| Author | Message | ||
     Snackbar64 |
Does anyone think I should be due a huge discount on my bike as it has been sitting at the dealership since 1-10-09 for a 10,000 mile service new tires, check an engine oil leak (which they said they could not find) and replace the belt? They just finished it last week and hit me with a whopping bill. During the time my bike was there they fitted the wrong tires and ordered the wrong drive belt. What is the number to call and complain? Do I have a valid complaint in your opinion? What would you do? | ||
| Dennista15 |
Oh geez, that's crazy. They may as well bought it if they kept it that long lol. That's ridiculous. I would complain. How busy could they have been when you dropped it off in January. Did they have to ship your bike to a real Buell dealer to have service done, lol. Seriously I would expect some sort of discount or deal due to all the trouble they had and waiting so long. The only other thing to do is get a service manual and do it all yourself. It'll save you money and piece of mind. Any questions that you have regaurding service can be answered right here, everyone here will help ya. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
I know! I called and called each week and they made little to no progress and would never tell me how much it would cost because the Buell was a "different animal." Never been so disappointed! Is there a regional manager or someone I can call? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Look in your owner's manual for the number for Buell Customer Service. Politely tell them what happened (remember the person on the other end of the phone isn't the one that screwed up). Maybe you'll get some consideration. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
First, yeah, sympathy. I just got my bike out last week from the dealer who had it from about a week earlier than yours. Only, we called it storage, and they threw in pick up and included oil change. Your bill will be huge with dealer tires and install. Go over the bill carefully and see where they hit you the worst. Then go back and see what you can get. Second, going off your profile, as a comedian you'll appreciate the irony that before you wanted stand alone dealerships and now you want to a number to call that would make them accountable to somebody. Sorry,that's just my sense of humour. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Never, ever leave a vehicle for service without filling out the section on the repair order that states you require an estimate, and that they cannot exceed x amount of money without your consent. Dealers are legally bound by a signed contract when you complete that section- without it, you're at their mercy. I would not contact them again until you have spoken with Buell Customer Service. Make sure you have all the facts and details in order before calling Buell. It appears the dealer is attempting to take advantage of you, and it's totally unacceptable. | ||
| Dennista15 |
If it's a real Buell dealer then they have work orders for all procedures to be done on any given bike. This would list how long it should take to do the service and that dictates how much it cost. If they take 3hrs to do something that's only supposed to take 1hr then you should be charged only for 1hr. That sounds like a load of BS to me. I would definately call Buell, and yes be respectful to them. I forgot to say that earlier. I hope this helps and you can get some help from Buell about this. | ||
| Point_doc |
You might consider documenting and filing a complaint with your local BBB and Chamber of Commerce. My friend took his Uly rims into our local HD/Buell shop (Sweetwater HD in San Diego) for new tires. When he picked up the set, they bent the front rim and had the nerve to stand there and deny it. Long story short; he called HD/Buell and they blew him off. I encouraged him to write letters to the stated offices and within a short period of time he was reimbursed. The BBB and Chamber of Commerce responded to my friend’s complaint by investigating this business and asked questions starting with the manager and they also went up the management chain searching for an answer. When you send an official agency to look into the business practices, you have sent a very strong message to that place. They were able to get the attention needed where he was not able. I am not suggesting that you may get reimbursed, but what I am encouraging you to do are to have the BBB and the Chamber of Commerce investigate and force this shop to give an official account. Maybe in the future, they will take their relationship with the customer(s) more serious and provide a better service. Good luck… (Message edited by Point_Doc on April 15, 2009) | ||
| Andymnelson |
I have been seeing several posts with people stating that they got ripped of lately. Let me say something clearly (in fact, I'm going to yell it!): GET A WRITTEN ESTIMATE THAT YOU SIGN! They need to stick to written estimates, and yes this should include time to repair. In MN, we have a law that states they CAN NOT exceed 10% more than the estimate without prior approval. Not sure if other states/Canada protect you like that. I am in no way defending shifty dealer practices, but we need to become smarter consumers. | ||
| P_squared |
I can make an educated guess as to which shop it was. Have you discussed this with both the Service Manager & GM of the dealer? I don't 'think' BCS can offer you much, if any help here, as the issue is the bill from the Dealer to you, which does not involve Buell, except for possibly any Warranty work. | ||
| Zatco81 |
I don't know how the service department works at a motorcycle dealer but I work at a body shop and I can tell you that I NEVER add to an estimate without calling the customer. Granted most of the repairs are for an insurance company but sometimes, even in today's economy, I get a customer that is paying out of their pocket and I don't care if it's a $3.00 bracket, I ALWAYS let the customer know. We have a system that has every possible operation for almost every car on the road. If for example it says it takes 2 hrs to replace a fender you pay 2 hrs and the technician doing the work gets paid 2 hrs even if it takes him 1. That's how the technicians make money. It gives them incentive to work faster, to stay ahead of their pay, and generally get the vehicle done quicker which apparently didn't happen in your case. The length of time they had your bike is completely unacceptable, especially if it was an H-D/Buell dealer. The body shop I work for is at a Ford dealer and we just finished a Subaru that was here for 2 months. It was a $9000 repair but 3 weeks of that was waiting on parts, which is typical for that car (something to keep in mind if anybody is considering buying a Subaru.) I think the BBB is the way to go, I would definitely complain to them and Buell customer service. You have also done a good thing by voicing your dissatisfaction here and I would also post on every other Buell forum, Craig's list, and anywhere else I could find to let other consumers know. If it had been mine I would have taken a truck and picked up my bike as soon as they called it a "different animal" because they obviously weren't qualified to do the work at that point. Hindsight's 20/20. Just my .02. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
The service manger is in on this and totaled up my bill after the tech finished his work. Complaining to him won't help will it? I will see about the BBB as I can really do more damage in writing than I ever could with my voice. | ||
| Point_doc |
Snackbar, Make sure you send copies of your complaint that you file at the BBB to HD/Buell; first it will let them know that you are serious about your complaint and secondly so they back at the factory can have documentation on this dealership! | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"The service manger is in on this and totaled up my bill after the tech finished his work. Complaining to him won't help will it?" Last summer just before homecoming I had a dealer replace intake gaskets and my drive belt. Can't remember what the total bill was but I was charged 4 hours labor on the belt change, and a similarly high amount for the gasket replacement. Up to this point I had never tried working on the bike myself so had no idea what was involved in an X1 belt change because of the removable part of the frame. Anyway I rode the bike 500 miles to homecoming and found that the front intake gasket had been installed incorrectly and pushed out resulting in another leak. When I got back to the dealer (after replacing the gaskets AGAIN in the Sheraton parking lot) I went straight to the Service Manager and told him I wanted to speak with him in his office. Told him that I had learned about the removable frame piece that makes belt changes quick and easy, and that the intake gaskets had failed. I told him that I didn't care if I was lied to about the swingarm being removed to replace the belt or not, but in any case I was due a refund because the service manual shows a much easier and less time consuming method of doing it. I walked out with about a $400 refund for the entire intake gasket replacement and most of the belt change labor cost. Went to Sears and spent the money on tools, and I haven't been to a dealer for service since. To make a long story short, I think complaining to the SM can get you a lot. | ||
| Court |
>>>Is there a regional manager or someone I can call? The PERSON (that's ONE person) to call is the Dealer Principle at the dealer. Truth be known he/she is the ONLY person either responsible or capable of changing the situation. Don't get me wrong, the folks at Harley-Davidson, one step removed would LOVE to see every dealer experience a great one, but even they get slapped around by the dealer organizations and steadfastly maintain their independent status. Another step, two steps removed and in that "would like to know but can't do much" is Buell Customer Service. They are quite unrelated, although in the same building, with dealer relations, but I'm not sure what, if anything they could do to fix or change the situation. The furthest removed is "the factory". Again, this will piss some of them off and they hate to hear about this but they are not even the company that handles the dealer relations. Frankly, if it were me I'd call the dealer principle, clearly tell them what happened and that you are unhappy with the service you received. If that doesn't fix it my bet is that all the BBB chest pounding you want to do will get you nothing but frustration. That may be a more honest and frank treatment of the subject than you want but I am all about SOLVING problems not just finding someone to sue or yell at. Court | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
how much was the bill? | ||
| Davegess |
I'm with Court. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
"how much was the bill?" $1700.00!!! | ||
| Andymnelson |
Holy Friggin Crap!! I would never have paid it. Some serious hell needs to be raised. | ||
| Point_doc |
I have personally seen the BBB work and there was zero frustration when dealing with them. There was no chest pounding, no yelling and no one mentioned suing anyone. This is the most rational avenue to get answers that are otherwise not available thru normal means. Ideally, one would like to think that there local HD/Buell place would deal honorably with their customer's, but obviously this is not the case. Before pursuing any legal counsel, the BBB is the least evasive option. They are here to mediate between two parties. Again, there was no chest pounding, no yelling and no one mentioned suing anyone and least of all, no frustration with/from the BBB. (Message edited by Point_Doc on April 15, 2009) | ||
| Saratoga |
Good grief. 3 months? Not sure what they charged you, but the dealer wanted $176 just to install 2 tires on top of the ridiculous list price they quoted me for tires. | ||
| Court |
>>>They are here to mediate between two parties. Great. I do mediation and if I were mediating this case it would be open and shut. The owner FULLY went along with everything including leaving the bike VOLUNTARILY and (quite foolishly) agreeing to essentially a "work and continue to work at your pleasure with no limit on cost" by not limiting (I think this is required in many places). Fact of the matter is. . . I feel sorry for the owner, but if it came down to me having to mediate, in a case where I have to objectively evaluate the EVIDENCE (not what is morally or emotionally right or wrong) in this case, it's dealer 1 and owner 0. It does, from what we have heard here, sound like the dealership didn't act very responsibility. I'd take it up with the one and ONLY person who can do anything about it . . the dealer principle. NOTE: I'd win too. But I've gotten good at this over the years. I have learned things like not to arrive at the dealers 10 minutes after he gets a call from "Live at 5" about a customer abuse complaint. You may not like what I say, but I'm just expressing my PERSONAL OPINION after begin involved with THOUSANDS of Buell Owner problems over the last 22 years. I'd solve the problem. | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
yea dude, you should definately call BBB | ||
| P_squared |
If it's the dealer I think it is, that $1700 dollar bill probably breaks down along these lines: 10K service = ~$450 - $600 Tires = ~$300 - $450 Labor = 9.25 – 13.5 hrs @ $70 per hr. Take Court's advice and talk to the dealer principle. In the future, there's enough BadWebber's in the DFW area who are capable to help you for the cost of pizza/beer. All you need do is ask. www.BadWeatherBikers.com/TNT | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Scary thing is that number is not too far out of line based on tires alone. I wanted to have my tires replaced while it was in storage. Tires, from the dealer, were going to be around 550, install, etc, was going to run about 300, some discussion about bearings scared me. I saved 450 shopping around on the tires. And so on... Probably about 250 -300 on belt replace and install. Yes, sad, a lesson to us all. Ask first, get estimate, get a manual and tools. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
My biggest complaint is the amount of time it took them to fix the bike and come to this conclusion of how much it would cost. Even if I agreed to everything they did there should be a reasonable amount of time to perform such tasks, right Court? Most of the stuff I asked them to do was routine. They do not sell a lot of Buells there and probably don't do a whole lot of 10,000 mile services. They should have been more up front. If they told me it was a 3 month job and would cost 1700 smackers I would never have left it. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Yes, taking over four months to do what is most likely a two day job (second day to look for leak) is unreasonable. You need to show that you did call each week as you indicated (mobile billing?) and that you did express alarm at the delay. They need to justify the time. There may have been a delay in getting the parts, not likely, Buell's database is the best I've seen. When I order parts here in Canada, I'm told where in the world that part is and the expected time for it to arrive. Somebody could have been sick, but that is not at your expense. Mechanic was in jail, happens, again not at your expense. They would also need to show that they had explained the reason for the delay to you and you had accepted it. The delay is not reasonable. They should compensate you for that. The overall bill is quite possible so I'd avoid that. Follow Court's advice. Figure out how much you'd be satisfied with. Vote with your feet. There's probably a good reason they don't sell many Buells there and you just found it out. Seems like some people here can recommend other shops. | ||
| Sifo |
Sorry to say, but Court is pretty dead on with what he says. I would suggest talking to the Dealer Principal and ask how that figure was arrived at. $1,700 seem high to me especially considering that half of the belt change is already done when swapping the rear tire. Be courteous in your talk, but make it clear that you are quite unhappy with the price and delay. Does anyone know if HD/Buell have books/software that gives the allowed hours for various services? When I did body work years ago we used these books all the time. Sometimes I made out great, sometimes I got burned, but the customer always knew his cost. Only exceptions were for things like hidden damage under bumper covers that can't be seen until the bumper cover is off. That unknown was always made clear and we would get an OK on the exact price as soon as the bumper cover was off BEFORE doing any more work. | ||
| Point_doc |
How is Court right? He offers no solution! How is "I'd solve the problem. Court" a solution? "I'd take it up with the one and ONLY person who can do anything about it . . the dealer principle. Court" Take it up with the guy who did not give a flip when he was contacted week after week, right! "I called and called each week and they made little to no progress and would never tell me how much it would cost because the Buell was a "different animal." Snackbar" And Court, what would you do when you contact this “dealer principle”? “Great. I do mediation and if I were mediating this case it would be open and shut. Court” How were you going to do this? Sitting cross-legged while in thought is going to resolve this? O.K…. Again, for those who support Court’s position, show me where Court is right and then show me how Court is going to do this; lets read what Court said, “NOTE: I'd win too.”? HOW? The bloody dealer stiffed him for three months; how much more humiliation does it take to get the dealers message that he doesn’t give a flip about you and then they exacerbate the issue by charging an exurbanite amount for the job! No disrespect to any and all; but I have read and reread this and I have come to the conclusion that the dealer is clearly communicating with Snackbar and they are saying, screw you. But it seems that there is miscommunication between the dealer and the customer, this is when you need a third party that is BIGGER than you to assist with communicating your thoughts. | ||
| Court |
>>>Does anyone know if HD/Buell have books/software that gives the allowed hours for various services? Absolutely. I have them here. >>>>The bloody dealer stiffed him for three months; Precisely. If I get a nail in my tire, I remove the nail . . . not complain to the Lumber Association. Solve the problem, avoid the drama. The BBB, Channel 5, HD nor Buell have any "skin in the game" in the relationship between a dealer and a customer. Don't get me wrong, they have tertiary interests but unfortunately they do not have the power to do ANYTHING. I have a little rule I play by . . . . "I never take a no from someone who doesn't have the authority to give me a yes". No disrespect taken. I ran a business that won a host of awards, spent two years herding journalists (talk about folks you need tact with) for The White House, 18 months as the Congressional Liaison for the Commanding General of the USMC,retainer 20+ years of handling Buell and Harley-Davidson stuff and lots of time writing and speaking about customer service while racking up more degrees than any one person needs in Business, commercial law, accounting, economics and management . . . I'm giving you nothing but MY opinion based on my experience.  Just think . . . if you came to my office to get it you'd have to put up a $5K retainer and pay me $350/hr. Talk about a deal! Not for nothing . . . but from the days I competed in gymnastics for the next 45 years up through my graduation at Columbia in 5 weeks . . I've made a habit of winning. YEah . . behind my quiet exterior I have a bit of a competitive streak. |
