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Mikef5000
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I finally finished my Gigantuan electical project. I wanted to do everything right the first time with my new bike, so I went all out.
Huge main thread with tons of wiring diagrams here:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/521649.html?1260766045

But here goes the condensed version:
Upside-Down AAAHHHHH SCARY!

Right side up, much better:

What you're looking at is 2 relays on each side (mounted to dual relay sockets inside the project box), a timer relay on the far right, a fuse block on the top, and a circuit breaker next to it.

INSTALLED:

Not bad, all the wiring is condensed to one side, and it's not to hideous. I may shove it all in some looming. Haven't decided yet.

Relays:
1) Main switched power relay for the fuse block
2) Fog Lights
3) Left Signals
4) Right Signals
5) Timer Relay - HID Low Beam

Fuses:
1) Constant; battery tender and interior trunk light
2) Switched with key; Signals and Horn
3) Switched with key; Fog Lights
4) Switched with key; HID low beam

The two signal relays convert the normally off turn signals to normally on running lights, that blink off for signal. The relays are also run to a switch for 4-way flasher mode.

Rear Running Lights:

I have red bulbs for the rear signals, I just haven't put them in yet.

Front running lights, with the 55 watt HID low beam:


The HID low beam is run through the 528T Pulse Timer Relay for a 15 second delayed start, so I can get the motor up and running before it kicks on.

The switches turned out pretty good if I do say so myself:




Throttle side is the red 4-way flasher switch. Clutch side is the blue fog light switch.

The two slim 35 watt fog light ballasts as well as the fat 55 watt low beam ballast fit under the flyscreen next to the Stebel Nautilus just fine. Sorry no 'under flyscreen' pics. Maybe later.

The fogs haven't been installed yet, but the wiring is there ready to go as soon as I bolt up my brackets.


I also added the LED voltage 'gauge' in the dash.

I wanted everything to last forever, so every connection is crimped, soldered, and taped. The high power wires are 12 gauge, and the low power wires are 20 gauge.

I'm pretty happy, despite the fact that it took WAY longer than anticipated. That fact that it's done, and done right, makes it all worth it.

Thoughts, questions, comments?
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Bobbuell1961
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 06:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

well done,
where did you get the timer relay?
nice idea on the switches,are they ez to access
how did you wire the signals?
tx, Bob
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Gunut75
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 07:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thats awesome! I'm not very electrical savvy, so I appreciate a job well done. Took longer? meh.......worth the wait! Rock on!
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Iamarchangel
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Looks sharp and well done.

Also, looks like you need a new rear tire and should probably change tire type.
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Mikef5000
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just googled the timer relay. A bunch of places sell them, all for about $20. This is what you're looking for:
528T Pulse Timer
I couldn't find one locally.

I got the idea for the switch location from here on badweb. I love them!

The signals are wired through two relays.
Terminal 85 connects to the oem signal wire
Terminal 86 is grounded
Terminal 30 is connected to fused and switched (with key) power
Terminal 87a goes to the signals

You will either need to add a big resistors on each side, or buy an LED flasher. I bought a flasher.

The back tire is in good shape. The strada's are just smooth in the center.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Car alarm places may have a timer relay in stock...

I have a schematic up here for a "build your own for $5 in parts" if you are in the mood for a little more adventure. It is a little circuit that adds a delay to a normal relay.

Mine is still working perfectly.
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Greg_e
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

With all the nice work I hate to point out a major flaw... It looks like you have a black wire on the positive battery terminal. Any color besides black, green, or brown on the positive terminal and whatever color the bike uses for ground should be on the negative terminal (black or black with stripe depending on the usage).

It looks like it would be fairly easy to change so I would change it to a red wire on battery + and a black wire on battery - just to be safe. Or just swap the black and blue wires on the fuse block and battery since they are already cut and crimped.
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Nik
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have the turn signals wired up as running lights that flash off as well. To get the rear lights red I just sprayed the inner lens with candy red model paint, which allowed me to stay with the smaller 10W bulb.
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Mikef5000
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

With all the nice work I hate to point out a major flaw... It looks like you have a black wire on the positive battery terminal.

All of my heavy gauge wiring is black. I just bought a spindle of black 12 gauge wiring. Actually all the smaller wires I added are black too. The only non-black wires are the pigtales that come out of the Relay Sockets. I like the cleaner look of black wiring. The battery wire is only 6" long anyway, it goes straight to the circuit breaker right next to the battery, so it's not like I'm going to confuse it's polarity. The only reason the ground is blue is because it's straight out of one of the relay pigtales (spliced into the other relays) and straight to the battery. The Positive is heavy gauge wire, the negative is small wire because all it's powering is the relays, while the positive is power the whole fuse block.

To get the rear lights red I just sprayed the inner lens with candy red model paint, which allowed me to stay with the smaller 10W bulb.

I think I already decided I'm going to pickup a cheap set of red LED bulbs for the rear and amber LED bulbs for the front. Try to save some power at the same time as fixing the color and lowering the temperatures.
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Nik
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I've recently did that too. The LED bulbs I got fit just inside that inner lens. I don't know how red they'd look going through an amber lens, but I did try without any, and using the lens did even out the light. I'm not all that happy with the brightness of my setup compared to using incandescents so please report back with your findings!
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Mikef5000
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'll be sure to report back.... but, I'll be using red and amber LED's, so I'm planning on simply removing the amber inner lens that is currently in there.

Also I'm not too worried about losing a little brightness out of the rear signals. Right now they are significantly brighter than the rest of the running lights (brake lights are brighter), so toning them down a scootch is just fine with me.
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Greg_e
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There's nothing saying you can't use the black wire for positive, but I bet the first mechanic that has to do some electrical work on your bike blows something up. The color means nothing to the electrons, but it means a lot to the people working on the machine. If it was mine I would make certain that I didn't use any black wire for +12 on a machine that comes stock with black being ground.
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Avc8130
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I can tell you firsthand that black for a positive will only lead to trouble. My buddy took his Triumph in for "hard starting". The techs worked with the factory to diagnose it as "improper grounding". They added some "ground straps" to the bike connecting the frame and motor to the negative battery terminal. Everything was wonderful. The next spring my buddy went to swap out the battery. He pulled the stock battery and went to the dealer and got the replacement. He got home and installed the battery with the red wires on the positive and the black on the ground. The positive terminal INSTANTLY melted and the wire caught fire. Luckily he hit it with the extinguisher before it got "out of hand". Apparently the dealer used RED for the added ground straps.

Moral of the story: don't fight convention. Grab some RED electrical tape and mark that positive wire as far as it can be seen from the battery.

Why do such a great job and sell it short?
ac
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Mikef5000
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 08:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It's a 4" long wire! 100% in plain sight! I AIN'T CHANGIN IT NO MATTER WHAT YOU ALL SAY!

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Avc8130
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 09:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Fair enough. I agree there is little risk with YOU working on it or anyone who is thorough AND understands DC power. Anyone else has a real chance for issues, but hey, it's not MY bike.
ac
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Mikef5000
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Speaking of me working on it. OF COURSE, after everything is installed and working, I go to connect the fog lights, and get nothing.

Tested it back and found the relay is working correctly, but the wire that comes out of the box isn't getting any juice. Looks like I'll have to pull the whole setup back out. My guess is the pigtale was pushed out of the relay socket, rather than sliding over the relay tab like it was supposed to.

It'll be a 2 hour job for a 10 second fix.

Bummer!

But good news is I finished fabbing up my Fog Light brackets and am pretty happy with them.
Looks like I can get everything to work out with the signals in 'shorty' mode (with the spacer on the inside) which is a plus!

13 hours of work tomorrow, but then I've got the day off on Thursday, so everything should get taken care of then!
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Avc8130
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

SO wait, you have to yank the whole thing? Might as well change to some red wire :-)
ac
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Greg_e
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If you really want to, you can rewire the entire machine using the same color wire. it will be difficult to troubleshoot in the future, but in the end it is your bike and do as you wish with it.

BTW, I have worked on a few different things that used all the same color wire because it is far cheaper than using multiple colors. These wires were all very short and should have been easy to follow. I'll tell you it was not fun finding the problem.

Just trying to instill best practices.
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Avc8130
Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Greg,
I agree, with 1 exception. Red belongs on positive. I have seen the outcome. If it is hot and it goes to the battery, it should be red.
ac
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Greg_e
Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 12:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Unless you make german machines where ground is brown and black is free to do whatever you want. Been burned by that too. And then there is green. All three of those colors should be reserved for ground for ever more.
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Ghostrider
Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sounds to me like he knows very well where red is appropriate and where it isn't but for the sake of convenience and cost, has opted to do what he chooses with his machine. Is there a risk that someone else who works on it might mistake what's going on? Sure. Sounds like that's a risk he's willing to take. Makes no sense beating up on a guy when he's sharing so many great ideas with everyone. Wire yours the way you like and cut the guy some slack.
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Avc8130
Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, he must be black and blue all over from us beating him up over the internet and whipping him with red wires.

He wrote a GREAT DIY and summary of how to add some wonderful functionality to his bike that others will likely replicate in portion at least.

To ADD to his DIY/summary a few who have experienced some issues due to wire coloring have proivided some constructive critisism. I don't think anyone was beating him up.

Heck, my last "jab" to replace the black with red included a ":-)". Who internet punches with a ":-)"?
ac
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Greg_e
Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The only other thing I might suggest is that after you are certain it is going to stay working, fill that box with hot glue. That will keep water and vibrations away and the vibrations can lead to wires chaffing of things and since it is under the seat, could lead to a very alarming sensation in an area where alarming is not usually fun. If you need to get back in there you should be able to melt the hot glue with a heat gun and it should drip away (no promises).

But as I said above, it is your machine, do what you want with it.
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Mikef5000
Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Turns out a 10 amp fuse is not enough for the Stebel Air Horn! IMPRESSIVE! 15 Amp it is!

GhostRider, you're exactly right about me knowing it should be red, and knowing if others work on it they could have problems.

I know what these guys are trying to say and why they are pushing the issue, I'm just choosing to ignore them all!

I'm not taking it as insult or jabs.

Filling the box with glue is an interesting idea. It scares me to think I couldn't work on it down the road if I have issues (since crucial parts run through it like the headlight and signals). But it would be much more solid. That would take A LOT of hot glue. I'm sure there's something made for just this. I've taken apart my fair share of ballasts and electrical devices, and anything high powered is always full of a rubber/silicone type filler. I wonder where I can get some of that, and how it's installed.
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Avc8130
Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That stuff is called potting compound. You should be able to get it from the local electronics shop (Real one, not Radio Shack). It is installed like hot glue. My buddy does board level work for locomotives. They use hot glue religiously. It is cheaper and works just the same. If you need to service something it chips off pretty easily, or can be melted out with an older soldering gun.

Really I think it would be overkill. Everything you have there is automotive grade. If you were worried about a relay socket a wrap with electrical tape and a small zip tie will solve that.

Certainly not as important as a red wire for positive :-)
ac

(Message edited by avc8130 on December 16, 2009)
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Mikef5000
Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yes, after much searching, I did find it is called "Potting compound". Shoulda just checked back here I guess. All of it I could find online was $$$!
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Greg_e
Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

100 count bags of hot glue are only a few dollars and a heat gun to melt should be under $50. There would still be some jerking around after melting most of the glue off, but far less than what would need to be done if you used silicone like they do in the ECMs (I'll be doing a post on this this weekend unless plans change).
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Greg_e
Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

http://www.adhesivetech.com/consumer-crafts/produc ts-detail.cfm?PID=150&CID=109&TID=52

Under $10 at walmart.

There are some nice "super clear" sticks out there that might be nice, but you can't run down to the local craft or big box store to buy them.

Man there are some crazy hot glue guns, saw one with pneumatic feed and some crazy high wattage heater for $555
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hot melt glue works great for potting. You even get a little "heat sink" effect, as a hot component has to "melt" all the glue to get to failure temperatures... that phase change across a large volume eats a LOT of joules... a good thing.

It does seem to break down with UV though, so keep it out of sunlight.

You can generally get it back off without destroying things also... just use a hot knife and some needle nose pliers.

The hot melt glue will even take paint... Handy stuff.
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Mikef5000
Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Good to know! Thanks!

Fog lights are on! Not sure if I love them or not, but I've only got $30 in them (not including the HID's which I can reuse) so I'm not to worried about swapping them out down the road.












Now I need to go out and do some testing!
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Greg_e
Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hella Micro DE fogs are really nice, have a set on my car.
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Mikef5000
Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Looks like I need to figure something out in regards to a glue. The same damn fog light pigtale must've come out again. It worked for the pictures and testing. Then once I bolted it back down and rode off it stopped working again.

I guess I shoulda known, the part that I didn't even think about causing problems (relay socket) is now my worst enemy.

Bummer!

Whelp, learn as you go I suppose. I'll take problems now, if I can get them all taken care of before spring comes!
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Avc8130
Posted on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 12:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

In the past I have had similar experiences with some of those sockets. I don't think they are made quite as well as they should be. You may be able to wrap a small zip tie around it between 2 of the wires to hold it together. You could also wrap it with electrical tape along the seam.
ac
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