| Author | Message | ||
     Bigbird |
Greetings all! Today the weather finally cooperated enough that I was able to take my XB9 lightning out for it's first ride of the year. I'd almost forgotten how much fun this bike is. I try to ride year round as long as there isn't ice on the roads, but after the first good salting late last fall I parked the Buell and rode my beemers through the nasty stuff. Anyway, being that I am a Service Manager for a Harley-Davidson/Buell dealership I have the opportunity to trade up from my 2003 XB-9 to a 2004 XB-12. Is bigger better? I'm not convinced it is. I'm looking for the opinions of those of you who have SIGNIFICANT experience with both bikes. I got my XB-9 last April. I own several bikes and ride about 25,000 miles per year. Although I liked the XB from my initial test rides I didn't anticipate putting very many miles on it. I figured it would be ok around town or in the local twisties, but wouldn't be good for much else. I tend to take the Beemer (R1150 GS - a dual sport bike) on the longer trips because of it's "go anywhere" (paved or unpaved) capabilities, the ridiculous amount of stuff it can carry, and the fact that it is just a bigger, more comfortable bike. I save the Buell for my daily commute to work (85 miles per day), 3 day weekends to Deal's Gap and back (1200-1500 miles), and weekend runs through the hills of Southeast Ohio. Still I was able to put about 10,000 miles on the Buell in a little less than 7 months. The more I rode it the more I got to like it. The more I liked it the more I rode it. Well I liked everything aside from the torture rack Erik thinks is a seat. But that's another story. Anyway, I anticipate putting another 10,000 - 15,000 miles on the Buell this year, but I could put those miles on a new XB-12 instead. I'm not concerned about maintenance or breakdowns. The XB's are very reliable. I wouldn't think twice about putting 100,000 miles on the XB-9 I have now. But with the XB-12 offering more power I am tempted. How much power is more power? I know what the specs say about the horsepower and torque increases, and it looks impressive. But then again looking at 1/4 mile times there is less than 4 tenths of a second difference, which isn't very impressive. Comparing the 12 to the 9 I like the way the 12 pulls, but I dislike the fact that the redline has been reduced by 700 RPM. I also dislike the change in the primary gearing. The 9 seems to rev easier, and because of it's wider overall powerband it just seems like a more "useable" package than the 12 does. Personally I think the missing link for the 12 is a close ratio 6 speed (6th being an overdrive) and a return to the primary gearing of the 9. Having said all of that I have to tell you that my time on the XB-12 has been very limited. It was only after significant time in the saddle that I really started enjoying the XB-9. Will the 12 be the same way? Has anyone spent enough time on both bikes to offer some guidance? | ||
| Trevxb12 |
well, i just baught a 12 and have road a 9 a couple times. the more power is always nice but going through gears is alot faster, but the wrist doesnt get tired from wrenching for more power. there seems to be always enough to get by what ever is in my way.(old ladies, ricers, what-have-you) my recomendation is the 12 but it all really comes down to is your own taste and your pocket book. | ||
| Dbensavage |
I bought a XB9R with race kit and traded up to the XB12R. The 12 is stock and is tons more fun. Bigger is Better!! Just my 2 cents  | ||
| Opto |
Being a service manager can you wrangle a few days commuting to work on the demo XB12 model, that would help? Done 3000 miles on a 12 and about 6 miles on a 9. 12 also has a wide spread of power, I don't get into 5th gear unless over 60 - 65 mph, don't need 6th. Two blats, 1st and 2nd gear, straight to 60 mph. I'm not real keen on the 9 vs 12 thread title, they both go hard and they're brothers/sisters, it's not much talked about here, one family. As you know they are the same bike, do you prefer long stroke or short stroke? | ||
| Dehorridge |
I test rode both before I commited to buying a 9. I think the 12 is a better bike but not by much and hence I went for the much cheaper 9. In the UK there was at least a £2000 difference in price and I don't think that the 12 is that much better. The 9 is more than enough for me. D | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I myself am very partial to the 9's is bigger better?kinda like women some think yes some think no. I myself tho think the 9 is a better bike,hands down. but this has to do with terrain I am sure. If i lived in a more urban settting and didn't have t5ight twisty roads. I'd probably succumb to a 12. but then again I doub't it | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I have both. I like the 12 for the street and the 9 for the track. | ||
| Blake |
I like the Black XB12R. The look of that bike is too cool. Other than that, it's personal preference. I want a 9R with the black bodywork of the 12R for the track. | ||
| Seanp |
Blake - that's what I was thinking too. I just put down a deposit on a white 2003 9R, and I'm already thinking about how to convince my wife to let me spend the $700 or so that I've heard the black replacement bodywork costs. But then again, I don't know how the black would look with the lighter-colored frame. Anyone ever seen that? | ||
| Paulinoz |
The Black and Amber 12R rates as the sexist bike I have ever laide eyes on but that is only my very biased opinion. | ||
| Brucelee |
I have not ridden the 12. I CAN tell you that my 9 has really gotten much faster with the addition of the Buell race kit AND the 12 airbox. The difference is startling to me and I highly recommend it. | ||
| Noface |
Here ya go SeanP  | ||
| Gonen60 |
black bodywork on XB9S/R  | ||
| Noface |
wtf? I loaded up two images of my Firebolt. The other got lost or edited...? anyway, here it is again  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
 | ||
| Gonen60 |
are you going to paint the front fairing black.. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Not black but a deep dark Nissan Charcoal Grey. The tank and fender as well. Its a shade just off of the frame color. | ||
| Bigbird |
Well I got to spend today on a red XB12R. Before I talk about the things I liked or disliked, I want to address a comment that Wykedflesh made in another thread concerning my supposedly "not having any idea about the rideability difference between the xb9 and xb12..." I have no intention of starting arguments on this website, and the only reason I'm even posting here again after getting treated like shit in that other thread is at Blake's suggestion. If I get lambasted again for my opinions or for voicing the results of my experiences I'll simply be outta here. I don't need the frustration! Now with the disclaimer done 1st I'd like to say thank you for all of the responses. I needed your help, for the reasons I am about to explain: This subject has been on my mind most of the winter. Contrary to Wykedflesh's statement, prior to today I did have at least some idea of the difference, having talked about the fact that the 12 pulls harder in my original post here. But I didn't know much more than that. The problem is that being a Service Manager I have a department to run. There are customers, techs, service advisors, parts personnel, detailers, and various other employees that need help and instruction while the rest of you get to go demo the new latest, greatest Buell. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I LOVE my job. The point is that from the day the first XB12 got dropped off at our dealership until today the grand mileage total I had ridden on the new XB12 was 8 miles. I can't fall in love with a bike in 8 miles. I can't even figure out it's strengths and weaknesses in 8 miles. I need TIME AND MILES in the saddle to form my opinions. I don't get the opportunity to do that until one of you comes into the dealership and requests some demo rides. Then we get to turn a Buell into a demo, and when the weather cooperates on one of my days off AND the planets all come into alignment I get to spend an afternoon on the demo! I love Buells, but sorry wykedflesh, my customers come first. As much as I would like to tell you that I get paid well to ride lots of motorcycles the fact is I'm usually one of the last to ride a new model. That's life. I hope we cleared up that little misunderstanding  Fast forward to today. Finally the weather cooperated and I took a red XB12R out for about 130 miles. Some of my opinions are based on the fact that I own a lightning but was demoing a firebolt, and some of my opinions are based on the engine/powertrain differences. The engine is great! Although comparing the performance specs between the 984 and 1203 doesn't really look too drastic on paper, the larger engine seems to supply more useable power over a greater RPM range. I expected a shorter powerband due to the reduced redline of the larger engine, but perhaps that new exhaust system really works. The 3000-ish RPM "hole" that has always bothered me in the XB9 engine wasn't so noticeable in the larger engine. The drawback was that as I would cross the apex of a curve and start rolling on the same amount of throttle as I did on the XB9 (old habits die hard) it came on much harder, which really caught me by surprise as the rear slid out. I quickly learned not to be so hamfisted with the throttle. When I first rode a Firebolt I thought the seating position was just too aggressive. I'm disabled and it just wasn't very kind to me that day. I'm in pain a lot, and perhaps that day was just a bad one. But today I was much more comfortable on the Firebolt than I remembered in the past. It doesn't offer the upper body comfort of the lightning, but it doesn't break my ass like the lightning does either. I suppose that is a trade off. Like most naked bikes I have always found the lightning very easy to stuff deep into a curve. Perhaps that is due to extra leverage from the lightning's handlebars, I don't know. I couldn't seem to make the Firebolt turn in as fast as I can on the Lightning, but the Firebolt seems way easier to slide off of than the Lightning is. Basically for my riding style it means that as long as I am planning ahead I'll do better on the Firebolt, but when the sharp right hander catches me by surprise I don't seem to react as fast on the Firebolt. All things considered it's a really tough choice. Both bikes do certain things very well, yet they are so different from each other in certain ways. I'll probably get the XB12R in red, even though I hated the red when I first saw it. I've already had a Lightning, so the Firebolt could be a nice change. I want red because it actually does look pretty damn good once it's out in the sun, and no one else seems to want it which means it'll be a little less common. Thanks again for all of the help! | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Bigbird that comment I will admit was made out of frustration. A frustration that should be aimed more at the dealers decision makers then at employees in your position. When I deal with the service department or even the sales staff the last thing I want to hear when I bring my bike in is "I wouldn't know I haven't ridden that model". But at the same time I look at someone in your position and probably wrongfully expect you to make time to be able to get the saddle time on the new models so you can objectively answer my questions. I can honestly say that is due to dealing with service managers and dealerships that in the past made certain that the key people got that saddle time. I appreciate your honesty that you were unable to get the seat time to make that kind of judgement and for that I do applaud you. As to the other thread...<makes jedi hand motion> these are not the droids your looking for  | ||
| Reepicheep |
That is a fantastic ride report! Thanks!! | ||
| Fullpower |
Hey bird glad you did not run off. you have mail. | ||
| Easyflier |
Bigbird, I don't have an XB12 but I have logged almost 12,000 miles over the past 14 months on an XB9R. The riding position takes some getting used to, and suspension setup is critical to really enjoy the bike (as you probably know already). The more miles you put on an XB/R the easier more mileage gets and the more natural it feels. I think what you found in that other thread is that we are loaded with strong willed and very opinionated enthusisats. No topic or detail is so small that it doesn't get a 110% response, totally full of type AA personalities.  Glad to see that you've weathered the initial storm and look forward to sharing the road with you some day. | ||
| Bigbird |
Wykedflesh, just to clarify the situation it is not my employer who is telling me I can't ride the bikes. It is the nature of the job. If I want to tell everyone to piss off so I can go ride demos one afternoon I can. No one will say a word to me about it. According to the dealership owner it's my department and I can do as I see fit. But then my work wouldn't get done and our customers wouldn't get the service they deserve. The only time I really have the time to demo bikes is in the winter, and being in Ohio that's just not a good answer. I won't go into all of the details, but just like many other professions there is 12 + hours worth of work to try and get done in a 10 hour day. Since I'm not the customer's first contact (the service advisor is) nor am I the guy turning the wrenches, a demo ride of each new model as it comes out is not a top priority for me. I eventually do ride them all, but only as I can work it into my schedule. Unfortunately for me we haven't had a combination of good weather, an available XB12 demo, and time in my schedule until today. Furthermore, we would never tell a customer "I wouldn't know, I haven't ridden that model". If a customer has a concern that we don't have the answer to I will have a technician ride a bike we have in stock for comparisons sake, as well as put a call into Buell Technical Support. The phrase "I don't know" is only acceptable to say to a customer if it is followed with "but I will find out for you". We don't promise to be perfect. Instead we promise to correct any mistakes we might make. We don't promise to have all of the answers. Instead we promise to find the answers you are looking for. We don't promise to know all of the nuances of every model out there, but I don't believe you'd find better customer service at any price. Maybe someday if you are in the area you can stop by and I'll give you a tour. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Bigbird... awsome pic in the profile by the way. Where is Centennial Park? That up north? I am in Cincinnati / Dayton. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
That unfortunately has been a common problem encountered by people on this board. | ||
| Blake |
That has to be one of the best comparo's I've read both for XB9 versus XB12 and Lightning versus Firebolt. Thanks for sharing that BB! Glad you got some time to ride before things get crazy in the shop this Spring. I've often wanted to jump in on conversations where the 9 is proffered to have a wider usable rev range. The 12 comes on so strong down low that I had trouble accepting that. I guess it depends on how you ride and what muffler you run on an XB9. The Drummer certainly does a good job of improving the low end performance of the XB9. | ||
| Blake |
I have a question... will Buell ever produce another model year of XB9's? There are no 2004 XB9's right? Or am I losing it? | ||
| Bads1 |
As does the drummer do the same for the 12 Blake. | ||
| Opto |
Haven't the 2004 9's got the new drive belt and sumpthing else? Lookin at Wyckedflesh's XB12S, I forgot how ugly the stock XB12 muffler is compared to a Drummer! No offense Wycked. Bads1, I don't know how you did it but I cannot get my 12 to run nicely on the race ecm, went back to the stock ecm, and now me and the 12 have reached a state of nirvana so to speak. Paulinoz, did you deliberately call the XB12R "sexist"? I call the XB12S a "good ride" | ||
| Seanp |
Noface - in one picture it looks like your frame is the lighter color, while in the other it looks much darker. Unless that's two different bikes? I think it looks pretty good with the black plastics on the light frame though. And the Blast I'm getting with the XB9R is a black one. Hmm... "C'mon dear, you want our bikes to match, right? Then we'll look so good riding down the street..." Now to perfect my game plan... Thanks for the pics, everyone. Now, is it relatively easy to switch out the plastics? And is there any way to get it other than from a dealer? Good deal... I could have a white bike for night riding and a black bike for day riding, depending on how long it takes to switch. Sweet. |
