| Author | Message | ||
     Dhays1775 |
have a question for all: what are the thoughts on force headers? i really like the slow bends and equal length design. if i were to get the exhaust, i wouldn't use the megaphone with it though. how hard would it be to make the drummer i currently have work? i can do the welding myself, if it's needed. any thoughts or opinions? thanks all! | ||
| Kdogshirow |
I had a Force pipe on my 00 Buell M2 , and it really made the power . It was the pipe that Nallin Racing said made the most horse power with their 1250cc big bore kit , and thats what I had . It was very , very loud , even with the baffle in it . But man , could you feel the difference . I think the header is a very good stepped design , and I am pretty sure you could bolt a Drummer or other pipe to it with very little modification . I think it would be a good set up . I would like to find a used one and do it myself .  | ||
| Dhays1775 |
sweet. i plan on installing a 1250 kit with stage two heads. i think i can get the exhaust system and use just the headers. i can sell the megaphone no problem. i just wanna keep the drummer so i can keep the back pressure and torque that comes with it. plus the entire system is cheaper than just equal length headers from our sponsors. and by cheaper, i mean by half. if i have to get my headers elsewhere, no big deal. i was just trying to see what the general consensus was on these headers. | ||
| Iman501 |
Kdogshirow is right, my buddy who rides an X1 has a force pipe, with the "megaphone" and holy hell is it loud!, it does have a noticeable difference between the force exhaust set up, and the stock, i've ridden his X1 with both! | ||
| Whitetrashxb |
i think there has been discussion of the XB Force not performing as well as the tuber Force, possibly due to loss of back pressure? unless the engine is modded, fwiw.... | ||
| D_adams |
David -- one thing I failed to mention the other day is, I will probably modify a stock set of xb12 headers before I try making a full set. It's on my list of many things to try out. I need to set up some jigs to hold parts in place where I want them. If I can sort out how I want it done, modifying stock headers would be much cheaper than building them from scratch. | ||
| Dhays1775 |
thanks dean. i'm open to suggestions still. like i said, i plan to keep the drummer. i was just wondering what i might have to do to not use the megaphone. and as far as modified stock headers, i'm willing if you're able.  | ||
| 1_mike |
1. Equal length...!? Been proven over and over, 3 to 4 inches is considered equal in this case. After all...this IS the collectors main duty! Are you looking for every last little hp ? There's MANY other better places to look for that. 2. The megaphone design works. Why get rid of something...that is already there...and works. Makes no sense. Mike | ||
| D_adams |
The megaphone design is pretty much _the_ loudest on the planet. I don't have the exact measurements, although I'm sure someone here does, but the rear header is definitely more than 3 inches longer than the front. I've heard the same thing over and over "You're doing it all wrong" and who knows, they might be right. But, I have a tendency to go my own way most of the time and I do love to tinker and play. Even my dad called me "hard-headed & impossible" at times. I still don't know why.  It doesn't matter if I can or can't improve on the design (probably not) but I'm going to do it anyway. He (David) was looking for a way to retain his Drummer muffler and keep that particular sound level, but try different headers. Nobody really offers it at a reasonable price. The Free spirits pipe runs maybe $1k just for the headers alone, depending on the exchange rate at the time you go to buy it. If I can do it cheaper and get the same or better results, well, I guess I'll be making a few. Modifying a stock set of headers is the cheapest route to accomplish that if I can get it to work. | ||
| Kdogshirow |
Equal length/stepped Force or Keda Header + Drummer = Best of Both Worlds . Minuses ? It wont blow your eardrums out ? D_adams - an affordable Header made from the stock one is a great idea , cut out the middle and add length to the primary tubes . Stepped would be nice also . | ||
| Kdogshirow |
Here is a very good link on Header design for V-Twin Engines , it talks about length , stepped etc. for max HP . Check it out http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/calc_exhaustlen gth.htm | ||
| Glitch |
The header will work. Be warned though, back when Force was the only header you could get for an XB, it was found to be very lightweight tubing. I've personally seen three sets of Force XB headers break at the O2 sensor. One blew completely out. Don't know if the issue was ever taken care of. The megaphone is loud! I took one of the megaphones and put it on my bike with the stock headers. Just as loud! Expect everyone in a 5 mile radius to know you're going out for a ride. | ||
| D_adams |
That's the whole point of David wanting to re-use the Drummer shell I think. Megaphone canisters are almost always overly loud. Another perfect example of that is the D&D pipe for the 1125's. My straight through RT-3 isn't as loud, even though it's shorter and it's literally a straight through open hole. I've heard the D&D with fresh packing and one that had it blown out completely and both were definitely louder than anything I've ever made. | ||
| Dhays1775 |
you hit the nail on the head dean. i like to do a bit of cruising, as well as hit the curves. but i don't want to have to take a break because my ears are bleeding through the ear plugs. was was just looking for a decent compromise between power and noise. i love to be heard, but i don't want to go deaf either. the newer style force headers have spring joints to help get rid of the pressures created but the weight and exhaust gas pulses/flexing. i know the cheapest route is to leave it stock, but that isn't any fun. i know the straight through design usually has more top end power, but loses low and/or mid range torque as a result of the loss of back pressure. i would like to find a happy medium if possible. | ||
| Glitch |
Drummer with your choice of header | ||
| D_adams |
Well, I'd prefer to sell my own setup (my headers and muffler) but I will try to do it in a fashion that works with existing pipes. I will also eventually try making the entire thing using my own dimensions and it will probably not match up to anyone else's designs. However, the plan is power production, so whatever it takes to get there, that's the route I'm planning on going. I have ideas in my head, I just need to get them out and into some stainless tubing. | ||
| Albert666 |
the only problem with the header design link is it tells you nothing about the steps, i finished this grasstrack outfit today, its been proven to work, it has a short tapered step, some people will argue about abrupt steps being better whereas people like arrow use long tapers, the system is designed to work either linking pipes 1&2 3&4 or 1&4 2&3 depending on the track and quite often the rider, there is so much science and calculations in exhaust design these days sometimes you just gotta build someting and try it. an example, this is true, cosworth employees spent many many hours designing a race/dyno manifold for the ford duratec engine, they gave the fabricator the desired pipe dia which was 1 7/8", he came back saying all he could find was 2", designer says oh well just use that, it didn't work, they came to us and we found 30 more bhp  (Message edited by albert666 on January 21, 2011) (Message edited by albert666 on January 21, 2011) | ||
| Albert666 |
  (Message edited by albert666 on January 21, 2011) | ||
| Dhays1775 |
has there been a comparison of stock versus after market headers? i haven't seen anything. those are some very nice looking headers alan. it may be a lost cause for some, but i love to know stuff. the more info i have the happier i am! | ||
| Kdogshirow |
God thats nice work Albert666 ! Those tapered steps are amazing . Your stuff puts the others to shame . That link was the only thing I could find on the net about V twin header design , you are right , it is a science all to its self . I dont think half the people understand what a stepped header is . |
