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Archive through June 18, 2004Prof_stack30 06-18-04  10:20 am
         

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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

HD Syn3 is so named since it is ok to use in engine, primary & trans. 3 places, hence the name.

As far as I know HD Syn3 is made from cow farts, ( I have read it's from Citgo, but I don't know, HD proprietary lubes are magic & not labeled for actual content ) but it works just fine In engine & primary/trans, I went to Syn3 at my 500 mile change. I used Castrol GTX 20-50 at my 200 mile change.
I believe the "don't use synth oil in break in" is a myth. Also the Egg came first, & can argue that issue with logic! I may be wrong.
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Dcmortalcoil
Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I did some checking (via telephone) with the lubrication engineer at Mobile (surprisingly, I was patched directly to their lubricant engineer). Here's what I found.

Mobile 1 Synthetic 75-90 was not specifically engineered for wet clutch application. That's the reason why they can't specifically recommend its use for transmission with wet clutch. Although it has additives to minimize gears from sticking at high meshing loads, however, it DOES NOT contain friction modifiers. So it can work with wet clutch application, although it may not be the most efficient fluid for it.

The main benefit of this product is what Brucelee's been preaching all along - better & smoother shifting.

Another benefit is that gear lube is designed to cause debris/solids to settle, as opposed to suspending them. The solids settle to the bottom of the case, and hopefully stay there or attach to the magnetic plug (maybe more magnets can be attached to the bottom of the case for more effective cleaning). Engine oil, on the other hand, is designed to suspend the particles so that they can be carry away and filtered out. Since there is no filter in the tranny, gear lube should theoretically do a better job of circulating a cleaner lube to the working parts.
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Prof_stack
Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dcmortalcoil, GREAT report, thanks! Mobil-1, good stuff.

Amsoil recommends to NOT use their 75w/90 gear oil in our bikes, but rather their 20w/50 v-twin lubricant. Perhaps Amsoil has friction modifiers in their gear oil? Who here knows?
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Brucelee
Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Very interesting point on how the lubricant in the trans needs to allow the dirt and shavings to drop to the bottom. Never thought of that.

Thanks!
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Starter
Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I too have been talking a fair bit to the guys at Mobil since posting. Firstly people need to relise that these guys are very well educated in lubricants and MARKETING. There is no way to trick the guys at the other end of the phone into giving info they doesn't want to reveal, nor will they bad mouth a competitor's product. As for H-D brand oil, I was told that H-D doesn't realease their oil specifications to the market. This way Mobil is unable to test their lubricant for certification under the H-D specs. The only thing they were able to tell me was that Mobil 1 when tested against the Syn3 performed better in all the standard testing criteria.

Also the Mobil 1 75W-90 in the bike bottle is the same as the normal Mobil 1 75W-90.
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Bigbird
Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Interesting info, 984_cc. You have balls. I share many of your views about synthetic oil and break in, and have been told many of the same things while in factory training for various engine manufacturers. However the last time I answered a post with that information I was promptly burned at the stake by a couple of individuals here who shall remain nameless. I decided it was better to let them run around with their misinformation and risk screwing up their own bikes than it was to keep arguing with them about the things they may have been doing wrong. You can't save the world, ya know?

Good luck!
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Brucelee
Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"and have been told many of the same things while in factory training for various engine manufacturers".

You are RIGHT! The manufacturers WANT us to ruin out engines by not breaking them in correctly. They benefit from this HOW????????????????



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Odie
Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have a good article about oils and their properties that is very recent. I have to find it. I will find it tomorrow and extract the good stuff and let ya'll know. It had H-D oil tested as well....(not that I use it)
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Bigbird
Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Take it up with 984_cc there, spanky. I'm not getting into it all again. Re-read his posts. The answers to your questions are there. Pay particularly close attention to the breakdown of the types of synthetic oils, what is really a synthetic, and what is actually a blend. After that you can f_ck up your bike any way you want to.
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Charlieboy6649
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thank you ALL for you input. I kinda figured 75-90 was OK. Especially with how many here run it with no ill effect and better performance. It gets up to 125 degrees here in Yuma, so a heavier oil would make sense anyway...
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Brucelee
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"It gets up to 125 degrees here in Yuma, so a heavier oil would make sense anyway..."

You have that right! Good luck!
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Prof_stack
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

75W/90 in gear oil specs is roughly equivalent to 20W/50 in engine oil specs. Its more about what is in the oil for its intended use.
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984_cc
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I hear ya' Bigbird. Thanks. One thing to point out about the heavyweight trans oil to all ya'll- The thicker the oil, the more power it takes. My old Kawasaki H2 uses ATF (automatic transmission fluid) in it's transmission. Very thin fluid indeed. That is what they recommended. I noticed while changing my XB's trans fluid that it seemed pretty thin and had a smell almost like ATF. Why does H-D have a special fluid for the Sportsters? It might be interesting to see why they recommend this thin stuff. BTW- I am aware of the differences in the Sportster engine, so no need to point that out to me.
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984_cc
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Brucelee- The engineer would take pride to know his engine design could last forever. The 'Top Dogs' in the business don't want your vehicle to last forever. They want you to buy a new one eventually.
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Brucelee
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Every car produced in the factory in Stuttgart gets its first oil from Mobil 1. And that means that all our cars and engines are developed with that product."
– Herbert Ampferer, Director,
Porsche Motorsports

"Mobil 1 is the only oil we use for our engines as the first filling. And then we put the sticker in the engine compartment just to make sure that people know what's in their engines."
– Domingos Piedade, Managing Director,
Mercedes-Benz AMG

"Based upon the results we saw several years ago in endurance racing with Team Shelby, we felt Mobil 1 could do the job in the Viper, Dodge's highest-performance sports car."
– Charlie Brown III, Viper Engine Supervisor,
DaimlerChrysler
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Sshbsn
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Charlie Brown III, Viper Engine Supervisor???
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Zeek
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 07:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Gear oils and motor oils use a different scale for viscosity ratings. I have a book at work I will see if I can find it and scan in the chart to post here. It is a real eye opener when you think all of these viscosity ratings use the same scale. 80W-90 gear oil is about the same as a 10W40 motor oil if I remember correctly.

Zeek
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Xb9er
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Gear Viscosity vs. Crank Viscosity

I hate oil threads!

Mike.
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Brucelee
Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Just to keep this from dying, has anyone tried Mobil 1 75-140 in the trans? If so, your results?

Thanks

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Xb9er
Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I know some folks tried Redline Shockproof gear oils. Heavy is 75W-250 and Lightweight is 75W-140, with additives (suspended solids!) included. I haven't come across anyone using the Mobil 1.

It doesn't seem like it would be a good idea to use it unless the application called for something like a Shockproof Heavy oil. For instance in extremely hot conditions with an old trans that's worn out, maybe. Not sure, just getting this from stuff I've read on the internet.

Mike.
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