| Author | Message | ||
     Slaughter |
I have to ask again - how many of us are willing to pay $150 for a pair of jeans? You can get domestic-sourced and domestically-assembled denim jeans. Put up or shut up. | ||
| Roysbuell |
I haven't commented on this thread yet so here go my 2 cents. I live right on the border of Texas/Mexico. Most of you have no idea how many US companies operate "Maquiladoras" just on the other side of our border. These factories assemble "made in the USA" products for US companies using cheap labor and pay as little as 10 US dollars per day for a day laborer and as much as 45 dollars a day for engineers. As much as you would like to think cost of living in Mexico is dirt cheap it is not. I got a lump in my throat one time I went to do an install in Mexico and the guy that the company gave us as an escort to and from hotel told us of his struggles to feed his family. He said I have to work to feed my children because they have to eat everyday, I am an adult I can go 2 sometimes 3 days without eating. Sometimes I get stuck at the train pulling 50 railroad containers each containing pick-ups and cars "Made in the USA" but assembled in Mexico using parts from who knows where. (Pick up truck owners look for EU stamped on the frame, it stands for "Estados Unidos" or "United States" this would be a very good indication your truck was assembled in Mexcio. I purchased a GM Goodwrench crate engine for my '84 Blazer with "Hecho en Mexico" stamped directly on the crate, so just because it is GM don't think your doing a fellow American a favor. Once using the toll road that bypasses Houston. I actually saw the destination of those containers. It was a railroad yard specifically for unloading those cars. About a mile wide by at least 2 miles long, with new cars as far as the eye could see and with a caravan of car transport trucks waiting to recieve their loads. Mexico has special tax laws that require anything being imported to be taxed enough that it is competative with local made products. Why does the USA not have these laws? Because our government works in favor of the companies that could care less if you have a job or not. | ||
| Pdccd |
$150 jeans?? I think more needs to be known of your $150 jeans. I assume since they exist, someone is indeed willing to pay for them, therefore your question has already been answered, in part. I assume those jeans are sought after for the fashion affiliation, and not their specific quality, or intrinsic worth. Now if your question, or more accurately, your statement is that domestic products will cost more than we are willing or able to pay, I argue that the very nature of capitalism will dictate that yes, a domestic product will find a domestic consumer. The problem has been greed. If the primary goal wasn't to develop the greatest profit margin at any cost for a fast profit for a minority, then sustained wealth for the masses would be possible, although idealistic, possible. The key to any sustainable political/economic system is a healthy middle class. That's what china hopes to build, start the engine with our fuel, and then ride the wind. The Capitalists are gambling they can control the dragon, and use that middle class of 1 billion consumers to grow their wealth. China's history is riddled with the ashes of dragon riders though... | ||
| Patches |
"how many of us are willing to pay $150 for a pair of jeans?" "Put up or shut up." In the not so distant past when the "Middle Class" was prospering they payed up to 5 grand above list price for a new H-D as an Investment. Have you ever had a Girlfriend or School Age Child that would only ware Designer Clothes. | ||
| Patches |
"The key to any sustainable political/economic system is a healthy middle class." "Despite the global recession's impact on local markets, companies are continuing to generate more and more sales from outside of the United States," says Howard Silverblatt, Senior Index Analyst at Standard & Poor's and author of the report. "This trend is expected to continue as an increasing number of U.S. companies continue to shift labor, capital, and resources to foreign countries, where a growing worldwide middle-class is emerging." | ||
| Roysbuell |
Patches- I just bought a pair of $200 riding pants but I figure its cheaper then a skin graft. I dated a high maintenance girl for about 2 weeks. Yes it was fun but I am your average self-employed middle class hard working American and it just did not work out well when she thought I could take her out every single night and that was NOT going to happen. But in the end I got my moneys worth, or so I like to tell myself. | ||
| Patches |
"I dated a high maintenance girl for about 2 weeks." And to think Anna Nicole Smith really Loved that Old Man. $$$$ | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Not really clear where Harley jeans are made but here's somebody's project of finding US made jeans. There's a pretty good selection for under $100 let alone $150. http://stillmadeinusa.com/jeans.htm Something to think about: the right to manufacture in the colonies was one of the issues in that 1776 thing. It's been given up pretty easily. | ||
| Court |
Careful with that "Made in USA" website. 5 years ago I did some research looking for "Made in USA" t-shirts. The Local Union gave me a list of "Union Made" t-shirts. I'll save you the long version, suffice to say they are made overseas and some folks put MADE IN USA labels in them in Ohio and give a share of their revenue to the Union. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Don't know how it works stateside, in terms of what is allowed to be called "made in USA", but we're not happy here in Canada about our laws. Made in Canada is allowed if 51%, including packaging and shipping, is Canadian. There are some organizations trying to change that. So, yes, the labels can be deceptive. | ||
| Pdccd |
If it hasn't changed in the past 10 years or so, it was even looser than yours. I believe it was a majority percentage of parts were US. So if the largest percentage of US parts was 15% and the remaining 85% was from various other countries, but none from a country with greater than 15% total, it could be labeled US. I learned that while i worked a Harley Dealership... Hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain, hard to understand. | ||
| Lonewolfnavet |
That is why I wear Dickies! Mechanic pants are great, to my knowledge, really made in the USA, and cheap compared to the... look at me I got Harley pants, under wear and socks, thanks to the child labor that made them overseas. Now I really look like a righteous biker and oh I have the born to be wild t-shirt too... | ||
| Court |
>>>Don't know how it works stateside, in terms of what is allowed to be called "made in USA", I posted them earlier in this thread. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=32777&post=1515791#POST1515791 >>>>Hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain, hard to understand. . . . and is inaccurate. | ||
| Pdccd |
Hmmm, i said it was old info, much changed in 94/95. More than 10 years but i was trying not to count. As for inaccurate, that's up to the FTC to clearly define/rule on. Here's a link, http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03 .shtm you decipher it smart guy lol. The only cut and dry part is the "Buy American Act", but that refers to the Federal Governments purchasing requirements. And as usual, it's full of loopholes. | ||
| Robinsage |
Makes one wonder how Erik Buell can hide behind the flag, yet my 08 XB12Ss wheels are stamped "CHINA"... | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Makes one wonder how Erik Buell can hide behind the flag I don't see how Erik is hiding behind any flag, but if I were him, I'd be proud of employing 200 Americans designing, engineering, and assembling motorcycles here in the USA. Also be proud of the fact that it is helping the local economy by coming out with new motorcycles, that need retooling. The tooling is generally kept fairly local to Southeastern, WI. Especially for the plastics. It's what has kept us busy for the last 3-5 months. HD and Buell both. You can whine all you like about CHINA on the wheels(and BTW, it's not stamped on the wheels, it's engraved in the die, and cast in place), but I'm happy he's doing what he's done. It's helped feed my family since 1998 (I did the tooling for the then new tuber EFI's air boxes, among others) I am proud of the fact that past, current, and future Buells will have parts that I, as an American helped create. But most likely not as proud as someone like Erik, who took his concepts from start to finish, with the help of several Americans. I suggest, if you don't like the Made in China on your wheels, why not go source your wheels made here? It can't be THAT hard, right? Make sure they can produce sufficient quantities to meet Buell's JIT schedule, with similar, or quality, and at a competitive price. Then send that info to Buell. I'm sure, with your criticism, that you could do a better job at sourcing USA components. While you're at it, why not demand in your quote request that the wheels be machined ONLY with American made machine tools. If you meant "hiding behind the flag" with the "American Motorcycles" badge, a good analogy is how can you call someone an American, if they aren't 100% native American? | ||
| Court |
>>>I suggest, if you don't like the Made in China on your wheels, why not go source your wheels made here? It can't be THAT hard, right? Precisely. I tire of folks hiding under the guise of false patriotism. If it's really that important to you get off your lazy ass and make wheels. Erik had such a dream, quit (in worse economic times than these) a great job at Harley-Davidson and went and did something. Talk is cheap. Erik and his team have created many jobs for Americans and are creating more everyday. Listen closely . . . there are NO wheels made in America. So you've got your big chance . . . a ready made market. Either do something or whine to a more sympathetic audience. | ||
| Androidgobotron |
Parts made internationally can be a good thing as long as no one is being abused for their labor. This keeps the world linked and reliant on each other, rather than the opposite. Instead of worrying about outsourcing jobs, I worry about slave labor and environmental damages in countries that have no rules and only care about profit that these jobs have. That is what we should be focusing on instead of "where it's made". I think it is a good thing that everyone has a job and a living wage, no matter where they are. We all have families to feed. Americans need to live to their potential and be the engineers and designers of things, not just factory assembly line laborers. Instead of worrying about losing jobs a robot can do, let's innovate and be leaders not followers. That's why I like Buell. Against the odds they are trying(and doing) some great things. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are America's greatest products. BTW If you want all-American, check out Confederate Motorcycles. VERY pricey, but a good example of not compromising. oops! even it has foreign parts! (Message edited by androidgobotron on July 19, 2009) | ||
| Vito |
>>>>>> Listen closely . . . there are NO wheels made in America. <<<<<< I would have to respectfully disagree with that statement. I found the following wheels Made in the USA. Upfront note-they are all for HD and I could find no fitment for Buell. A quick look in the J & P Cycles catalog (2009 version) shows Dominator Wheels are Made in the USA. The latest Drag Specialties catalog that I have (2006) shows the following manufacturers of wheels Made in the USA: Performance Machine; Ness Tech; and W-7. I also found one manufacturer in the latest Jireh Cycles catalog that I have (2007) shows Chrome Horse. Ness Tech was the only one that said it was "forged and machined in the USA". The others all said USA made or Made in the USA. | ||
| Froggy |
Vito, in a recent thread with a similar topic, someone else pointed out what you did. The problem with those companies is, they can't produce in a volume that Buell requires. Precision Machine made a set of aftermarket rims for the Tubers, they were nice, but pricey. | ||
| Vito |
It definetly could be done. I thik Beull coud do it, outsore the parts that can be, to the local outsource machie shops, ecpecially the SE Wiscnsin are. Possibilities-ENDLESS | ||
| Court |
Start tracking down the ACTUAL source of those wheels . . . I'm not talking about who sells them but rather who MAKES them. I do not know the answer. But after I did the same exercise for AMERICAN MADE t-shirts I learned a lot. | ||
| Vito |
I'm not sure what you are getting at (at the ACTUAL source). I've seen Ness Tech make wheels in house (on TV). Using them as the example, they start with a hunk of billet aluminum and cut and machine the part out. As far as where they get billet aluminum from, I would have no idea, Using that as the example-I'd say those wheels are "Made in the USA" | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Honestly? Billet wheels? For a sport bike? Why not just cast them out of lead. Two main factors control the source of the wheels (as I see it anyway): Cost and capacity. I'm sure there are other issues to consider, and quality is always a factor. I can only imagine how fun a job it would be to be the person in charge of quality control for sourcing wheels from two or three dozen small machine shops around SE Wisconsin. | ||
| Court |
Ness doesn't make enough wheels in a year to supply Buell for a week and putting those on would be like putting truck tires on a bicycle. That you for so clearly illustrating the reason Buell sources wheels from the BEST source. The more you know . . . the more amazing bike it is. | ||
| Ducxl |
www.durraniracing.com Now here's a struggling upstart trying to manufacture motorcycle wheels.BMC could help launch them to greatness,and employ some Michigan citizens Want a kazzillion wheels? Amortize the cost of manufacturing equipment into the cost.I've seen this done in the machining industry. That said,it's sad when you invest millions in manufacturing equipment only to have your customer show up on day one of production and tell you Poland will do it cheaper.And to lower your cost or lose ALL production biz.It's a cold,COLD business world out there. | ||
| Court |
Very interesting. Thank you. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Now here's a struggling upstart Precisely who you WOULDN'T want relying on for high quantity orders. The company folds and Buell is left with NO options for replacing the missing parts. What happens if Buell wants to spec a wheel that this upstart can't build or build in quantity? How many wheels does Enkei cast per year? What percentage of Enkei's annual production does Buell represent? If construction flaws were discovered, how quickly could an "upstart" retool and replace the wheels? Would an "upstart" be able to replace these wheels at THEIR cost without folding? I'd love to have a domestic supplier manufacture the wheels as well, but there isn't one that can match the current supplier. | ||
| Court |
>>>but there isn't one that can match the current supplier. That's true. But I'll be these guys, who were depending on Detroit, has LOTS of excess capacity. There could be some options. | ||
| Ducxl |
From their website: Durrani Racing Components is born of Design Engineering Services, Inc. (DES). DES is a world-renowned engineering and design firm based in Detroit, Mich. and has been a pioneer in the field of magnesium since 1993. DES founder and Chief Engineer, Sheryar Durrani, has dedicated the last 20 years to advancing magnesium solutions within the global automotive industry. With his pioneering work on programs that include the mighty Corvette Z06 magnesium engine cradle, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and in Formula One, Mr. Durrani has learned to constantly challenge what is considered impossible, and has built a legacy and a dedicated staff that share that passion to drive magnesium to the podium for all to enjoy. If they don't get their big break,the world may never know what could've been. Success happens |
