| Author | Message | ||
     Geoffg |
OK, just to put this out there--why Buell? I'm shopping around for a new bike. I've got a fair bit of experience, but only with smaller displacement UJM's. I've narrowed it down to: New SV650S--the "sensible" choice, inexpensive, reliable, and easiest to own insurance-wise (local insurance breaks at 750/751cc). Had lots of recommendations. I have yet to ride one. Used 96 Ducati Monster 900--my buddy may be selling (we're trying to talk him out of it, but if he's gonna sell...). I've ridden it, and it's a great bike, comfy seating position, nice L-twin power, great sound from high carbon-fiber cans. Cons are maintenance (nearest dealer is 8 hours away) and lack of any fairing or tach--and of course, we'd prefer he NOT sell it (he's buying a sailboat...we're 8 hours from the coast...) New Buell XB9R--the most expensive, least easily insured, and least practical bike--but I've ridden it (XB9R, 9S, and 12R) and it simply turns my crank. Love the size--I'm short, and find many bikes to be too "stretched out" in the cockpit. My emphasis is on backroad dayrides (I live in the mountains, lots of twisty highways 'round here)--I generally preach that there's a lot more than horsepower to going fast, and have proven it by leading some high-zoot sportbikers on my early 80's UJM (generates a whopping 54 HP). I find I'm just as enamoured of the 9R as the 12--how much real reason is there to get the bigger one? (next insurance breakpoint here is 1150/1151 cc). Also, is there any real reason to go 2004 over 03? (I've found a white 03 I'm looking at). One con of the Buells is that dealer service thing again--nearest dealer is 3 1/2 hours, the one I'd most likely deal with is 6... On the other hand, I'm a pretty good mechanic. Anyway, just wanted to get some perspectives from some folks who actually OWN Buells. I get a lot of folks telling me to avoid Buell--not enough power, unreliable, odd handling, etc.--but most of this is hearsay. I don't know anyone who actually owns one. | ||
| Zip |
It sounds to me that you have already decided on the BEULL and are looking for a good reason to tell your friends to go .... in their hats. and you wouldn't be wrong !!!  | ||
| Daves |
Just face it, you want the Buell. Get the Buell! Ride to the edge! Dave daves@h-dappleton.com | ||
| Gonen60 |
welcome to...  | ||
| Stealthxb |
Geoffg The Buell will make the average rider better. And it was designed specifically for the type of riding you are interested in! The SV is a great bike, but belongs on a track IMHO. Ducatis are amazing machines too, but the maintenance costs are ridiculous. If you are interested in doing your own maintenance, the air-cooled V-Twin Buell will be your best bet. Both 9’s and 12’s have plenty of power. Can we say torque? Don’t let HP numbers fool you, unless you are all about going 180MPH in a straight line. The reliability of the XB series has been amazing so far. Very few major problems have been uncovered by the members of this board. And the handling is outstanding, I have never ridden a more responsive machine. Buells are smarter, quicker, stronger and I promise you will not find another machine that provides more smiles per mile. | ||
| Geoffg |
Thanks, guys--yeah, I'm in the "justification" stage. I want that Buell, but dammit it seems that everywhere I turn I see bad press. "An oxymoron powered by an anachronism," according to one reviewer. As a mechanical engineer, I understand that the basic design of the Buell engine is not really cutting-edge--but on the other hand I think the rest of the bike is! I also feel, as someone said, it is designed for the way I ride (I like to keep my momentum through the corners, but am not at all interested in going insane speeds in a straight line). I love the torque--note all the bikes I mentioned are torquey V-twins, although all my experience has been revvy little screamers. I guess I just gotta be strong, and go my own way (I usually do, anyway)--nevermind what the peanut gallery says. I appreciate your feedback, guys--just need a little help with the ol' rationalization process, from guys who don't roll their eyes when I mention the name "Buell." | ||
| Buellgator |
Just had another guy over at another board ask a very similar question. The following are reasons that I gave for the XB over a Duc: If I can I'd like to give you some of the advantages of the XB over the Duc. 1. Parts-Parts for the XB are both easier and cheaper to come by. One example is tranny fluid. For a bottle of regular tranny fluid for the XB $4.00(even the synthetic is only $8.00) the Duc is $17.00 for their OEM fluid. 2. Maintenance-Ducs are tough to work on. The XB doesn't have near the maintenance costs of a Ducati. Valve adjustments on a Duc can run you in upwards of $900. The XB has self adjusting valves and it's most expensive service is $300. I think the Ducs need valve adjustments every 6-10K miles the expensive service on the XB is every 10K miles. Also the belt is easier to maintain than the chain and will last longer. The new belts have 25K mile service intervals a chain may last 10K if you're lucky and take real good care of it. 3. Dealers-There are HD/Buell dealers all over the United States. I know where I'm at my closest Duc dealer is 2 hours away. 4. Bodywork-Crashing is not a question of if, but when. When it does happen paintwork on a Ducati(on anything really) is expensive to replace. The surlyn bodywork on an XB is inexpensive. Also if the damage isn't horrible(and I mean torn apart ) the surlyn can be buffed out to look like new. I've seen guys with pretty serious damage to their bodywork and the next time I saw the bike I couldn't even tell that it had been down. | ||
| Smitty |
Ride what you feel is good. If you are a racer competing with 150HP inline 4s this might not be what you’re looking for. But although the motor is "not cutting edge" according to the press. Remember most of those guys ride on the track. The Buells are for the real world. Hydraulic lifters (no adjustments) air-cooled belt drive (no adjustments) and the adaptation of a fuel injection system that works great no enricher or fast idle. Just push the starter and the system takes care of the rest. It works so well that it doesn’t need a catilic converter like the completion to meet emissions. Remember the quote (not cutting edge)? I think it is better suited for riding in the real world. Enjoy your quest read and enjoy the fellowship and the info located on these boards. Good luck Tim | ||
| Dbensavage |
The Buell is an excellent choice for the type of riding you want to do. I have owned the 9R and moved up to the 12R. The 12 has a lot more low end torque and a flatter power band than the 9. As far as bad press, I think all of the major magazines are just stuck on Jap Bikes and can't or won't give these bikes and unbiased review. I love my Buell so who cares what anyone else says. All my friends have Jap Bikes and all said "don't buy a Buell", but after I got it, they have all rode it and now have some respect for it. Its not as fast in a straight line as the jap bikes but I can give them a run for the money when where riding up in the mountains on twisty roads. So anyway BUY A BUELL, You'll Love it !!!!  | ||
| José_quiñones |
Try to demo ride the SV, but it sounds like you really want the Buell. As mentioned, the maintenance is pretty simple with the exception of having to go to the dealer for Fuel Injection issues. The new SV has the same isssue, but there are more aftermarket options available for Suzuki FI tuning (Teka, Techillusion, Powercommander, etc) than the Buell FI (Buell Race ECM, Power Commander, Techillusion) at the moment. The SV is pretty simple to maintain, you can do most everything with only a few tools. Valve checks are pretty easy and they rarely require adjustment. With either bike, a service manual should be your first accessory purchase. You will need to upgrade the Suspension on the SV. For Do It Yourself types, it's a fun project to revalve/respring the forks and install a new shock, it improves the handling greatly. The XB already comes with very good suspension which is very sensitive and can be dialed in perfectly to your tastes if you have the time/patience to fiddle with it. There are so many SV's ending up as race bikes that aftermarket support for the SV is greater than the XB's at the moment. The SV would be the practical choice, the Buell the emotional choice. | ||
| Fullpower |
geo: i am having a lot of fun with my xb12. i highly recommend it. also welcome to the badweb....dean | ||
| Buggie |
you don't turn heads the the others your looking at but you will sure turn heads on the XB Especially the guy on the duc honda suzuki or whatever as you pass him on the inside of a switchback on your wall to Kamloops plus when you buy the Buell you become a member of a very cool club case in point BRAG(buell riders adventure group) which has a rally the first week of june Rippin'up the Rockies buellers from all over converge to go ride the mountains And just to let you know deeleys in vancouver has a used xb9s and xb9r just waiting for you  Rippin' up the Prairies | ||
| Unibear12r |
"An oxymoron powered by an anachronism," describes most of the reviewers | ||
| Geoffg |
Hey, Buggie--you know about Kamloops? I'm impressed. BTW, I looked at the TD Vancouver website--but I'd rather deal with Kamloops if I can. The Cranbrook dealership does not impress (although they carry Suzuki's, too). You ever ride out this way? (West Kootenays) We got some OK roads here  Part of my dilemma is that, as Jose Q says, the Buell is an emotional choice--the SV would be just so much more practical. Why is it so much more clunky? Now, a few questions. First off, I notice the 04's have a heftier final drive belt--anything to worry about, or was this spec'd for the XB12 and simply carried over to the XB9 for parts conformity? Secondly, I was told (at the dealership) that the Buells did not handle road rash well--they said the frame aluminum would wear through and no longer hold fuel, and that would total the bike. Seeing as I've seen some XB's that have been on the track and have scars, this doesn't ring true--anybody got any ideas? Oh, BTW, keep the encouragement coming--I've just gotta get some financial stuff together and convince my wife, and...and...hmmm, anybody got any advice on how I can make the Buell attractive to her emotions? (actually, she is currently learning to ride--plan is, I'll buy new and she gets my old Seca). | ||
| M1combat |
To me the Buell was the emotional and practical choice. It handles excellently, it gets great gas mileage, parts are inexpensive (broken front brake lever and right peg was about $17), the paint doesn't get scratched, it has a steel braided brake line stock, it DOESN'T do 185mph (yes, I would have gotten myself in LOTS of trouble), it still gets to 110 quite quickly, it passes FUTURE California emission standards w/o a cat or secondary air injection. On the emotional side... It looks really cool, it sounds even better, cute redheads smile at me, it's American made, the gold pipes, the cool brake (that works VERY well as far as I know), I'm a fan of technology, the torque, the way you can tell that people were "thinking" when they designed every little part and system. The EFI issue Jose refers to is that of the TPS. I have to admit that one of the reasons I like the Buell is because I can work on it relatively easily... very easily if I had a collection of the specialty tools needed. The TPS at this point can only be reset by an HD dealer's tech using their Digital Technician. There have been a couple (and I mean a couple) people on this board who have needed multiple resets. Maybe bad ECM's, maybe incorrect technique. The normal course of maintenance calls for TPS resets every 10K miles I believe and are generally included in the price of the service (as I recall). If it needs to happen more than that I've mostly heard the price is 30 minutes labor. I haven't had any trouble with mine at all (4500 miles) and I don't expect to. In the strictest sense, it is not a "fuel injection issue". It's a "principal" issue. There's something about my Buell that IF it gets out of whack I can't fix it myself. It's very rare that the ECM looses the calibration for the throttle position sensor but it can happen. After having said all that... There should be third party software released at some point that will make this a moot issue. | ||
| M1combat |
The drive belt is somewhat finicky when installed or removed. If twisted or folded too tight backwards (I think min. diameter is 10"  the belt will be weakened and can break. Once it is installed properly it seems to work very well. | ||
| Unibear12r |
Your right, not true! There are some pics here somewhere of one or two XBs that went down hard on the fuel tank part & no leaks. I like the engine design - advanced only where it needs to be and strong but simple. edited by unibear12r on May 21, 2004 | ||
| Blake |
Damn anachronistic engine getting 65 mpg and putting out 103 BHP, never needing valve adjustments, or throttle body synchronization, or engine coolant. Not to mention the active thermostatically controlled forced air ducted cooling system or the closed loop dual mode DDFI fuel injection system. GeoffG, It has become painfully obvious to us all that the squids and scammers on the take at Motorcyclist magazine hate Buell. Try www.motorcycle.com or the reviews in Road Racing World and Motorcycle Technology (RRW). RRW loves the Buells, they even won a championship on and XB9R competing in FUSA national Endurance last year. Cycle World had some very good things to say about the new Buells too. Yes, the '04's have a new improved final belt drive. The '03s are okay, but susceptible to damage through mishandling; the '04 version is more robust with a courser pitch and has a longer service life. You can upgrade an '03 to the '04 belt drive but the price for parts is somewhere upwards of $400 if I recall correctly. If finances are an issue, spend some time looking for a used model. The TPS does not need to be reset every 10K miles. It gets recalibrated at the 1K service to account for any wearing-in of the throttle mechanism and that's it. If you are mechanically adept, you will enjoy the Buell. Don't let conventional wisdom fool you, the XB has one of the most advanced engines on the market.. We need some more logical thinking fun loving ME's around here. Welcome and let us know when you pull the trigger. Blake | ||
| M1combat |
As far as road rash... It "seems" that the frame can take a decent sized dent and a bit of road rash and still be used (after checking for straightness of course). There is a very sturdy looking brace on the top of the frame that would seem to keep the important parts pretty well lined up. I have heard of an XB sliding a ways down a racetrack and surviving (well, the frame survived is all I know). | ||
| Imonabuss |
Yeah, and if you ever want to really discuss reliability, talk to the folks who are switching fron racing SVs to racing XBs in FUSA Thunderbike, because the Buell's are more reliable when they are run hard. That is a real fact. There are plenty of frame protectors out there for the XBs, but they certainly hold up well when crashed even if you don't have those on (although the frame gets ugly from scratches). There aren't fuel tank protectors out there for bikes with conventional fuel tanks, which get damaged to the point of leaking far more often than Buell ones. | ||
| Xbduck |
Geoffg, Go with your heart, life is to short to say,"What if...". P.S. be prepared for a serious case of perma-grin. | ||
| Leeaw |
I have a 9R and my wife just got an SV650 two weeks ago. Although it is a nice bike and she loves it, it is just not up to par with the Buell. Not nearly as much soul but fun to ride anyway. Suspension is kinda lacking and I don't feel like I am one with the machine when riding the SV. It is cheaper on insurance than the Buell though. | ||
| Glitch |
Geoffg, I was doing the same thing last year. I wish it had been earlier. Before I bought mine, I thought about Buell, but never took the plunge. I regret that. Ever since I bought the XB, I've ridden more than ever. There's three things that I've found negative about my decision. 1) Digital Technician, I want one but can't have one. 2) Keep trying to figure out how to get my hands on another Buell (S1W). 3) I keep taking the long way, everywhere I go. If you ask me I'll say get the Buell. A bike has never spoken to me the way this one does. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I know a few people that have the SV-650's... I have ridden several. Inevitably, they say it is a great bike, handles good, good power, good reliabilty... they talk about the SV they own for 30 seconds, then go on to talk about the next bike they are going to get that they really want for the next 10 minutes. That says something important to me. The SV really is a great bike, but I yet to hear anyone really bonding with the thing at an emotional level. It's rare to see people NOT bonding with their Buells at an emotional level. I think thats why you see such passion here... you may love it, you may hate it, but you are unlikely to remain indifferent. I have a 2000 cyclone. It has had... well... just about every problem these things can have. In spite of this, I would not trade it for the world. The handling... the responsiveness... the sound and feel of the engine... the character... I would not trade it for the world, and am SOOOO happy I bought it over the SV-650 I was looking at, that no doubt would have worked fine and ran flawlessly . I LOVE my cyclone. I test road an XB yesterday. Everything about my Cyclone (which is fantastic) is done better on the XB... It boggles my mind, and I know I will have some sort of XBxS before long. I can't afford it, don't need it, can't justify it, can't bring my self to sell the Cyclone. No reason to buy it, should not get it. Really. No. No. Quit it. Won't get one. Leave me alone. (I give myself about 18 months before a xb9s sits in my garage). Motorcycling is at it's heart an emotional experience, otherwise we would all be driving tercels. If you can find a bike that has an emotional draw for you, count your blessings, THATS the bike you want to get. | ||
| Austinrider |
Heres my experience. I went down at the track (low sided). I have the carbon fiber frame sliders(gas tank cover) and they held up extremely well. Usually in a crash like that the handlebar slams into the tank and gives it a dimple/dent. With the frame sliders, there was no issue, they held up great. I can still see my bike sliding on its side down the track with me behind it. At a recent "Buell Track Day" here in Texas, we had to fill slots with Jap bikes to make it happen. A friend of mine who races and SV (He is #10 in the expert class, and a very talented rider) got to test ride an XB12S. He came back with a humongous grin on his face and could not stop talking about the bike. I have yet to ride and SV, and when I bought the Buell it was a bike I was considering. I've never regretted getting my Buell. | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
Geoffg: I'm in the exact situation you are, so I appreciate you starting this discussion. I'm riding a 1999 Suzuki Bandit (600cc four, steel frame, not very aggressive seating) that I've had for 4 years. I want something better handling and less whiny. I figured V-twin is the answer so I started looking. Right now I've got it narrowed down the the XB9R and SV650S for the same reasons, XB=awesome and SV=fun and cheap. Ducati's just don't quite do it for me and the maintenance is drag. I did test ride the XB9R and XB12R recently at a HD demo day, that pretty much sealed the deal... after I rode the 12 on which the suspension must have been set better for my weight, because the 9 drove like a pig. After riding each for 20min (following along on a test ride) I was amazed how comfortable the seating was I was in love, absolutely amazed at how well the body meshes with the bike to become one. When I got back on my bike it felt like the biggest POS around, and I like my bike! Still no chance to actually ride the SV, a purchase of that will be strictly for economic reasons. It would be an upgrade from the bandit but not as much as the Buell (suspension, aesthetics, soul). The 2003 has EFI and I've seem them for as low as $4500. Experienced XB owners: So some questions about acquiring a Buell. A. 2002 vs. 2003, Is there a difference? Sometimes I see talk about 2002 XB's but not much, are they actually 2003's? If looking for lowest price, is it safe to go with a 2002 or better to get something after they got some of the kinks worked out? B. I've been watching local ads, cycletrader, eBay, and anywhere I can find listings on these bikes. There aren't many, and prices seem to go from $6000 to $9000 for "good condition" 2003 XB9R's. That's quite a range, and I've heard from many people that Buell's have bad resale value. I'd like to take advantage of that so that I can actually afford one. The local dealer has a 2003 race kitted one for $9999, but if I get a good deal on one somewhere else will they be happy to service it? From other posts on this board it seems that HD dealers can be picky about stuff like that, the whole "relationship" thing. I've never had to deal with dealers before except to buy parts for Kawi, Honda, and Suzuki's I've had. C. The XB9R I rode was fine but I was not as impressed with the power as I hoped to be. It seemed weak in the driving range, 3000-4000RPM and the power was all up high. The 12 was insanely fun, especially at low revs, if money were no object I would have taken it home with me! Everyone has told me you need the race kit on the 9, so if I get a used one without it, how hard is it to install. Buell says $620 on their website, the dealer says $1000 installed. Is this something the average guy can do in their garage in a day? Or does it require special tools because of the EFI and TPS and all those things I've read about? I already know that if I get an SV it will be more fun but I will probably only keep it for a few years until I can afford a Buell (by that time could probably get a used XB12R!). I just don't want to spend more on the Buell and not be totally happy. Thanks, ColdWeatherRider | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
Sorry it got so long, but one more quick question. The gauges on the 9R are really dorky and hard to read. The gauges on the 12R are normal looking. Is it possible to get the background plates from the 12 and put them on the 9. Not a big deal but if I get another bike I plan on having it for a long time. I just don't want to squint to read that stupid font for years to come! (Yes, I realize I'm being very picky here) | ||
| Easyflier |
The 9 and the 12 are different but each has its strengths and the 9 can be found used with low miles for relatively cheap. I own a 9R and while I considered a 12 last year I'm glad that I stuck with the 9. I like the extra 800rpm to redline and I plan to increase the displacement to at least 1200cc some day. You might want to inquire about cost of insurance too, unfortunately that is rapidly becoming a deciding factor for a lot of riders. Oh yeah, over 16,000 miles now and still love it every time I get on it.  | ||
| Easyflier |
You'd have to buy the whole cluster, you can't just change the back plates. | ||
| Xb9er |
A. The first XB9R's were all 2003 model year bikes (VIN # shows this) but earliest ones, like mine were, manufactured in 2002. B. If the BadWeb is any indication, XB owners tend to hold on to their XB's so there may not be many used ones out there. I bought my bike from a dealer I found out later was not Buell-friendly. Found current Buell-friendly dealership which does excellent work and cares about Buell customers. You don't need to stick with the dealer you buy the bike from. C. About $100 for an XB12 airbox and a K&N filter will make a significant improvement in that rpm range. You can do the race kit install yourself, but currently, only dealers can reset the TPS, when required. Another option is the Drummer muffler. Mike. edited by xb9er on May 21, 2004 |
