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Archive through May 19, 2004420at145mph30 1 05-19-04  08:26 pm
         

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Wyckedflesh
Posted on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
420, what your not reading in the words as spelled out to you is that sure you can add the pigment to the resin or the clear, but it won't have the same effect as the stuff Roc uses. It won't look the same. It will look like painted plastic, you won't see the carbonfibre weave after you pigment the resin or clear. What Roc is using is a carbonfibre sheet with a colored Kevler thread woven in. That is what gives it the color through the clear resin and clearcoat finish, those strands of colored kevlar. If all you want is the look and not the weight savings fo the CF then find yourself a really good painter who can "hand paint" the CF look. But expect to pay as much for the paintwork as you would buying it through Roc : D
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Stealthxb
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I spoke with my buddy that does fiberglass fabrication today and he gave me the green light for trying this out if ya'll are serious about it.

I just bought the new bike so I don't have anything to bring to the table but a will to give it my best. I will be more that happy to put some effort into this if a few of ya'll really want to make it happen. Torqer already offered some parts, so if we can come up with a full set of bodywork and someone willing to foot the materials I will give it a shot.

This guys family has been in the fiberglass business for a while and he is manufacturing aftermarket 350Z parts now, so they know what they are doing. Though I can't say its a sure bet, I will keep the cards on the table.
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 12:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
but who gets to KEEP the parts?
heh ill pay for ALL the material if i get to keep a set
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Stealthxb
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 12:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
If it is successful, we can work out a deal that everyone who goes in can get a set.

If not, you can keep the junk!
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 12:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
how many yards u think would be needed for one complete set
belt gaurds covers huggers everything?
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Stealthxb
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 12:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
At this point and time, I have no idea.
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
count me in for some material
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Stealth, take some pics of the bike to him and he can probably estimate how much material we will need (at least a ballpark). After that we'll see what we can do. We'll maybe get ten people together and we'll buy the material. We'll al pitch in enough to make an extra set if you can get the work done.

What does your guy need for whatever he needs to do or whatever equipment you'll be using?

I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
the stuff on that link is only .009 thick need a few layers ud think
and to think yall wanted me gone
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I was looking at that... I wonder how many layers are generally used?

I took my rear section off the other day and I think it might be a good idea to re-inforce certain areas, namely just under the sides of the seat. The aftermarket 350Z parts guy should be able to offer some good pointers on construction.
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 02:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
eyes on the prize
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
LOL
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
StealthXB,
You have email.

All,
Both Roc and American Sport Bike have offered to provide the requested bodywork. Those who are interested are requested to go through either of those suppliers. If you find enough interested customers for this stuff, they will be glad to give you a reduced price quote.
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
so is this basicly a seace and desist order that we cant go about making our own?
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Of course they have Blake... at about $2K? I'm not rich. I couldn't even afford $1K. Maybe $500 and that would be after a few months of saving money.

Does anyone know if it's possible to make molds from my own bodywork w/o destroying my bodywork?

Is that a taboo question?
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Yeah, I just checked Blake... I can't even begin to afford their prices. If I could put some sweat equity into them maybe I could.

What if we buy the fabric from American Sport Bike (Do they sell it)? Then can we discuss this on this site?
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Davefl
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
You can use your bodywork to make the molds, just use loads of mold release and don't encase your parts with fiberglass. The mold that you will most likely come up with will be ok for one or two parts but will not be good for a run of them.
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Sounds perfect. Looks like I need to do some research on fabricating carbon fiber parts : ).
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Roc
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
420 - "well they do have more than 1 set obviously with the colors on the auction"

They are the same exact pieces, unless my good friend, partner, and translator is not telling me the truth. Obviously I have more than one set.

edited by roc on May 20, 2004

edited by roc on May 20, 2004
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Roc
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
blue
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Roc
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
red
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
How much lighter do you suppose the CF parts are Roc?
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Also, what do you charge for the setup with only the lower portion of the spoiler, no front pulley cover and no heel guards?

If you can make them, what about the pushrod covers?
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
What about an enlarged right side air duct?
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Roc
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
All depends on how you guy make them.

I bet the American Sport Bike stuff is 1/3 the stock bodyworks weight, maybe less. But if you are thinking about doing that you should price out an autoclave.

Stealthxb - Before your benevolent friend volunteers his time let him know that there is a significant amount of reverse tabbing involved with the pieces.
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Roc
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Enlarged air duct - no way I am going to second guess Buell's engineering.

I didn't see much of a market for the pushrod covers, but great potential for leaking.

Belt and pulley guards are tuff parts to make. I like the stock heel guards so I didn't pursue them, they should be very easy though.

Price? Other than what I've already posted I don't know.

I have had a hard time finding work and this was an attempt to do something that I really would enjoy doing, which would not require me to move. It didn't work out and I have tried to forget about it, but the auction thread kind of brought it back to me.



edited by roc on May 20, 2004
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Roc
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
StealthXB - Have your friend consider liability too. If he is in the business he is probably already aware.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
M1,
If you were to pool all interested parties as Mr. StealthXB is proposing, American Sport Bike would likely lower their price accordingly. I'll not argue the issue any more. You apparently do not appreciate the amount of work and expertise that goes into make such moulds and parts; $2,000+ is a damn bargain for a one-off custom set of bodywork. I know what I'm talking about. There is a LOT of labor required to create the mould AND the parts themselves and there is a LOT of expertise that goes into producing a quality finished part. It ain't easy. If it were, everyone would be doing it.
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Roc
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Blake - you are a kind man. I was going to let them find that out on their own.
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 07:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
As a matter of fact I DO appreciate the amount of work and expertise involved in making one off body work (keep in mind I'm a real race fan), I just can't AFFORD it. I didn't say the price wasn't fair. What I said was that maybe I could put some sweat equity into it and do it myself. I obviously wouldn't end up with the high level of quality that American Sport Bike could give me but I can't afford to buy from them. Would I like to buy a set of body work from American Sport Bike??? You bet your •••. I can't though. I can't afford to.

Also, in case you were wondering, I appreciate VERY MUCH the support that American Sport Bike gives to this website. If I need something from them that I CAN afford, I assure you, I'll buy from one of our sponsors.
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
"Price? Other than what I've already posted I don't know."

My apologies, I didn't realize that you had posted prices. I'll take a look.
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
so according to the emails i been getting were not allowed to talk about making our own stuff if a sponsor sells it?
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Al_lighton
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 09:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Well, as far as I'm concerned, talk about it, pool together, do it if you can. But as Blake said, the stuff we sell is top notch because of the amount of work and money that goes not only into the molds but also the equipment and the process development that has occurred over years. Most of the stuff (ALL the newer American Sport Bike stuff) that we sell is Aerospace quality "B-stage" prepreg, molded in autoclaves using the same type of processes that would produce aircraft components. Some of our old stuff is "bucket/brush" hand layup, and believe me, the quality difference is NOT subtle. The autoclave processes result in parts that have just enough resin to hold the cloth matrix in place, and no more. Lots of surface resin may look nice and glossy when new, but the parts will be brittle, will discolor badly with age, are likely to crack, and weigh much more than they should.

We can do the colored kevlar stuff, and the cost adders will be mostly material cost driven. The kevlar materials are a bit more difficult to cut, but most of the cost addition will be material, not labor. We don't buy the raw cloth, it is bought as B-stage pre-preg, and there are minimum buys that drive the cost up. If you guys pool together to get something like this done, we can minimize the material cost adders that are driven by minimum material buy issues.

All that said, we don't have an FB tail and fairing mold, YET. I need to look into that.

Al
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420at145mph
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
i want some BAD
but REALLY dont wanna spend 2 grand on it
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I wouldn't even mind spending two thousand on it I just can't at the moment. Maybe when I get done rebuilding my 351C and replace my Benelli.
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Roc
Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 12:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Better do the Benelli first, Kerry might win.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 01:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
420,
This will be my last comment on the issue. StealthXB was proposing that a bunch of you pool your orders in order to help make it attractive and cost effective for his buddy to make a production run. That is a far cry from building it yourself. If you want to try building it yourself, have at it. I'll be happy to advise you in any way I can. First issue, where/how will you get such a limited amount of material? This ain't garage tech were talking about.
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 02:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
That's what I'm thinking Roc... I hope the EBR ban sunsets for a while. All I need is a window : ). If it does sunset, it'll be on my birthday : ).
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