikes both on and off road. Never on the cruiser. Even sold my cruiser when CA passed their helmet law. Figured if I had to wear one, I might as well ride a bike where I might need one. The inverse is, I never crashed on the road until I started pushing the envelope with the sporting machinery. Just going a little too fast and hit gravel one time and mud slide the second at the apex. Guess I just got a little bullet proof and had a false sense of security, eh? All the cons come from the more scientific side Note the operative word "more." The Con article's usually include some Db tests and charts or at least reference them. They also get more into the physical properties of sound like direction, reflection and other things that semi-obscure the source. Trust me, I am not qualified to expound upon either other than from my readings and experiences. Additionally, many of these sources profess to be pro-choice concerning helmet use. Go figure??? | ||
| Odie |
Ya'll are right. There is no way to make this scientific. If everybody drove they way they were supposed to and weren't doing 5 other things while driving that they shouldn't be doing the roads would be a much safer place for all of us. However- I feel that the sound of my bike; whether it comes from behind them or beside them(remember low tones are more omnidirection- a subwoofer doesn't care where it's at in the sound spectrum); alerts people to my presence more often than not. I do not stay in anybody's blind spot except to transition to a better location. I am a VERY defensive driver and rider because in Alabama they can't drive for crap. I'm not kidding when I say these are the worst drivers I've ever seen. I have attended the MSF Experienced Riders Course and I have rode on the street since 1984. IMO I believe that people are just more aware of SOMETHING close to them and it heightens their senses slightly. Ever little bit helps in my opinion!!! | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
I do not stay in anybody's blind spot except to transition to a better location. I am a VERY defensive driver and rider because in Alabama they can't drive for crap. Thats the whole key to survival Odie. I preach this to the new kids who show up for meetings, I preach it to friends & family members. #1...Ride as if you are invisible & everyone is out to kill you. #2.. Never ride in blind spots #3.. Never ride next to semi's #4.. Always leave yourself an out. By that I mean I ride as if I am in a coccoon. No matter what direction a vehicle may come from, I have an opposite direction to go to. I dont allow cars or trucks to ride next to me. When on the interstate I stay in the left lane for 2 reasons, usually im hauling @ss anyways & #2 it leaves only 1 direction that cars can come from to worry about. | ||
| Barkandbite |
That's twice in one day, Dyna! I agree with (and practice) everything you mention above. It's amazing how many riders I see just plodding along next to Cagers as if they were another car...until the bigger of the two decides to make a lane change! If I'm coming up to a car, I'm either going to get in front of it or stay well behind it, but I'll never saddle up next to it. Chris | ||
| Outrider |
Agreed with all. Not to mention, nobody busted me for having loud pipes on both my current bikes. LOL Wish Alabama had a monopoly on bad drivers, but it just ain't so. Wisconsin is worse than anywhere else I have lived. At least I stand a better chance on my bikes than I do my car. I drive a lowered Miata and nobody sees that in the SUV Sea. Whoops, almost forgot. I have a competition pipe on it too.  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Bill, had some joker in a white Miata try to race me off a light in Bayview earlier today. Guy was reving the damn thing up like he had a pro stock. I seriously sat there just looking at him, shaking my head & laughing. And no I didnt even waste the gas on him. Love to hear the stories he told once he got home about how his Miata smoked an R1 | ||
| Outrider |
Too funny...Have to admit there are a lot of Miata's in the area with turbo's but they still aren't going to be able to read your plate in less than a second. Just never understood the need for the turbo's. Superchargers make a lot more sense in the twisties and (like I always say) going fast in the straights will only get you a ticket. I just settled for a ram air system with pipe, a few other mods, and lots of suspension work on mine and it does everything I want it to very well. Just like my X1. My neighbor just bought a Boxster. Ewww...Is that ever nice but I still like the spartan approach of the Miata. Just turned 90.0K and still going strong with no malfunctions. Not to mention, I drive mine all winter long and his will be in storage. LOL | ||
| Glitch |
#1...Ride as if you are invisible & everyone is out to kill you. #2.. Never ride in blind spots #3.. Never ride next to semi's The only thing wrong with this is rule #3, I would make it "next to, or behind" Good rules R1DS. | ||
| Outrider |
Ahhh...Words to "live" by. Quite a few more, but those are a great start. | ||
| Unibear12r |
Yes indeed! | ||
| Jasonxb12s |
Some advanced rider instructor in Charlotte asked me about my exhaust. I told her about the Drummer and let her hear the nice rumble. I told her that more people would hear me coming, and that I felt safer with the pipe,,although that was not my inspiration for buying the can. She then promptly told me, in a condescending manner, "Actually, people can only hear your pipe after you pass them." Of course, being the smart @ss that I am, I told her that the speed of sound far exceeded the top speed of my bike,,,that's why you don't hear a sonic boom.. Stupid beehatch. She was not a Buell fan, but the student taught the teacher a thing about the speed of sound...She upset me with her bull headed, I-know-it-all-instructor-attitude. So I had to bash her. |
