| Author | Message | ||
     Coops53233 |
OK! I finally picked up a Brembo Ducati caliper used on Ebay. It is the one with bleeder and banjo fittings on opposite sides of the caliper. Unfortunately, the banjo fittings on the stock line do not line up correctly with the new caliper's banjo bolt. I purchased a new 23" SS Goodridge brake line with a 15-degree angled banjo fitting for the caliper-end, and a 35-degree angled banjo fitting for the master cylinder end. As you can see below, I routed the line under the swingarm. This is primarily because the 23" line was a bit too long; a 21" line would probably be the ideal length for routing the line in the stock location with this caliper. Performance-wise, the new caliper seems a bit stronger than the stock caliper. That said, you're not going to lock up by just tapping it. The big improvement, in my opinion, is feel - before, the rear brake felt like it was either "on" or "off." Last fall, there was an incident where I had to stop in a hurry, and, using both the front and the rear brake, I ended up locking up the rear. In my opinion, there just isn't enough feel in the stock rear system to find that point of max braking without locking up. This new caliper, with dual piston design and larger pads, is much easier to modulate. I do a fair amount of two-up riding and loaded down touring (i have two Uly hard cases for trips) and believe this will increase brake performance when loaded down, and make it easier to feel the difference between a quick-stop and a lock-up. Note on the install: I have always found working on brakes intimidating, and thus have tended to procrastinate on the system's maintenance. Now I realize how easy it all really is, and will never spend another dime on brake system labor at the shop. So if any of you reading this want to do a similar project, but are too overwhelmed, get the service manual, a mighty vac hand pump, and give it a shot! The brakes are not as complicated as they seem. Thanks again to Keith at Dark Horse Moto for the caliper bracket. He is a pleasure to deal with, and his products are top-quality. On to the pics: Clean Swingarm  New Caliper  Brake Line Clamp Relocated to Heel Guard Bolt  Routing to Master Cylinder  Banjo Fitting Near Master Cylinder  Finished Product   and a couple more gratuitous shots, since you're already looking...   (Message edited by coops53233 on August 09, 2009) | ||
| Firebolt32 |
Damn good job! Looks great. | ||
| Thepod |
Looks really sweet. How much money was it in total if you don't mind me asking. Also, how long of an install? | ||
| Coops53233 |
Thanks guys! This project came with some mission creep. I originally hoped to use the stock line, but this caliper's banjo bolt location does not allow it. If you use the other caliper listed on Dark Horse Moto's website with the smaller pad size, I *THINK* you could use the stock brake line. So here is the price list: Brembo Ducati Rear Caliper (came with its banjo and bleeder bolts) - $39 shipped ebay Goodridge 23" Stainless Brake line - $16.70 shipped ebay Cheap 10mm Banjo Fittings (x2) - $19.98 shipped ebay Dark Horse Moto Caliper Bracket and Mounting Hardware - $87.94 shipped. Copper Crush Washers - $3 Autozone DOT IV Fluid, Small Can - $4 Autozone --------- $170.62 (Optional) Blue Locktite - $5 Autozone (I already had some on hand) (Optional) Roll of Teflon Tape - $4 Autozone (Optional) Mighty Vac Vacuum Kit - $30 Autozone --------- $39 Total Install Time: Kinda Depends. I spent about 4hrs total removing the old system and installing the new line and caliper. However, it was my 1st time bleeding my rear brake, and 2nd time ever bleeding ANY brakes. Probably half of the 4hrs was spent trying to bleed the rear brake the "old fashioned" way - pumping the pedal and opening/closing the bleeder nipple. When I finally wised up and bought the Mighty Vac, it took about 20mins to bleed both the front and rear brakes. I think it should take a rookie with all the parts, the right tools and some basic skills about 2 1/2 hrs, start to finish. (Message edited by coops53233 on August 10, 2009) | ||
| Kenney83 |
I think it looks great. I personally think the break line under the swing arm doesn't look good and might be easily damaged by rocks. Other wise very clean. Now all you need is the Dark Horse rear pulley. | ||
| Sloppy |
Looks nice - do I hear a "bling"? Is that the bleeder valve that is below the banjo bolt? Can you fit a closed socket on that banjo bolt? I believe it's goodridge that makes banjo bolts with bleeder valves in them. Might be a good investment on both sides of the hose. | ||
| Coops53233 |
Kenney83, I agree. I would rather have routed the brake line in the stock location, but I would have needed a shorter line. It's just cosmetic though - there isn't any rock damage on the bottom of the swingarm, so I doubt the brake line will be at risk. Bling indeed, Sloppy! The bleeder is, in fact, below the banjo on this set-up. A closed socket will probably not fit, but it is easily accessible with an open-end or box-end wrench. And bleeder banjo fittings might make it easier to bleed. But, for me, costs were already spiraling, and the bleed wasn't sufficiently difficult to justify the extra cost to me. | ||
| Postban |
?!?!?! rear brake? what the heck would you ever use that for?  | ||
| Circusninja |
Dooooood.... that is sexy. | ||
| Coops53233 |
That Dark Horse Moto pulley looks amazing. But then I'd have to upgrade to '04+ belt system. That's getting dangerously close to the $1k range! | ||
| Sfinton |
Postban: I seem to use my rear brake a majority of the time...is that weird? | ||
| Andymnelson |
"Postban: I seem to use my rear brake a majority of the time...is that weird?" No. | ||
| Wavex |
Rear brake is almost useless imho. Front brake should be doing 90% of the braking anyway. | ||
| Coops53233 |
That's what I thought, Wavex. That's why I installed a more useful one. | ||
| Wavex |
No what I mean is that the stock rear brake is perfectly fine since you're not supposed to use it that much anyway... Great job and all, and it looks good, but I personally don't see the point, since the rear brake is really not important on a sportbike... but hey, it can't hurt either so wth!  | ||
| Andymnelson |
Of course the rear brake is important. It's not like we all race our bikes on tracks 24/7. Front should be doing 90% of the work...on a hard stop. Using the rear brake keeps the nose from diving on stops, giving you greater control of the bike in a stop, as well as being more comfortable to ride. Also excellent when riding 2-up. All of that said, I don't see a "need" for a stronger rear brake on our bikes- I can lock mine up easily if I wanted to. But I do see the point in changing to a caliper that allows finer control over the rear brake, and I also like the look of the hidden caliper (probably the best reason to do this mod!). Outside of the cable routing, job well done! | ||
| Zatco81 |
+1 Andy...Even if I didn't use my rear brake I'd do this mod just because it looks great. | ||
| Delta_one |
how is the performance? a little more linear? is it a floating caliper with this mod? thanks | ||
| Al_lighton |
That particular mod also pulls about a pound of unsprung mass off the swingarm as well. In the wet, or any other marginal traction surface, a nicer rear brake is a good thing. the trick to bleeding the rear brake quickly without any special tools is to put a rotor simulator between the pads so that you don't eject the pistons in the caliper, and elevate the caliper. The bubble wants to go to the top, so if you bleed it with the caliper as the highest thing, it happens pretty quickly. Conversely, if it isn't, you will NEVER push the bubble downhill to the caliper with only the master cylinder. It just doesn't move enough fluid to push the bubble. Al (Message edited by al_lighton on August 13, 2009) | ||
| Coops53233 |
Delta - The new caliper definitely provides a more linear feel over the stock one. And like I said above, I think its only a little stronger than the stock unit; I think you'd also have to upgrade the master cylinder to make it noticeably stronger or to make locking up the rear easier. Caliper is not floating though, it's bolted to the bracket, which is bolted to the swingarm, both in fixed positions. Al, that is a great idea I didn't even consider. I may try that when I install the shorter line! | ||
| Gunut75 |
Vacula vacuum bleeder!!!!!! | ||
| Wavex |
Andy "Of course the rear brake is important. It's not like we all race our bikes on tracks 24/7. Front should be doing 90% of the work...on a hard stop. Using the rear brake keeps the nose from diving on stops, giving you greater control of the bike in a stop, as well as being more comfortable to ride. Also excellent when riding 2-up." You don't need to be a racer... the front brake is much more important than the rear brake in any situation, and who ever tells me the stock caliper does not provide a good enough linear feel is full of it imho. If the front of your bike "dives" on normal stops, you need to check your suspension settings as the rear brake won't stop the weight of the bike + rider from moving to the front of the bike... I am not sure why using the rear brake would give you "more control" when braking, but if you say so... not sure how it makes a "more comfortable" ride either... using your rear brake only gives you a bit more braking power, but that's about all it does for normal braking. In hard braking (as in emergency braking), some people actually recommend you focus on your front brake only (if you use the rear, fine, but you will most likely lock it, which won't help much and may even make the situation worse for most riders). Agreed that it looks good. That's about it. | ||
| Andymnelson |
You didn't read my post well enough. You just want to argue, gotta love the interwebs. To each their own. | ||
| Wavex |
lol! For the record, I made a simple comment, and you started to argue for no reason, talking about things (racing, front end diving, bike control and comfort) that have nothing to do with the topic at hand... so yeah... I just want to argue :rolleyes To each his own indeed (Message edited by wavex on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Coops53233 |
Wavex: "who ever tells me the stock caliper does not provide a good enough linear feel is full of it imho." Interesting observation from a guy who never uses his rear brake.  Just because I (and many others) disagree doesn't mean we're "full of it." I, for one, am very happy that the stock rear brake fits your needs. Unfortunately, it didn't fit mine. Compared to using just one brake, correctly using both brakes will stop you in a shorter distance EVERY TIME. The reason some recommend applying one brake in emergency situations is because applying both may be too much for the average rider to concentrate on (according to a MSF study). I've found this isn't an issue for me. Second, like I've said repeatedly above, my primary goal with this mod was to improve rear brake feel and performance when riding two-up or loaded down. That's 110 lbs of precious cargo directly over the rear axle... so yes, a MORE DISTINCT linear feeling and slightly stronger rear brake is much more useful in these riding situations than the stock unit. Does it make performance difference when I'm riding by myself? Maybe, at the margin. I would point out though that the 1125s come stock with stationary-mounted, dual-piston rear brake calipers. I guess there must have been SOME room for improvement over the XB design...? At least we all agree that it looks GOOD! | ||
| Delta_one |
well looks or linear pull it doesn't matter I'm getting one! and maybe one of those full floating rear discs from Trojan horse  its not that I cant lock up the back... its that I cant stop locking it. stupid Michigan roads covered in rocks sand and last winters salt, then add all the car oil on top! greasy as heck! those lane arrows are big ol' stickers here and have as much tack as black ice. a linear pull would help me keep the back end from dancing the next time a teenage girl thinks her moms Honda has the guts to pull out in front of me while I'm going 45  but I digress. back brakes are great ignore them if you want but I love mine. I grew up on dirt and its still the first brake I touch when shedding the mph. | ||
| Wavex |
Coops53233: I never said I never use my rear brake. As a matter of fact I use it all the time. The only thing I said was that 1) the rear brake should only be doing 10, maybe 20% of your braking, which is very little and I think the stock brake is perfectly fine for that, and 2) I personally believe that whoever tells me they're modulating their rear brake (as in being able to modulate that 10-20% minor braking with their foot, while modulating the 90-80% major braking of front brake with their hand) is full of it. That's just my personal opinion, FWIW... I don't see why this would be any different for 2 up, but then again, that's just my opinion... If you can truly better modulate your rear brake now that you're using a better caliper, than that's awesome! You have a better caliper, lower weight, better look... that's makes it a good mod no matter what I think | ||
| Delta_one |
I personally believe that whoever tells me they're modulating their rear brake (as in being able to modulate that 10-20% minor braking with their foot, while modulating the 90-80% major braking of front brake with their hand) is full of it. That's just my personal opinion, FWIW... that's like telling a drummer he is full of it because he claims to play a high hat with his left foot a base drum with the right and a ride cymbal with his right hand while the left taps the snare. | ||
| Coops53233 |
Fair enough - next time you're on the east coast, you're free to take it for a spin. Till then, I guess we agree to disagree! | ||
| Wavex |
Delta_one: "that's like telling a drummer he is full of it because he claims to play a high hat with his left foot a base drum with the right and a ride cymbal with his right hand while the left taps the snare." Any good drummer will be able to do that indeed... like any rider would be able to press the rear brake down... but the nuance is more like "play a high hat with his left foot a base drum with the right and a ride cymbal with his right hand while the left taps the snare, and each hand/foot applies a nuanced specific force to each hit" more like a professional jazz drummer would do... or for our example, a professional rider... 99% of the ppl out there don't modulate their rear brake... that's why most manufacturers make it real stiff, so you don't lock it easily and don't have to modulate anything, you just press it and it helps you slow down. It's got an ON/OFF feel to it only. Per this http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9510_motorcycle _braking_tips/index.html Hard braking using front brake only: 151 feet. Rear brake only: 289 feet. Using front and rear: 146 feet. So rear brake gave you 5 feet over 150 feet distance, which is 3.5% braking power... Go ahead and modulate that if you can!  |
