| Author | Message | ||
     Starter |
Have a bit of a problem here in Australia. We have Mobile 1 15W-50 Racing 4T oil for motorcycles. Then we have Mobile 1 15W-50 Racing Performance Oil for cars. The bike oil is subject to supply agreements and to get it you need to have a bike related business or you pay an arm and leg for it. Now the car version can be bought by anyone from the distributor for a 1/4 the price and it comes in 5 quarts instead of 4 as an added bonus. I suppose I am wondering who uses the bike and who uses the car version. | ||
| Ftd |
I would use a synthetic of some kind (Mobil 1 if possible) but not "Racing" oil. They are designed for a whole different environment than normal street use. Frank | ||
| Brucelee |
I use the car oil, always have. Great stuff. | ||
| Starter |
I think you'll find most of the bike oils in Synthetic will be called "race" something just for marketing purposes. For som reason everyone on hte street seems to want to be a racer. | ||
| Bykergeek |
i've used the car version of Mobil1 15w50 for years and in several bikes. Great Stuff. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Ditto on the Mobil-1 15w50 auto oil in my (former) Blast and (current) XB9S. Better than HD360 or syn3, imho. $pend more if you think you need the v-twin version of the stuff; perhaps if you're running hard in hot weather conditions. | ||
| 984_cc |
On these bikes it would be okay to use the car oil because the engine oil and transmission oil is seperate. But, on most bikes where the engine and trans oil is shared, it is a very good idea to use the oil formulated for motorcycle engines. Car oil is not formulated for 'wet' clutches. Some people might disagree, but it is also a good idea to wait a few thousand miles before using a full synthetic oil (real synthetic, not mineral-oil based). I know alot of people say "yeah, but my such and such came with synthetic from the factory"- this is usually not the case, just misinformation. On low production vehicles, where they can afford to 'run-in' the engine dyno testing them, they might come with synthetic or a semi-synthetic. Some people say Corvettes come with Mobil 1 synthetic, but this is not true, they only recommend Mobil 1 synthetic. They assume that the first time you change your oil, you will have accumulated enough miles to run synthetic. A lot of engines come with a blend specially formulated for break-in. Amsoil even recommends at least 3000 miles before using their synthetic. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so you can disagree if you like, I won't argue my point. Do what you will. | ||
| Freyke |
Rahja on the 15W-50 it's CF rated... It works great I use it in the primary as well... kk//kef | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
I've been looking into various synthetic auto oil, and found one (Amsoil Series 2000 20W-50) that's also rated for motorcycle use, JASO MB. But this product is rather expensive, $8/qt. The ones with MB, as opposed MA, means that it includes friction reducing agents (modifiers). Since the XB engine oil is not shared with the wet clutch application, I figured it would be better on the engine to use synthetics with friction modifiers. I'm getting about 55-64mpg (city/highway) with Amsoil 2000, more or less, that's about 20 miles more to a tank then before with Amsoil 20W-50 synthetic motorcycle oil, which is rated JASIO MA. I only have about 2500 miles on it. So it could also mean that my engine is finally loosening up, rather than this particular oil improving mpg. It seems to me that most 10W-30 synthetics include friction modifiers, but not the case for 20W-50. Anyone know any other 20W-50 synthetics that include friction modifiers? | ||
| Brucelee |
"Some people say Corvettes come with Mobil 1 synthetic, but this is not true, they only recommend Mobil 1 synthetic" You are factually wrong and Chev, Porsche et all will confirm that they fill their new cars with Mobil 1 at the factory (btw- I toured Bowling Green and asked them point blank about this fact!). Having said that, that does not directly follow that this would apply to all bikes. But, posit this, why does HD tell you that you can use their syn oil prior to so called "break in" on Buells? Bottom line is that Mobil One 15-50 is good for the Buell engine any old time. From here on in, facts, not opinions please?? | ||
| 984_cc |
Misinformation- Audi dealers telling customers their cars have Mobil 1 synthetic. Reality- Audi cars come with a Mobil 1 blend (crude-based semi-synthetic) for break-in (I've toured the Neckarsulm plant where I lived once for awhile and spoke to the actual engine designer). Only the engine designers truly know what should go into their engines. Production engineers are not the mechanical engineers. Production engineers will sometimes be completely wrong in what to specify for the final product on the assembly line because the right hand doesn't always know what the left hand is doing. If the production engineer specified synthetic for new engines, and doesn't ask what the engine designer would recommend, then he is doing a great disservice for everyone that buys the product. Sometimes even the guy at the assembly line doesn't know exactly what goes into the engine (other than it's just Mobil 1 brand). The 911 is a low-enough production car that quite possibly, they do some engine dyno-testing and run-in before shipping. So they might actually come with synthetic. Corvettes are a higher-volume production car (great car by the way). They would cost more if GM spent the time to run-in the engine. My Aprilia dealer's mechanic was (is) a bonehead and he told me that Aprilia sends their bikes with synthetic. I said- what about break-in? He said- "Oh, they already break the engine in for you at the factory".- This is how misinformation is spread. That would be very expensive and time consuming for such a high-volume engine. I didn't believe him for a second. My owner's manual didn't say I could use 'syn' before break-in either. Most of the time the dealers are in the dark unless they have a really experienced and competent mechanic. Here's the bottom line- You're opinion is just an opinion, can't be proven or disproven. Same as mine. However, an opinion based on fact and common sense is superior. I said I didn't want to argue. Keep you're misinforming opinions to yourself. End of conjecture.  BTW- Amsoil recommends waiting until 3000 miles to use their synthetic. Many companies recommend against using synthetic until after break-in. | ||
| Bomber |
what's HD shipping their bikes with? Dino, or their relatively new synth? | ||
| Brucelee |
No of course you are right. The guys at the Corvette plant don't really know what they are putting in the corvette and they certainly would lie to me if they did know. And they would do that why????? Give me a break, you have no facts other than what you want to believe. Yes, stay away from that bad synthetic stuff. Keep using the dino during break in. Did you burn witches in a previous life??? PS-mechanics at my Porsche dealership would die if you went near their engine with dino oil. | ||
| 984_cc |
Couldn't tell you. I would hope crude-based. Some oils classified as synthetic are not actually true synthetic oils (mineral-oil based). | ||
| 984_cc |
They probably thought you looked like you would forget what they told you immediately after. Those Porsche mechanics at your dealership must be pretty frail.  | ||
| Spike |
According to Harley-Davidson, all of the current Screamin' Eagle bikes are shipped with Syn3 straight from the factory while rest of the bikes are shipped with standard HD360. Then again, I'm a dealer employee, and not an engine designer.  | ||
| Ftd |
The Harley CVO bikes come with Syn3 from factory. The tractive coeficients (measure of slipperyness)for synthetics and mineral oils are the same. The synthetics' advantages are better thermal/oxidative protection which of course are of importance to oil/air cooled engines. There are absolutely no sound reasons to not use synthetic oils from day one. Vipers, Corvettes and Bourgets come from the factory with synthetic. FTD | ||
| 984_cc |
I'm assuming Syn3 is called Syn3 because it is a Group III synthetic. Group III synthetics are not a full synthetic (true synthetic) oil. They start out as a group I (solvent frozen mineral oil). Castrol Syntec is one of these types of oils. Amsoil is a Group IV synthetic (Polyalphaolefin) and these are the most affordable full synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group V synthetic (plant or animal based fatty acids). They are converted by chemical reaction into esters or diesters which are then used as base stocks. Esters are polar, which means they act like a magnet and actually cling to metals. This is why during break-in, you wouldn't actually be breaking-in your motorcycle very efficiently if you used this type of synthetic. Mobil 1 actually brought a complaint against Castrol for changing their base stock from a Group IV PAO, to a Group III base in their Syntec oil. They claimed Group III oils were not really "synthetic oil" and shouldn't be called such. Well Castrol won. Group III oil can be called "synthetic oil". Synthetic blends are a common factory oil.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
The only reason to not run synthetic during break in is because (if you are like me) you will be changing it at 500 miles, 1500 miles, and 3000 miles. No good reason to spend the extra money on the first two changes if you can get good quality non synthetic cheap (think: castrol GTX 20w50 non synthetic). | ||
| Rocketman |
I've only ever ran my S1W on Mobil 1 4T racing. Rocket | ||
| Sshbsn |
Say, what oil should I run in my XB12? | ||
| Zeek |
984_cc I am impressed. I work at a XOM plant that packages Mobil 1 and you seem to talk the talk. I do not want to get into the whole break-in thing but I am watching for incorrect statements. For example, Porsche does factory fill with Mobil 1 0W-40, or at least that is the info I have. I have been considering using the regular M1 since it is diesel rated like Buell recommends. Zeek | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
My thoughts, The service manual specifies Diesel engine, CF or higher rating. Mobil 1 is CF rated. I think the coating effect is important. Like Pepto, "The one that coats, is the only one that counts!" (Start up wear) It's had cheaply at Wally World, and I love the way all the engine noise quieted down when I use it. The tranny rolls through the gears much more easily. However, I do buy into the whole break in period deal. I wouldn't use it before 3000 mi. Instead changing the oil frequently with the cheap stuff during this time. Anyway, it's all I'll use. | ||
| Spike |
Not to hijack the thread, but it seems as though we have a few oil gurus here and I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on tranny fluid. According to Amsoil, XL engines use a 20w50 motor oil in the transmission/primary. Would Mobil 1 15w50 be sufficient for use in the tranny? Also, what's the difference between a 20w50 motor oil and a 75w90 gear oil? Mike L. | ||
| Brucelee |
In my experience, the use of Mobil 1 75-90 transformed the shifting on my bike. Wonderful change which many on this board have experienced. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Spike.. somebody posted a chart, hopefully it was in the knowledge vault. The actual viscosity of the two oils are just about identical. The difference in the gear oil is that they can put in all sorts of fancy additives that will help prevent breakdown, but that you would not want to put into normal motor oil because it leaves nasty residues if it burns up in a combustion chamber. So normal 15w50 would be fine as a tranny oil, but full synthetic gear oil will have a better additive package for use in a transmission. edited by reepicheep on June 18, 2004 | ||
| Freyke |
Wow... Feel the passion.... about oil?... This is indeed the ever burning subject similar to agruments about the chicken and the egg, abortion, evolution, creationism, traditional crust or Sicilian.... Bravo! edited by freyke on June 18, 2004 | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
Passion, and ignorance. I honestly don't know a damn thing about oil other than the info posted on the manufacturers web pages. So, I'm glad the oil threads persist. I value what others have experienced. So, here's another question. My dealer said 75-90 was too heavy to run in the tranny. Was he just feeding me bull so I'd buy the HD stuff? Seems to me a lot of people on this board run it with no ill effect. What gives? | ||
| Brucelee |
Yes, your HD dealer was feeding you bull. If this were true, trans performance would degrade, not improve as it has for everyone on this site that has made the switch to Mobil 1 75-90. HD dealers are notoriously ignorant and/or dishonest in the oil dept. ••••, HD doesn't even put API ratings on their oil, so how the hell could we trust them with oil issues. Remember, they make the ONLY really good synthetic, right? What bozos these guys are. Not including the HD/Buell dealers who contribute to this site!!!!!! | ||
| Prof_stack |
My dealer said 75-90 was too heavy to run in the tranny. Was he just feeding me bull so I'd buy the HD stuff? YES he was, but perhaps not intentionally. |
