| Author | Message | ||
     Niceguyeddy |
Thanks! | ||
| Boney95 |
Just ordered one. I called Twin Tec and asked them if I could install now, and then when spring rolls around make an appointment for the dyno. They said no problem, told me to set all of the settings to 5, minus the 9 setting (acceleration), set that at 2 or 3 and I should be fine until I can get to the dyno. I can't wait! | ||
| Artic_12_r |
Cool I hope your as happy as I am. I would for sure get it dynoed. When I can get back to the shop Im gonna pull my numbers and try to help with a base line. By the way, Im not sure how many people have put their 08s on the dyno after a pipe install for a run but my bike was to my surprise running a little rich with just the race pipe installed. I know all are different but I wanted to share. | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
Any chance you checked those #'s Arctic? | ||
| Artic_12_r |
Ok, I talked to the guy today and he is going to try to print it out tomorrow for me. Ill try to post the dyno sheets as well. | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
Not sure if I was clear about the #s I'm after...not dyno pulls but, the numbers in your tuner. If you turn the key and look at the tuner it will show you the setting for each "pot" if you cycle through them. My apologies for any confusion. Marcus | ||
| Artic_12_r |
I know what you mean. I don't have the software at my house, nor the interface. It's at the shop. What I meant was that I will pull the tune values up and do a print screen from the computer. | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
Gotcha,thanks again Artic. This has been a long drawn out and frusrating affair for me (since last June) so please forgive my anxious demeanor. Marcus | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
just remember after the tune take the bike out for a 10 mile ride. all over the tps and rpm band. then have them re run it to verify its still tuned. if they over drive it on s stock ecm it will read the fuel in any loop. then cut the fuel back down. when that happens the cruise fuel will also be reduced. . if they are rich up top and standard in the cruise it will run lean for a while. really lean depending on how rich up top. just be cautious on this dont take the bike with out a ride and retest on the dyno. be 100% dont believe the well trust it it was right when it left the dyno. i see it happen all the time. after a ride its backed down the afv from the readings. all piggy backs have this issue on a self learning ecm. you really need to recode the ecm to handle the afr. or run a lc1 and rescale the fuel a little for offset. then you can see exact fuel afr. get the test ride 10 miles hard riding and re dyno it. mike | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
I installed the twin-tec last June, and had it dyno'd. 200 miles or so into an immediate road-trip and there were mid-range power cuts and a flashing engine light. It was bad enough that I removed it roadside and ended up repinning the connections (mid trip). | ||
| Werewulf |
thats not good! | ||
| Artic_12_r |
Not problem man just glad I can help. | ||
| Xxxh00liganxxx |
Marcus...I tuned arctics bike and we did not use the "pot's"...I tuned the bike in advanced mode so if you do not have the interface to tune in advanced mode the numbers we have will not help you in any way....mike "xoptimize" i have been speaking with you for sometime over email (flynon2wheels@aol.com) you are exactly right about piggy back units and their issues....I am still thinking about putting a resistor inline with the 02 sensor between the sensor and ecm on arctic's bike to make it read .45 volts constantly so it will not change the tune from what i tuned it to...I'm just going to measure resistance of a power commander o2 eliminator then try and find a resistor that size i can put inline on arctics bike....I like what you were telling me about ecm spy also though! Still i wish someone would make something just like a super tuner(for harley's) for a buell! | ||
| Artic_12_r |
Thanks, hooligan. | ||
| Xxxh00liganxxx |
ya thanks for letting me tune the bike....it was our first buell so something different but we will get a handle on that thing in no time! and I will get that file on a cd or floppy or something and give it to you so you can pass it out to whoever! P.S. let me know when you want me to ride some wheelies on your bike with your helmet and jacket lol | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
The person who tuned my bike went the advanced route as well, told me the "pots" were a waste of money. He did the advanced tune, so I was told. Set me back about 300 to do it minus the tuner. I had serious cuts at about 3300rpm or 62-65 mph or so. I still have the tuner and cable and would like to make it right. Perhaps the one doing the tuning is my problem. Btw, I'm waterhead as far as tuning goes...no experience whatsoever. Marcus | ||
| Boney95 |
Why do I hear all of this after I ordered a Twin Tuner myself... What the hell is the purpose of installing a tuner and putting it on a dyno if the ECM will override and void the tune!!!? Also I spoke with Hal's service Dept, and mentioned the interface advanced tune, they had no clue. The guy said it was for the at home guy who wanted to make minor adjustments. Niceguy, if I remember correctly you had your tune done at Hal's? All of this just popped my bubble... | ||
| Boney95 |
It was my understanding that the tuner is hooked up in line after the ECM, thus whatever the amount of fuel the ECM prescribes the tuner subtracts or adds according to what you set it at. So how can the ECM throw off the tuner when it relearns? Im guessing the O2 sensor comes into play here (which is after the fact since the read is exhaust by now)? I don't know shat about this stuff... I may be out in left field. How in the hell can they market and sell a product that will be obsolete with a relearning ECM? | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
Boney, my bike was not tuned by Hal's...however the tuner was sold to me by them. I'm in Mpls and don't even care to give up the shops name that "tuned" my ride. The people at Hal's said no to the advanced tune and that they could do it in 1 hour on the dyno with the pots if you did the install. Marcus | ||
| Boney95 |
Marcus, thanks. That clears up Hal's for me a bit. I wonder why they don't deal with the advanced tune? | ||
| Boney95 |
Mike, Also, what is the point of taking the bike out for a hard 10 min run then have it put back on they dyno to see if it kept the tune, if eventually the ECM will void out the tuner? | ||
| Boney95 |
Does the O2 sensor read how much air is coming into the bike or how much is exiting? Either way, I don't understand how the ECM will lose the tune or override the tuner? What ever the ECM outputs for fuel, the tuner is right behind it adding or subtracting. I figure one would need a tuner to compensate the ECM for the fuel parameters it can not adjust to? I don't know man. Any answers on this would be great. If possible, keep your answers as dumb downed as possible since I'm a dumb azz with this. Thanks | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
the ecm reads the O2 ratio. then its pre programed to adjust the ecm to the avg values its seeing. i call it the learn. as you ride it learns and constantly adjust itself. the bad thing is it does the entire fuel map. front and rear. so if the rear is rich and at the same rpm and tps the front is lean. guess what. the ecm will reduce the rear to the preset epa value for street use bikes 14.7. this also reduces the front. not its way over lean. the pops and studers you will see. it does this every so many minutes the learn that is and never stops. thats where the bikes get the afv numbers from. each bike is different. proper tuning takes time to do it. you have to have the full 256 scale to do it correctly. all rpm and all tps. piggy backs do sections. you can be way off at on and on at the other then off again above that in the actual maps. making it run awful. whith in this small area. the piggy back see's that whole section as a mid or top being its tps related. they just dont work. its a very basic to the most extreme. i dont know how they even say they work when the bike will override it from the o2 ratio it sees. what a joke. you can set it to read good on the ecm and on the dyno. ride it let it do its learning. then the afv will have moved from the exhaust gases. no way around that with piggybacks impossible!!!{yep impossible to do that} you can do it in the ecm by changing data. this is what needs to be done. again another company who has a name and a good marketing scheem. ripping off many people on items that dont work like the say. you cant beat a actual fuel map and recoded ecm at all. it doesnt matter who tunes it and what credentials they have. a retuned ecm will hold data once the learns are coded to the scale they need. if they only do the fuel maps. guess what it will do the same thing. it learns from the O2 ratio. they must code the ecm to accept the new ratio's. if not. you got burned again. i see it all the time. its quite funny as shops explain this to people and i listen in. with the panic in my eyes and ears. some people buy into it. then the next time they dyno the bike they think it needs a rebuild when all it did was relearn and reset itself to the afv. a love hate thing. very easly done. if you want to spend money get a lc1 unit from innovate install it. set it to gasoline. feed the line one to the ecm then you can get the best tune. add a second one to the front cyl and do both especially if you have done engine work. offset the afr to 14.4 due to the 10% ethanol in fuel now. everything will clear up. gasoline burns at a afr of 14.7 stioch ethanol burns at 9.0 afr and at very high compression. they blend it we need to blend the ratios not much but a little. best power with the blended fuel is 13.2 on NA auto and cycles without the 10% 13.4/13.6 rule of thumb. back to piggy backs dont do them. get a wireless connection or cable for ecmspy and do it yourself. if your on a 1125 08,09 xb 08 or 09. they can be re tuned with assistance. its different but it uses ecmspy the same. you have hope. plus it cost a fraction less. | ||
| Xb9 |
"they just dont work. its a very basic to the most extreme. i dont know how they even say they work when the bike will override it from the o2 ratio it sees. what a joke." +1 Mike. Been there, experienced that. Mike speaks the truth guys. These things are a mess with the Buell ECM. | ||
| Xxxh00liganxxx |
mike is exactly correct but i believe if you put something like a power commander o2 eliminator on the bike a piggy back will be "OK"...ok not great!!!! with the o2 eliminator ( a resistor making the bike think the o2 sensor is alwasy reading .45 volts...greater then .45 is rich less then .45 is lean!) then the bike will run exactly to the map you install in it due to the o2 sensor always "reading" .45 volts...i want to try this out and see what happens! not sure how it will work but im gonna try it on arctics bike lol | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
Xop wrote, "...can be tuned with assistance...you have hope." Please explain. Marcus | ||
| Moosestang |
.I am still thinking about putting a resistor inline with the 02 sensor between the sensor and ecm on arctic's bike to make it read .45 volts constantly so it will not change the tune from what i tuned it to.. Why not just disable the O2 sensor using ecmspy? You could set it to come on at 8,000 rpms or at a tps reading of 110.making it a constant voltage like that is just like disabling it. Or use ecmspy to lock the AFV to 100.  (Message edited by moosestang on January 26, 2009) | ||
| Boney95 |
Anybody want to buy a brand new, still in the box Twin Tuner, or a also brand new ABS open air box kit?!!! When I go pick it up from the dealer, I'm going to see if I can speak with the guy that would do my tune and see what he tells me. Hopefully he'll let me show him this thread... I'd go the ecmspy route if my warranty was over (1 more year) and I had somebody local who could personally help me. I'd have to buy a new labtop also. The one I have now was bought in 2000, it has windows 98! | ||
| Bombardier |
So if the ECM always thinks that the bike's mixture is .45 what happens when it is actually running lean? Because of the configuration of the fuel pump - pump then pressure regulator then filter - you can actually be running less fuel than what is inferred for the map at any given rpm. Better to monitor this than ignore it. Sound's like a hole in the piston or a burnt valve to me. I am with Mike on this as the LC1 seems to be able to add more fuel to make it run richer and not just fool the ecm regardless of the actual mixture. Sounds a little safer to me. | ||
| Cruzin2 |
ok, I know that everyone here is allot smarter than me but I have a basic question.... Is the Remus powerizer a piggy back system as Xoptimizedrsx is discribing or will it work. I am looking for a very mild increase (Keep my '08 from running too lean with my slip on) and don't have access to a reputable dyno shop. |
