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Jerseyguy
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 12:52 pm: | 
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Gman - No offense taken here. I just want to make sure you understood the truth of what went down. My personal opinion is that the claims made (see the XB10 thread also) are so outrageous as to not warrant my further interest. Other folks can do as they see fit. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 01:11 pm: |
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I observiated this long ago...will repeat.
Jerseyguy is a smart guy who produced an exquisite piece of craftsmanship.
He, himownself, acknowledged my sincere compliments and hint that the Buell velocity stack was the result of a lot of talented engineers doing a lot of hard work. It was not a random "best guess" on the part of Buell.
The fact that his gorgeous (his was proven in an independent test to be 11.34 times better looking than the Buell piece) proved no better on a dyno than the OEM Buell piece proved TWO things.
THING ONE: Buell folks are damn good engineers.
THING TWO: Jerseyguy is an excellent craftsman.
No more.
Claims beyond that are, in my personal opinion, to be treated with a degree of skepticism. You want REAL performance and are talking to someone other than Ron Dickey, Aaron, Pammy, Wes or Al Lighton you are risking being part of a marketing experiment.
Again, just my personal opinion. I'm not near as smart as the guys (and Queen Gal) named above. They are not only smart, they are honest to a fault. If Pammy or Aaron can do nothing for you, they'll tell you that free. That earns points in my book.
Trust they ass and thy heart....
Court |
Dyna
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 01:23 pm: |
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I appreciate your challenge to Corey James as I think he should be up to another comparison to help settle this. But, it would be hard to speak for him. Dyna, the guy might not trust that you'll give him a fair test to "prove" his product is junk.
Gotta remember that I have no vested interest in if his product succeeds or fails. I havent bought one so I dont need to prove to myself that the money wasnt wasted & I dont sell any products that would compete with it. If it works as he claims then I will post the results on Badweb, ATC, The Borg & wherever else. However if it fails those tests would also be posted.
We can test a stock 12 against the stack & a stock 9 against the stack along with a 9 with the 12 cover against a stack. No need to include the race ecm because we are just looking for baseline gains.
Im willing to take the time to also test Nology wires & that new TI system since it seems nobody can figure out how do get an independant test done anymore.
Lets get them parts in the mail boys & let the chips fall where they may. |
Tucsonxb9s
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 11:43 am: |
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Dyna, heard from Corey yet? |
Darthane
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 11:47 am: |
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Heh...you ARE kidding, right? |
Dyna
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 12:02 pm: |
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Actually i did, he denied the challenge. Big suprise. |
Tucsonxb9s
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 07:15 pm: |
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Looks like Gman may be up for being the guinea pig. He's got the stack and box installed. It'd take some $ and time to get him the stuff he needs to run a proper comparison. My only wonder is will it be worth it??
Gman, are you near any other badwebbers that may be able to help us out on the quest of the holy grail? (The grail kinda looked like a velocity stack in the Indiana Jones movie...) |
Xb9rrob
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 01:58 pm: |
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Hello, I am JavaUnlimited who is listing the SVVS stack and TiForce exhaust for Brion-James on Ebay, which started this whole piss-n-moan fest of a thread. First off, NO I am not Corey James, and NO I am not Brion Ricks. Actually, while for years I have thought that Corey was an anal self-serving prick, I have come to learn that he is a very knowledgeable anal self-serving prick when it comes to Buells, and I have listened to him when it comes to upgrading my '03 XB9R. I was so impressed with it, I volunteered to help him sell his products through my Ebay venture and direct marketing that I perform here. Now, I would like to comment on a couple things from a post I just read:
"Easy flier is correct. Jersey guy is working on a new one as we speak..."
He needs to. If you pattern an aftermarket stack after the OEM with the exact same specifications and dimensions, you would get the same results. The design, dimensions and mathematics that went into the design of the SVVS unit did not come by happen chance. Brion and Corey put a tremendous amount of street, dyno and race time into developing and testing the unit before making it available to the general public. The claims of horsepower are reasonable when you consider they state horsepower gains of between three and seven horsepower. However, after extensive conversations with Brion and Corey, they are first to point out that improved torque curves are more important than horsepower. I know for a fact that Corey has this on three separate race team bikes, and all results are the RPM hole between the 4000 and 5000 range are all but eliminated.
"As far as the bryon james crap... Just buy their clear nippled cover and you'll get the same benefit as the whole thing. That's the only part that actually does anything."
Oh yeah, go ahead and install the clear 'nipple' over that worthless OEM rubber stack that is just going to distort and deform after time like they do now without the clear 'nipple' over them. Oh yeah, you made a winner of a suggestion there.
"Oh wait... You could just buy an XB12 airbox cover (cheap) and get the SAME results as it's the SAME thing..."
No, you don't get the SAME results, and it's not the SAME thing. Do you have the SVVS stack on your bike? No? Then how do you know it's the same thing as buying an airbox from a 12? You don't. Go make a claim about something you do know, whatever that may be. I DO have this unit on my '03 XB9R. Corey suggested to me that I try the XB12 box before I spent the money on his unit, so that I could see for myself what the difference would be between the two. While you do gain 3-4 horsepower with the 12's airbox on a 9, it's nothing that's really usable. It does nothing to terminate the RPM hole in its entirety. You need the increases in the torque and the low end, which is where the XB's shine, without a doubt.
"Ingenuity and out of the box thinking at it's finest I suppose (Oh wait... It's just a copy of OEM equipment... N/M)."
Yes, it is ingenuity at its finest. It has been researched, developed, tested, retested and retested under strict conditions to ensure that it will perform up to advertised specifications. Oh no, it's not a copy of factory OEM equipment. You don't see the name Jerseyguy anywhere near this stack. His stack sure was pretty, just didn't perform worth a crap. My bike is living proof that it does. I'll be happy to trade dyno sheets with anyone that chooses your XB12 box approach, and anyone that uses that worthless Buell "race kit". What an oxymoron there. Oh, and for the record, COrey has told me several times to go with the drummer exhaust from Tilley's H-D/Buell, and commented many times that Brian Gardner also stood by his products and Corey thinks quite highly of this individual. Brian Gardner has a free SVVS stack from Brion and Corey that was supplied without a rubber SVVS seal for Tilley's to cut and shape the stock OEM rubber velocity stack to learn the process of a proper seal. To my knowledge, where is this dyno run that was supposedly performed by Tilley's? I know two other Harley-Davidson shops that have run independent dyno runs, and have determined that the hole is eliminated. This is a direct result from that ingenuity you spoke about.
"anyway, buy what makes you happy."
Yes, please do and I sure did. Remember, the old addage is still correct, "You get what you pay for". Go ahead and buy that $35 Xb12 box and meet me at the Tail of the Dragon this year and you'll see how pitiful being cheap makes you look. Thank-you for your time and effort.
Rob Spicer
JavaUnlimited
A Very Happy SVVS Customer
Now, quit your bitching and go out and do something productive with your Buell, instead of sitting in from of a computer bitching about it. |
Dyna
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 02:49 pm: |
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Now there is an unbiased report..LOL
Hmm making money by fleecing ebay buyers. of course you will talk it up. I have yet to see any independant dyno runs backing up any of the Corey claims. |
Davefl
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 02:54 pm: |
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For anyone not knowing the history of this controversy go to this link for a good recap of the previous events.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/45424.html
I have noticed that this stuff keeps coming up after the old topics drop off the list. Do they think that we forget what was said or that every thing on this site is easily searched to find stuff from years ago? I remember when this was a new issue. They would have had independent dyno results if they had not been so hard to deal with. I do not trust dyno sheets from the people trying to sell the product, there is to many ways to influence the results to show an improvement when in fact there is none.
Just my .02
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Xb9er
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 03:04 pm: |
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Birds of a feather....
From reading what this guy and Corey say, there must have been at least a half dozen or more independent dyno runs done on the short stack and yet, noone on this BBS or anywhere in the Buell world has actually seen one sheet!!!!
Mike. |
Davefl
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 03:10 pm: |
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I visit most of the Buell bulletin boards out there from time to time and this is by far the biggest Buell community out there. Why is it that when someone comes on and says that this product works, that it is the best thing since sliced bread have only registered that day? |
Boulderbiker
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 04:22 pm: |
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Hmmm, lets do the BS test...
"He needs to. If you pattern an aftermarket stack after the OEM with the exact same specifications and dimensions, you would get the same results"
Then later we get
"Oh yeah, go ahead and install the clear 'nipple' over that worthless OEM rubber stack that is just going to distort and deform after time like they do now without the clear 'nipple' over them. Oh yeah, you made a winner of a suggestion there."
Wait, but you said that Jersey's aluminum would get the same results as the rubber one, then later you tout your product and bash Buell's flexy rubber one. Sounds kinda like a sales pitch to me.
Sorry dude, but you're gonna have to do a whole lot better than that for anyone but the mindless sheep on Corey's board to believe a word you've got to say. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 04:38 pm: |
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XB9rrob - Show me an independent dyno from someone I trust. I don't mean to be a prick, but I don't trust claims from anyone except people who are well respected on THIS board. THIS board is the only Buell board that's worth a damn. Give the product to someone from THIS board (including the rubber seal) and we'll all know. It's that simple. If it works better on a 12 than the 12 airbox or if it works better on a 9 with the 12 airbox we'll know and I assure you... Brion and James will sell product.
Why would they not do this? IMO sending the stack w/o the seal (prompting possible instalation error) is a hedge against the possible outcome. Why do they feel they need that hedge? Why?
You mention that the stack reduces/mostly eliminates the torque dip in the mid range... Is this the range that they are also claiming sees a gain? I might believe that. However... What does it do to the top? The bottom? |
Jerseyguy
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 04:46 pm: |
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"Jersey guy is working on a new one as we speak..." He needs to.
Ummmm... NOBODY tells me what I need to do (other than my wife).
"If you pattern an aftermarket stack after the OEM with the exact same specifications and dimensions, you would get the same results."
"worthless OEM rubber stack that is just going to distort and deform after time like they do now"
If the stock stack distorts and deforms so badly, then why did an aluminum one with the exact same specifications perform identically?
I really don't know why I bother ..... I guess when the bullshit alarm goes off you just need to react.
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Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 06:00 pm: |
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and all results are the RPM hole between the 4000 and 5000 range are all but eliminated.
And all this time I thought it was an exhaust design problem.
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Darthane
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 06:35 pm: |
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LOL...see, now Aaron - Aaron we trust. Send a stack to him, he'll come up with every possible scenario to test it under, post all the results and we'll know that those two are pissing into the wind.
Wait...we already know that. Ahh, screw the dynoes, just go away. |
Dyna
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 06:49 pm: |
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I think they are all the same person, Corey, Rob Hughes & this new ebay joker. |
Xb9er
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 08:48 pm: |
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...but I don't trust claims from anyone except people who are well respected on THIS board. THIS board is the only Buell board that's worth a damn.
BadWeb is the best! Those clowns don't seem to realize what a potential market they have here on this BBS. If there had been some independent verification (testimonials don't count!!) of their claims when they released the product, I would have been one of the first in line to buy their stack. Then I would have sung its praises all over this forum. But they have proven themselves to be liars time and again.
Don't get me wrong, these guys are making a mint. Problem is their customers don't know any better. I would guess their customers are the kind who turn Buells into choppers, or think diamond plate makes a good airbox cover.
Mike. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 10:22 pm: |
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"Liars" is a very accurate description. |
Buckinfubba
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 11:50 pm: |
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I have big tits and independent dyno's to prove it |
Davefl
| | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 07:53 am: |
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Bubba, what does that torque curve look like |
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 07:59 am: |
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"Then there was [Bubba]. [Bubba] had b#$%@ tits." |
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