| Author | Message | ||
     Wahoo |
Hello everyone, I have been lurking for a few weeks, actually joined this forum before the name was changed... anyway, I recently bought a 12R that I absolutely love!!!! the only thing that I have any trouble with is- at 2500 rpm it seems to surge a bit or maybe misfire. I have only 450 miles on it, so it hasn't been in for a service yet... just wondering if anyone else has encountered this. Thanks for your input. | ||
| Sshbsn |
My 12R does the same thing. If I try to hold a steady rpm in the mid 2Ks it kind of surges or staggers, depending on your point of view. I thought it might be the TPS needing reset, but it just had its 1K service and continues to do this even though the TPS was reset...Really, if its just happier at higher rpms and speeds, well then it's not really MY fault I was speeding officer... | ||
| Sshbsn |
Also, it's not from lugging the engine. This problem occurs in the first two or three gears, when I'm in slow traffic. | ||
| Wahoo |
Thanks for your reply.... I prefer to cruise around 3K .... (Also, it's not from lugging the engine. This problem occurs in the first two or three gears, when I'm in slow traffic.) Yes what you describe is what I am feeling | ||
| Xb9er |
What you both are describing is lugging, isn't it? Mike. | ||
| Sshbsn |
2800 rpm in first should not be lugging this engine. I can't very well spend twenty minutes slipping the clutch down McGregor Blvd... From the owner's manual: "During the first 50 miles (80 km), keep the engine speed below 2500 rpm in any gear." Based on this, I don't think this rpm range is lugging...I do think there may be a fuelling issue below 3000 rpm on my bike, but that is just a guess. edited by sshbsn on April 19, 2004 | ||
| Wahoo |
xb9r, No I don't think so ( but I could be wrong) we are talking about second or third gear at 2500 R's. I am not feeling a bucking, just a slight misfire or surge. The engine runs smoothly at 2000, just not at 2500 ( I don't like to let it run at 2000 RPM however) Reminds me of a vacuum advance related surge I used to get with my 440 powered Plymouth under light throttle. I changed distributors (from stock Chrysler electronic to a MSD mechanical advance) and the problem went away. | ||
| Fullpower |
wahoo you may be on to something. assuming you have checked the obviious, checked and reconnected all the ecm, and sensor connnectors, and shoved the loose fuses back into the fuse holder box, it may be time to reset the tps and check the ignition timing. good luck | ||
| Oneway |
my XB9 has the same surge or misfire about 2000 to 2500 not all the time | ||
| Pbjoel |
Hello, I have a XB12S with the same problem. Has been to the dealer 3 times!! Dealer says this is normal. It's not for me!!! I have never ridden such an expensive and bad running bike in my 25 year experience. I think it's maybe a TPS-issue, lean mixture-issue (caused by the ECM) or ignition issue. I think I'm going to another dealer for second opinion. I have already ordered the RACE-ecm. Hope it helps. Who has the same problem? And even more important? What's the cause AND the solution? | ||
| Xb9er |
I posted not too long ago about a hesitation problem I experienced. Don't know if this will help, but it could be related your problem. Here is the link: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/55271.html?1082493219#POST2 54030 Mike. | ||
| Wahoo |
I am not sure what is going on with mine... It seems like it might be doing it at 3000 now, I am starting to think it could be primary chain slap. I think it may have something to do with the amount of throttle applied. Maybe while the engine is cruising/coasting the chain makes it feel a bit bucky.... but under more throttle it feels smooth My bar hopper-shovel rigid is primary belt drive, maybe that covered up some of what I am feeling now. I don't know, I am probably imagining 1/2 of this. Mike, I read that thread while it was going on... not sure how that relates to my symptoms, but my idle is set low just barely over 1000. I can live with it til Huffman's looks at it at 1000 miles. | ||
| Fullpower |
might as well set your idle to spec: 1050-1150 rpm. it will take less time than putting your helmet on. | ||
| Lance12r |
Same thing with my bike... I put my throttle up to 1150ish and it did help some. I have heard about issues where the timing could be the culprit but it was on OLDER bikes. Could be though. An guy I know had a similar issue, put a 1050 with stage 2 heads on (he was going to do it anyway), and he hasn't had a single little problem with his bike in 16,000 miles, he said it's actually stronger. ha!... maybe I should just get the 1250 & stage 2. Screw the warranty if it's not running the way I want or think it should. Sorry... still pissed about my experience at my local HD service dept a couple days ago. Peace... | ||
| Tpoppa |
BMW cycles have some well documented 'surging' problems. This is the first I have heard of it on a Buell. From a BMW article..."BMW motorcycles with boxer engines (horizontally opposed twins) have a reputation for "surging" or "hunting," a phenomenon that appears at low to mid RPMs under light loads or when cruising with a steady throttle. The phenomenon manifests with the engine "jerking" back and forth, similar to an automobile with a standard transmission when you lift the clutch too quickly in first gear with insufficient throttle: the vehicle lunges forward, hesitates briefly, then lunge forward again. With the BMW boxer engine, this phenomenon is much more subtle than the "clutch hiccups," but you can definitely feel it, and it is annoying."... Me again...Does this sound like the problem you guys are having? BMW riders & mechanics have beat 'surging' to death and have come up with a number of fixes. I know I am giving BMW tips but it sounds like the same problem. BMW article..."When designing a fuel injection system and matching it to a boxer engine, the engineers at BMW had to balance three conflicting objectives: horsepower (or "high-output"  , fuel economy (or "low fuel consumption", and environmental responsibility (or "low exhaust emissions". As a result, boxer engines are tuned "lean," that is, they use relatively little fuel in the fuel/air mixture in order to meet emission targets and to attain desired fuel economy levels. Combine this with design factors that are intended to deliver higher horsepower, and the fact that you only have two cylinders to get the "bang" right for a smooth running engine, and you end up with a physical design that is susceptible to surging." Me again...What is happens is with a lean mixture and a large displacement the fuel is not burning evenly in the cylinder, and surging occurs. Surging is more pronounced in bigger engines, 850 boxers don't surge but it is common in 1150 boxers. Sound familiar? XB9's don't seem to surge but a few of you with XB12's are seeing this. One easy fix for BMW's (there are many others) is to use a high performance spark plug. Some plugs have a little more spark and the tip reaches 1mm further into the cylinder. This does a better job of evenly burning the fuel. If any of this sounds like the problem you are having I can email you the whole article. | ||
| Sshbsn |
Tpoppa That sounds exactly like the symptoms on my bike. I think I read in here somewhere that the fuel injection works off of different parameters below 3K rpm than it does above; maybe it is simply too lean as you suggest. I would certainly like to read that article! My email address is sshbsn@aol.com Thanks! | ||
| Freyke |
Hey, FYI, I've got an XB9S with 6500Mi on it and all of a sudden the thing would idle great for a little while than stall out... I'd restart it and it would idle for a little bit and die... It sounded like it was running on one cylinder....I adjusted the idle setting to force it to run at around 1150RPM, but all of a sudden it would jump to 3000RPM idle(this is because it's now running on two cylinders).... Well the symtptoms kept getting progressivly worse over a period of two days... Finally the thing would barely run at all and felt as weak as a new born kitten.... I called my dealer (Southside HD/Buell - Va Bch) and they squeezed me in right away the next morning.... Seemed like this could possibly be a simple TPS reset.... To make a long story short after about six hours of trouble-shooting w/factory tech assist help to the dealer it turns out that the front lung's spark plug had a hair-line crack and was not firing at all or sporaticlly firing for short durations.... I guess the Digital technical did not spit out a code on this particular prob... It apparently spit out every other code leading everyone on a wild goose chase.... Anyway, after a new set of plugs, timing check, Idle Adjust, and TPS reset, it's back to running like a champ... Many thanks to the dealer who like I said put me ahead on the list and got the problem solved... Plus it cost not one red cent (I've got a three year extended warrenty)... Just something to keep in mind next time you have idle/running issues... kk//kef edited by freyke on April 23, 2004 | ||
| Pbjoel |
Hello, I've read about the BMW KFR-problem (Konstant Fahr Ruckeln). It means that the engine is surging when driving at a constant speed at low rpm (2k-3k). Here in Holland a BMW-dealer had the following solution. BRISK racing spark plugs and! perfect synchronisation of the 2!! throttle valves. BMW Germany didn't recognize the problem at first. However with their new series of 1150's they introduced twin-spark heads and solved the problem. Off cause the XB12 only have one throttle valve so synchronisation isn't an issue. Maybe the EPA-regulations are an issue. It could be that between 2k and 3k the mixture is too lean because of those regulations. Does anybody know if the RACE-ECM for the 12S is setting the injection richer between 2k and 3k? It might be the solution. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Pbjoel-I think you are on the right track. Have any of you XB12 riders had this problem, then installed a race kit? I am curios if this fixes it. BMW riders have reported surging for years (5 or 6 I believe). The BMW factory basically ignored the problem until the 2004 model year when they introduced the 2 spark plug per cylinder heads--and the surging went away. Some BMW dealers are actually retrofitting the twin spark design to pre 2004 models (at a big cost to the owners). Unfortunately, during that time BMW's got a reputation for surging--and it affected sales. Some of the newer Ducatis (another big air cooled twin) also have adopted a 2 spark plug design--I wonder if they had the same issue. IF the XB12's are indeed having the same problem (notice I said IF), Buell needs to address it sooner than later. I think the XB's are great bikes and would hate for them to get a reputation for surging. If anyone from the Buell factory monitors these threads...I am curios if this is a known issue. This should be an easier to fix on a Buell then on a BMW for a couple reasons. Richening the fuel mix on a BMW can burn up the catalytic converter--no such worries on a Buell. Throttle body synch is also not a concern on a Buell. This is a very good BMW board. If you do a search for surging you will find many threads. Some of the fixes will be specific to the BMW Motronic engine management system. BMW Riders tend to be very knowledgable about their cycles--many do their own valve adjustments & synch throttle bodies. http://b15.ezboard.com/bbmwr1150rmessageboard BTW, If my XB9S didn't kick so much ASS, I would have a BMW R1150r Sshbhn--I will send that article tonight. | ||
| Jasonblue |
I was having the same problem on my 9 a week ago. It did it on one tank of gas. When I filled up the next time it cleared up after about 10 minutes of riding. Bad gas I guess..? | ||
| Oneway |
had my 1000 done today at 1400ml asked the dealer about a noise that sounded like primary chain slop to me was told that noise was fine. seems excessive to me is this normal | ||
| Sshbsn |
Tpoppa-- Got the article and it has a bunch of relevant info. THANK YOU!! 1) TPS miscalibrated: I did not have my 1K service done at the dealer, but at another local HD certified service outlet. I wonder if they didn't have the device to calibrate the tps, and so I now have surging? I need to tactfully ask them if the TPS was "forgotten"...and I have forgotten if the bike always did this. 2) Higher ambient temps give greater risk of surging: my bike lives in balmy southwest Florida and we definitely have had higher temps lately. 3) Techlusion Fuel Nanny enrichens AF mix: really? I've read on this site that the XB is on the lean end of the chart. Maybe this is causing the problem and the Nanny can be a solution. I'll go onto their web site and see if this works on any bike, or if it's BMW specific. |
