| Author | Message | ||
     Stealthxb |
I need to put together a tool set for working on my Lightning. I have not gotten a service manual yet so I do not know the details of the basic tools required for XB maintenance and modification. I was wondering if I could get some suggestions on the best solution for getting as complete a selection of tools possible for around $150US? Does anyone have a Craftsman set they recommend? | ||
| Socoken |
got a place you take your car to to get worked on? if so, ask when the tool guys are there, matco, mac, snapon, ect. they are traveling salesmen of sorts. in any case, track one of them down, get a name and number, then ask about used tools. most of them have a selection of used stuff they take in, and will sell fairly cheap, if not, odds are, they can find what you need. all a guy really needs is some box ends, some allens, a couple torx, socket set, and basic screw drivers. after that, just buy what you need on a case by case basis, i know i start projects sometimes just to get new tools. | ||
| Mikej |
Stealth, Head down to your nearest Sears store and start watching for their tool sales. $150 could get yo a fairly complete starter set. Add additional tools as you find the need on a piece by piece tool by tool basis. Rummage/garage sales are a great place to find individual tools, so are thrift shops.  | ||
| Henrik |
I like the Craftsman stuff. I usually buy their "Pro" line of tools. They seem a bit more substantial, the wrenches are a bit slimmer for easy access to tight spots ... and they're nice and shiny  I started with one of their SAE + metric sets and built out from there. Their new sockets are nice, with the size lazer etched into the metal. Something like this is a good starting point ... and a slippery slope to "I NEED MORE TOOLS" insanity  I have mostly 6-point sockets, both standard depth and deep sockets. 6-point has a bit more surface than 12-pt, so my theory is that they're less likely to round off a bolt. But the 12-pt is nice for ease of use - though not necessary. Accessory sets such as this or this are nice. But at least make sure to get some 1/4" and 3/8" extensions. You'll be happy you did. Learning from a mechanic friend, I almost always us an extension on sockets. Makes it so much easier to work. Big nuts/bolts being the exception. I have also found that I go for either a 3/8" stubby flex ratchet or the regular 1/4". I have a much better feel for how much I tighten stuff. Break out the big wrenches and risk stripping stuff. That said you ought to start saving for a good quality torque wrench. Get their plastic socket racks - do not buy their metal ones. They're just a few $$ and helps keep things organized (yes - that's *very* important to me ) Also buy a set of their Pro screw drivers, as set of Pro pliers and you're well on your way. Other stuff that's nice to have: Allen sockets, T-handle allens, ball-end allen. Ratcheting combination wrenches (the Craftsman Pro version is nice), electrical multimeter, snap ring pliers etc. I also bought certain tools from discount warehouses such as www.harborfreight.com. Dead blow hammer, non-marring bronze hammer, ball peen hammers, jack stands, brass punches, reach/retreive tools (magnet and claw - saved my hide many a time ), SAE/metric impact socket set, impact driver etc. And as Ken says - as you take on different projects, you can use that as an excuse for buying more tools. My name is Henrik, and I'm a Tool-aholic ... P.S. ok, so this reads like a Craftsman commercial. I do have a few SK and Snap-On tools as well. They're great tools, exceptionally well made, and I'd love to be able to afford a whole tool cart full of them - but that won't happen in this lifetime. So for me the Craftsman Pro line is a good compromise between the ultimate durability and well designed tools that are a pleasure to work with. And I guess that's often the deciding factor for me (other than $$ of course) that a tool is well designed and is nice to work with. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Another approach would be to drive yourself to your nearest harbor freight. They are cheap tools, but have been (in my experience) OK. Not great, but very usable. The prices however are *fantastic*. So if I were starting from scratch, I would be sorely tempted to get the starting set of tools from Harbor Freight, and then as I break things / find things inferior, go to sears / snap on / whatever and get a quality part. There is something liberating about really cheap tools. If I need to grind down a pair of needle nose pliars to make an ad hoc snap ring remover, I just do it. Or pound a screwdriver if it makes sense at the time to accomplish something important. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
I have to agree with Henrik. For the price, and the frequency of sales, and specials for "Craftsman Club" members,(an additional 10% off on sale items during Craftsman Club days). Craftsman tools are never a wrong choice! Break it, return it, get a new one. No arguing, and no waiting for the Snap-on, Matco, etc vendor to come by. Another good thing to have is a Craftsman master rethread kit. Saved my butt last night, the big bolt on the rear caliper body on my XB started off center, almost cross threaded it, the kit squared it all up and saved ruining a caliper! That was $49.95 minus 10% (Craftsman Club Member of course!!!). I am thinking a new caliper would have been four times that amount!!! I too am a tool-a-holic. I don't want to know the dollar value of what in in my shop, in the tool cabinets (plural!!!)!!! Way past the price of a XB!!! | ||
| Henrik |
Bill; you're right about Harbor Freight tools. Most are ok and cheap enough that you don't really worry about it. A Buyer Beware though: some things I've bought there haven't been worth even that very low price. And unless you can go to one of their stores and see/feel for yourself, there is no way to know. For instance; I bought a whole set of snap-ring pliers - complete junk. The pin snapped on the first use. A scratch awl that won't hold a point and fell apart to boot. Bought a hammer drill; the chuck was off center and it wouldn't go into "hammer mode". Granted the drill was a refund, but it cost me time, aggravation and shipping. So now I only buy stuff from them, that I'm almost certain, it'd be hard to screw up ... like a hammer On the other hand, the $50 drill press and $50 electric impact wrench both have performed fine. Not the most polished of tools, but well worth it. Henrik | ||
| Bomber |
if you're really on a tight on a budget, I'd suggest somewhere other than Craftsman . . . .they are great tools, but HFrieght and other outlets (for most handtools) are fine, especially for a relatively new piece of iron like the XB where the quality of Sears handtools really paid off was when I was working on old beaters and the like, with fasterners that hadn't been touched since the car left the factory . . .. (removing the rear drum on my 6volt Beetle killed three sears breakerbars) . . .. } oh, yeah, are XBs a mix of inch and metric fasteners, like tubers? also, Henrik . . .go here http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_2000 to feel better about your tool fetish . . .things could be much worse! edited by bomber on June 18, 2004 edited by bomber on June 18, 2004 | ||
| Roc |
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&fromA uto=YES&bidsite=&pid=00946573000 I like the above Craftsman set and I think there was a flier in the newspaper about it being included on their Father's Day sale - around $125. Buying a set from Craftsman is much cheaper than buying everything sole. I prefer 6 point drive too, better grip and just as easy to use with a ratchet. You will need metric and standard for sure, the kit has both. Deep drive sockets, which the kit has, are also very nice. Next I would buy a troque wrench. I have a big Craftsman, FT-LBS, and a smaller one too, IN-LBS. The click type are nice, but on a tighter budget the visual type will work fine. Do not leave these set, it will make them less accurate in time. After this buy either a volt meter or a breaker bar. I have a 1/2" drive breaker bar with 3/8" adapter that I use often, but this is a down the road thing because Craftsman will replace ratchets that are monkeyed up. Also good are the allen head sockets, buy one for metric and standard, but this could be down the road. The socket sets will ball ends are great too. Do get a manual and also a way to lift the bike. When you work take your time, try to work so that you do not have a deadline, follow the manual, and ask when you need help - this board is great. Given that you will do a very good job I'm sure. To avoid cross threading fasteners you can put them square in the hole and then turn them the direction you would to loosen them. When the thread align you will hear and feel a "click" as the origins of the threads pass one another, then start to tighten it. | ||
| Roc |
You will also need loctite, blue and red, and antisieze often. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Are you looking for a workshop sized collection or what you can carry on your bike? | ||
| Socoken |
yeah, get the big bottle of blue loctite, that stuff isnt cheap either. the LAST thing you want to do is get in a hurry to finish something, run out of loctite, and just figure you will finish without it and come back and use loctite later. if you buy quality tools, you are more likely to take care of them and keep track of them, and they will last a lifetime. just think of all the money it will save you over the course of the rest of your life by doing your own work. buy nice tools, buy a nice box, and keep them organized and clean. keep in mind, 150 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you could spend. i know a lot of mechanics that spend 100 times as much, and my father, a machinist and fabricator, has nearly 1,000 times as much invested in tools. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Bomber... Yes... The XBs are a mix of standard & metric!!! The caliper that I almost cross threaded was metric in and out! I had forgot I used a metric socket to remove the bolt... and when I was looking for the correct thread chaser, I at first could not figure why I could not find the right one, until I "discovered" the metric fit... Duh!!! If it doesn't have loctite on it... it has anti-seize!!! | ||
| Bomber |
good tips on quality and long-term savings . . . . no doubt about it, true as can be not everyone, however, is in a position to spend the dough needed to do so up front (I remember I wasn't . . . as a result, I have several times invested in my tools that my present set would have cost me had I purchsed them first loctite & never-sieze are must-haves signed -- a training and documentation wonk who likes tools ALOT! (still learning how to butcher metal on the lathe and mill) | ||
| Peter |
Forget $150. Just contact your  rep, and get on his weekly payment scheme. You'll soon accumulate the tools you need, and they'll last you for the rest of your life. | ||
| Henrik |
Bomber - I've been to the edge (Griots Garage) and managed to step back. Maybe there is hope for me still ...... nah. Peter: evil tempter - next you'll be telling him that the first one is on the house ... (Peter used to be "one of them" ) Besides, for the $150 budget he'd get one 3/8" Snap-On ratchet and nothing else Henrik | ||
| Reepicheep |
Now that I think about it, you should build up your set of quality tools the same way every other red blooded American male has... Steal them from your Dad! I'm getting close to 40 now, and am still using some good Craftsman tools. Dad has been polite enough to not bring it up Come to think of it... I saw my 6 year old and my 4 year old running around with one of my good hammers yesterday...  | ||
| Stealthxb |
Thanks for the help all... This thread is truly insightful. Wyckedflesh... I am looking for a set for the garage. Peter... Believe me, I would love to start a Snap-On collection but the last thing I need right now is another payment plan! | ||
| Bomber |
yard and estate sales can also give great deals, although the latter can leave you feeling like a ghoul had a business close round here last month . . . . big old roll cab of good Matco tools auctioned for 1,500! great deals are to be had, just keep you peepers peeled | ||
| S2pengy |
At alot of flea markets you can find used Snap-on, Mac or Craftsman tools that can be real good deals or traded in for new stuff.... | ||
| Roc |
Reepicheep - When I was in high school I realized all of my Dad’s better tools had my uncle’s name engraved in them. Probably uncles cast offs, but funny. | ||
| Court |
Mark me down as a big fan of Craftsman. Every time I end of in Sears I seem to leave with 3X what I went for....headed there for a dryer today watch out! I think I also have every tool that Klein has ever made. I really lilke their screwdrivers, nutdrivers, etc. I've given up great vices to get here. | ||
| V2win |
Stealthxb, Good tools vs cheap tools. Cheap tools are kind of like a limp d__k; you just can't do the best job with it. Spend your money on good tools. You will be happier in the end. Craftsman, Snap-on, Mac, Klein for some special stuff. Stay away from the cheap stuff if you want something that will last and be there when you need it later. While Craftsman has increased their coverage in the tool market lately, their box and open end wrenches are NOT the quality they were twenty years ago. My old wrenches are stronger, more durable and more slim than the new wrenches they now sell. But, I still buy them because they are acceptable and the warranty is good. If I had more money to spend on tools then Snap-on has the best in the market. For what its worth. | ||
| Odie |
19 years ago I bought a 150 piece Craftsman tool set to work on my new Interceptor. To this day I have 90% if not more of those tools. Of course I have added quite a bit since then. Pawn shops are a treasure trove of good tools. Sometimes I find a broken Craftsman and take take it to Sears and get a new tool! As always, when the wife wants a new project started I look at it in the sense of "what new tool or tools can I get out of this one" so be more receptive to your other half sometimes......... | ||
| Outrider |
Hahaha...19 years ago almost the entire Craftsman line was made in the USA and Companion was their import line. Not so for over 10 years now. Even their US suppliers have much of their line made offshore. | ||
| Odie |
Outrider, I agree. I had to take an original ratchet in to get a rebuild kit for it and he laughed and said this thing is 20 years old!! I said you're right, gimme my kit. He gave me the latest top of the line ratchet as the bottom of the line ratchet was nowhere near the quality of mine. Worked out goon in the long run but I have to agree the quality has went down over the past few years. | ||
| Geoffg |
I'm with Outrider and Odie--I bought a Craftsman ratchet and socket set when I was in high school, about 25 years ago. Just recently, the ratchet began to skip a bit; I took it back to Sears, and the salesman gave me a rebuild kit. He told me the new ratchets were not as good as the one I had, and showed them to me--I took the kit, and that set is still turning bolts today (although the plastic case is kinda rough). Great stuff, great warranty. | ||
| Frankie123456 |
another company is Kobalt, the one that lowes uses. I have used a few of their tools and have been very impressed with the quality, havent broken one yet, and I have tried. Also I have been buying more and more of the Home depot brand "Husky". I havent had any problems with their tools, and have been happy with their quality. Their screw drivers are great. Last summer I bought a screwdriver set from sears, and had a hell of a time keeping in good useable shape. After much agrivation i went and purchased a similiar set rom Husky (Home Depot), and think the quality is definately better. (my son frequently rummages through my tool box, and the Husky barand seem to tolerate an 8 year old boy better, and I have none of the quality issues from before. I went to sears to try and return the set, however I recieved a bunch of •••• about their warranty. I pretty much have moved away from sears brands, even craftsman. Check out the Husky brand, i like it better than the craftsman stuff, and Home depot is great with the warranty. Frankie | ||
| Outrider |
I think the major premise is you get what you pay for at the retail outlets (Snap-on, etc., excluded). The private label products at all the major hardware/home center chains are excellent quality. Imported tools supplied by companies like Stanley hardware are the one's to be wary of. Regardless of country of origin the higher ticket items will have a better feel, work better and last longer. I hate to admit it but the Chinese have really come a long way with hand and power tools. I have a two sets of American made Craftsman's. Mine from the early 1970's and my Dad's from the late 1930's. Both are still working just fine and his were used throughout WWII. Wonder what his are worth these day's? Any collectors out there? I try and buy the best quality tools for the basics, but for the disposable or seldom used ones, I favor Harbor Freight and it's competitors. They only handle Chinese tools, they buy direct and have a very low overhead. One last praise for Harbor Freight is that their merchandisers are fluent in Chinese and that gives them a leg up in negotiating quality and price. Not many, if any others go this extra step. Therefore, you get the best deal on the cheap stuff from them. Oh yeah, they were customers of mine as well. Not many in the hardware, tool and electrical industries I didn't sell and those were by choice. I liked getting paid for my shipments. | ||
| Odie |
As I get older I have strarted to go by one rule- you get what you pay for like outrider says and I'm learning to spend the extra now for something that will last forever vs. being cheap in the beginning..... | ||
| Odie |
As I get older I have started to go by one rule- you get what you pay for like outrider says and I'm learning to spend the extra now for something that will last forever vs. being cheap in the beginning..... | ||
| Leftcoastal |
Look for sales of "name brand" tools and get those instead of the Harbor Freight (Fright?) I thought that I could do OK with some of the Harbor freight stuff, bought a set of ball peen hammers. The first whack with EACH of the 3 hammers of the set and the handles broke off right at the head! Beware also that high quality tools can be hazardous to your health - If not wiped down before first use with a suitable disinfectant, you stand the chance of catching that common and seemingly incurable disease known as "TOOLITUS" - virtually all of the posters above are exhibiting various stages of this dreaded virus. This reminds me of the words of a famous philosopher: "OOOOOOOOOO--TOOOOLS!" H. Simpson AL | ||
| Outrider |
Dear Homer...Yep, you got that right. LMAO Sorry to hear about the handles, but wood is not usually something China does well unless they import it from the US. Even then, they cut back on the quality. The only time they use the good stuff is in their high end RTA (ready to assemble) furniture and that stuff comes from either Southeast Asia or Michigan and Ohio (Northern Red Oak which only comes from there). Guess I forgot to mention I was also in the bathroom furniture biz too. | ||
| V2win |
A Craftsman tool story. The year is 1966. My father is in the process of building the house my mother still lives in today. Im just out of high school. My dad's birthday is coming up so I go to Sears and buy him one of the new hammers with the steel handles in them. My dad uses it for one day and the handle starts to loosen up. So, I take it back to Sears for a replacement. I get an a__hole of a salesman who tells me that its not broken, just loose and he would not replace it. I take it home. Place it firmly in a vice and knock the crap out of it with a sledge hammer until I break the head into. I take it back to Sears. Same salesman. I hand him the two broken pieces without a word. He gives me a dirty look and hands me a new hammer. Working the system. | ||
| Captainkirk |
I use Snap-on, Mac and Craftsman on a daily basis at work. I've probably got 20 grand wrapped up in tools (including the box). Generally, for a tool you use DAILY (i.e. ratchets, screwdrivers, wrenches) you CAN'T PAY TOO MUCH for a high quality tool. For things like snap ring pliers, deep well sockets, etc that you use maybe once a month...well, Craftsman is just fine. For your home garage....just don't buy something that won't do the job you bought it for. My .02 cents  | ||
| Starter |
I'm of the opinion that it depends on the use as well. There is nothing that will ever replace a good set of screwdrivers. The cheap crap don't cut it. Try to go for the 6 sided sockets and not the 12s. I haven't had a problem yet on the Buell but many cars I've worked on have had some very ordinary fastners that have been eaten round by 12 points. I too have a set of 3rd generation ring spanners and these things are bullet proof. So never walk psat a yard sale selling really old stuff cause it is usually far superior in quality to anything available today. As for the majority of my tool collection it was purchased using the guidance of a friend from the industry. We went to a Tool superstore which had everything from your Snap-ons to cheap and nasty asian imported stuff and showed me what to look for. It's very interesting how many of the cheap tools are exactly the same as the expensive ones minus the brand name punched on them. I got a 1/2" drive socket set for a quarter of the price of the branded version and the best bit was it came in the same plastic case. | ||
| Boulderbiker |
So, I know many opinions have already been expressed, but hey I've got one too so here goes! NEVER buy cheap tools, Craftsman should be the very least, but do NOT go less. I cant tell you how much time and frustration has been caused by cheap tools. So far everyone has mentioned getting good tools so you dont break them, well how bout not getting cheap tools, cause their tolerances suck and you'll strip things because of it and and waste more time than the money saved was EVER worth. My policy has now become, that if I find a tool in my set that is less than satisfactory in quality, it and all its brothers go immediately to the dumpster, cause I've already wasted too much time because of their kind. Do yourself a favor and get nothing less than craftsman. |
