| Author | Message | ||
     Aaron |
Richie, my apologies ... I know for a fact that there is a firstg generation Force pipe that performs poorly, I've tested them, but I admit that I did not go dig out the referenced Battle2win issue, I just assumed by the date that it must've been the old one. My mistake. I can certainly agree with you on the ineffectiveness of the pipe on a stock M2, although I maintain it's got more to do with the cams than the heads. | ||
| Bads1 |
Noface nothing like the old ones.This is not a debate.Have you seen a force XB pipe break yet.I have and one hell of a big mount on those things.But maybe they will get it right this time.But for the money and little seat of the pants improvement I can buy two Drummers for the price of the Force.When I spoke to them last what did they want.... uhmmm....someting like $1300.00 and some change if I remember right for there kit.Thats alot of ching, ching for something to break and may have a hard time warranting it.$625.00 for the Drummer and what you need to go with it.To me dollar for dollar a better deal and I know it won't break its the stock muffler who ever heard of a stock muffler break and produce good numbers??? | ||
| Daves |
We put a Force pipe/o2/PCIII/air filter on an otherwise bone stock XB9R and got 89 hp out of it on our usually "unhappy" dyno. If you like loud, like I do, the sound is enough to give a guy "wood". Now if Johnny can just make it so they hold up all will be good. I have talked to him, or rather, listened to him talk!(those of you that know him, know what i mean)and it sound to me like he is addressing the issues of the breakage and will have a pipe that will hold up. Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Aaron |
Glad to see others corroborating our results. Here's a chart that might add some perspective:  (couldn't resist tossing my M2 onto the chart, pardon me) As you can see, a 9 with a Force pipe makes almost as much power as a 12, it just needs an additional 700 rpm or so at almost any given point to do it. BrianG, if you can send me the dynorun.xxx file for a Drummer pull, I'll be glad to toss it into the mix. edited by Aaron on December 26, 2003 | ||
| Grndskpr |
When Scooter from ATC came here to WI. for the 20th.He had a proto on his XB and it broke 5 min after he arrived in the host hotel lot. I talked to Scot, at the gas station when Dyna, myself and glen went ahead of the group, to arange the police escourt in to town, Scot said he put the force on wrong, nt following the directions, just to se if it would break, it was his way of testing out the system, he also mentioned that the pipe had been on for months previous with out a flaw, but wanted to se what would happen if you did not follow the directions, i belive the pipe broke after a series of wheel lifting runs in a hotel parking lot the moral of the story is that if you follow the directions on how to install a pipe and header system you may not have problems down the road, if you decide you know more than the company who made it, it will break, i have since than, ask everyone i know who has brken a force "did you follow the directions" and i ahve yet to hear a yes But i will agree, the pipes way to loud, and will NOT work with a chatter box, sets it off every time you give it any gas later | ||
| Bads1 |
Roger I was the there when it cracked and I know that Scott said he was putting on tighter then Force recomended.After my buddy welded it mind you it cracked the next day before the 20th was over.It cracked right next to where my buddy welded it.I helped Scott put the pipe on after it was welded the first time and he made sure it was put back on the correct way because he didn't want it to break while he was here.So he made sure it was by the book.But it broke anyway.That had nothing to do with my buddy Dave,welder by trade and at that time made exhaust systems for airplane's | ||
| Grndskpr |
So Dana, scott put the pipe on wrong, did whelies and stopies, cracked the pipe, welded up, made a couple 140 mph runs, more wheelies, some more stopies, and it broke again, and your surprised, yet when installed correctly, the pipe was fine for several months while i am sure your freind is a great welder, once its broken and rewelded, there never the same, never the exact fit, and never they way they were when new, even stock pipes, once rewelded, will never install the same again(i have first hand experience with this, since the pipe on my S3 broke a weld) I also was under the impretion that Scott had welded the pipe, i will email him and ask him again later | ||
| Bads1 |
Heres something I don't understand though.If Scott tightened it more then he should for testing reasons why would he travel so far and take the chance that it would break.Then possibly be without for duration of the 20th.Luckily Johnny had one over nighted to him.I'm not knocking the pipes performance at all but it is the most expensive on the market for BUELL'S and for that much money I want reliability. | ||
| Grndskpr |
Because the bike was on a trailer. so if it broke. no big deal, there are welder across the country, getting it welded up would be no big deal as far as the price, i wold agree, 699 for a tube frame pipe(no idea what it cost for a Xb) is on the high side, but i have a stock pipe on, i really dont need extra sounds in my helmet plus i dont feel its all that restrictive, for a stock motor, but to each his own later Roger | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
The Force seems to be lightly constructed. But, I have 18,000 miles on mine. I have broken exhaust mounts, but the pipe is fine. And, I've ridden around with a broken rear mount or a front mount, on different occassions, for I don't know how many miles before noticing it. The pipe still did not break with only a front or rear mount holding it on. This is on a 2000 Cyclone with the original front exhaust mount, not the Y mount. Aaron is correct about the cams. M2 cams don't work well. I have Lightning cams & it works great. | ||
| Misato |
yeah, it comes with NO DIRECTIONS just tighten to factory specs, which I know some people said they did | ||
| Richieg150 |
I have riding buddy,who sent his bike to Nallins to get worked on.When his bike returned,he had another riding buddy(factory trained HD mechanic,specializing on Buells)put on his Force exhaust.There were no instruction enclosed with the exhaust,so he called John at Force and was told the specifics on installing the pipe.He installed it per their specs.,couple hundred miles later............guess what????????????BROKEN FORCE PIPE!INSTALLED CORRECTLY!The BULLSHIT about the pipe not breaking if its installed correctly is just that BULLSHIT!Of the XB bikes we ride with,the three with Force exhaust,have ALL BROKE PERIOD! | ||
| Dynarider |
I know what Scott said during the 20th, but personally I think he just didnt want to say bad shit about Force at the time. He wants to sell the products thru his site & if he is heard bad mouthing them..well you can figure out how well sales would be. Course it could also be that he actually was supposedly trying to break it. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
aaron I'll call ya on monday I got a question for ya also on some cams. Just looking for one more opinon on something. Dave I have listen to johnny also.Know what ya mean. I will say this I had the force pipe on my 98 S1. I loved it for a while then I just got sick of hearing it. It broke once and They replaced it with out any questions. So my dealing were ok with them. And just if you wondering that was before I was in the business so no there was no special treatment. Then the fron mount broke and I fixed that. I like the force pipes myself , for their performance but I ain't much for that kinda sound anymore. I guess I am getting old! Plus I have an issue with the price. But hey econ 101 once again , what the market will bear is what I say. If thats what they need and want for the pipe that is their decision in the market place. I would love it if they'd make a header that went in to the stock pipe. That way I could see what a drummer with a stepped header would do. I do wish them luck in getting the breakage worked out tho. Because like I said performance wise it seems like a good pipe. a little rich for my taste still. I have something going on in my head about a mod for the xb in conjuction with the drummer that would get even more bump up. and still be cost effective. But I could be wrong. | ||
| Aaron |
i think on a dollar per hp basis it's a bargain. What else can you do to a bike for $1300 that adds huge buckets of bottom end power as well as 14hp on top? Compare it to what the old tuber race kits used to cost. and what they delivered. But I agree with Richie. The failure rate is totally unacceptable. I have confidence that they'll get it sorted out, though. | ||
| Aaron |
Oh, and I LOVE the sound. They just snarl. Sounds like a dragster. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
aaron When I say it cost too much I strictly mean for my blood and wallet. Thats why I say , what the market will bear. Like I said I like the performance of it. but if we are going on the per hp basis, the drummer should be about $700 or $800 bucks alone. Thats too rich for my blood. But I am cheap bastard to begin with. but I never said the performance of the force wasn't good. but like you said the failure are unacceptable because to get the performance it must be attached to your bike. I hope they get it figured out. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Scot said he put the force on wrong, nt following the directions, just to se if it would break, it was his way of testing out the system, Roughly the equivalent of doing an A-B comparison on a parachute by first leaping from the plane without...? Please | ||
| Grndskpr |
Trolling again Court were you there?? No Dana was, so was Dyna, so was I, now you may disagree with what he did, and you may agree that he was protecting and interest he had in selling the pipe, but since you were no there, did not partake in the conversation, why would you atempt to make someone or some product look bad Seems Dyna has ben good as of late, and you have now taken on his roll to bash individuals interesting I am no longer interested in this subject | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I wonder how the force header would work with the Drummer....(things that make you go hmmmmmm) | ||
| Jasonblue |
Don't hear alot about the D&D anymore. Where does it fit in, in the Drummer/Force debate. Personally the D&D looks the best. The Drummer just doesn't look good to me, seems to need some refinement for the money. Although it sounds like it performs well. | ||
| Court |
Roger: Actually, some of the facts, as stated, were quite flawed. Not trolling, just sorta kinda calling a person a liar without coming right out and saying it. Frankly, at least one of the parties to the events was as full of shit as a Christmas Goose. I marvel that the bullshit, so dispensed, is lapped up with such vigor by some. Deal with it. The event was a "test" like I am a brain surgeon. You and I agree.....the bullshit and misinformation has reached a depth sufficient to obscure my interest. Court | ||
| Usapitbullz |
I really like the Force setup, I hope they get it all sorted out for next seasons track days!!! L8R, JM | ||
| Jasonblue |
Talking about the D&D again- I was on another Buell dedicated website and they had a product reviewof the "NEW" slip on for the XB's. Anybody have one of these? What were the changes? Looks like they do not have the chrome tips anymore. I haven't been keeping track so it may not be that new. Jason | ||
| Daves |
Jason, I have sold several D+Ds for the XB and they don't have chrome tips on them. I have a couple more on order(it takes about 2 months on average to get them from D+D  ) But I should have mine in a couple more weeks or so if you're interested. They list for 595.00 I sell them for 535.00 Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) 1-800-342-7539 ext 14 | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Jasonblue I've sat all weekend thinking about what you have said and was just gonna let it go. But alas I am me and I usually speak my mind. If you don't like the look of the drummer, thats fine everybodies entitled. but Refinement for the money. Well lets go there shall we. It's welds that you can see look as good as whats on the D&D and other than that the look is exactly as the the stock pipe. the performance has been tested and bluntly kicked the D&D butt. It weighs 1.8 lbs less than the D&D and it can be had with in one week of order and not on back order for 2 months. it has a nice polished stainless steel end cap and was actually developed on a bike and not just thrown together in an attempt to capitalize on the fact that there wasn't much on the market at that time. I hope they have come up with a "new" slip on. The D&D for the tubers was the best in my eyes as a slip on pipe.But they came up short on the XB'S in the performance department. and then the final thing is, $595.00 compared to $350.00, so for the money what do you mean more refinement. should we have made it look real pretty and cool and said "well the performance ain't quite right, but hey it looks refined". that don't work in my world,when I spend money I want function over form everyday of the week. Plus What you can't see on the pipe and certain little "refinements" for performance. are worth every penny. but hey to each there own. but to answer your question where does it fit in. right here in this disscussion. but performance wise its been proven. Brian half of the lil drummer boys. | ||
| Grndskpr |
Brian as dumb as this may sound, have you ever thought of having one of your drummers HPC coated, so that if someone wants some Bling with there pipe they can have it, i mean i am nt sure you can have it done, but i dont think it would be that hard Here is a link, if you have time seems like it could have its advantages, i mean more than just looks http://www.lo-ko.com/services.html And in case your wondering, i have used this guy for 2 frames, he has always been quick with quality results, his prices are very fair, but i can not say that i know him, nor does he know me, hes just a local business guy who takes care of all of his customers, and i can appreciate that, plus he does great work again not trying to tell you what to do, or how to run your business, just maybe an idea to help expand it later Roger | ||
| Buckinfubba |
roger We powder coated one for a local that wanted it done. Yes we can do it of course for a price and we've always said we could. so thats been taken care of. thanks didn't take it as telling me how to run my business. always on the search for new Ideas. | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
Bubba, I saw a Drummer on an XB at Orlando Harley/Buell. Bob showed it to me. Excellent job on the welds & appearance. Dave | ||
| Jasonblue |
Brian, My appologies on the money vs. refinement issue. I had it in my head that your drummer was $600 not $350. That does make a big difference. And I maybe should have choosen different words. I am not questioning build quality or craftsmenship. I guess its a matter of personal preference. I just want something that looks really good and gives exellent performance improvement. I don't doubt the perfomance capabilities of your drummer, never did. But like you said, it looks like a stock muffler when bolted on. To me it looks like a stock muffler thats been modified. Like I said before the D&D looks best to me, I wish it did match yours in performance. I would have bought one a long time ago. Jason |
