| Author | Message | ||
     Surveyor |
I'm looking to get another track season out of my XB9r which is now looking a little lacking in power. I'm currently running a full race spec including tyres, exhaust, tuned ECM, ram airbox free flow filter etc so I think I'm at the end of the road in terms of the usual tuning mods.....unless I've missed something?I've considered the usual big bore kits, gas flowed heads etc but from what I've read about supercharging it seems to give the widest spread of power, and provided the bottom end can cope with the extra loads there should be no problem other than fitting the charger and getting drive off the crank. I'd be really grateful for any experience or advice on this particularly if you can recommend a supercharger and how it's fitted and driven. Thanks Surveyor. | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
I was browsing around, just sharing some pictures.... turbo http://www.streetfighters.com.au/images/gallery/buell/mark-BD_buell/ASF_feb_cal5.jpg electric ram air  | ||
| Surveyor |
Ochoa, I've seen that one too. An electric supercharger. It's difficult to see how it can work unless the fan is regulated by the engine speed or better yet the ECM. Does anyone know anything more about this? | ||
| Nik |
Electric superchargers are for the most part complete snake oil. To actually be able to compress air fast enough the motor would draw so much current it would drain the battery in no time flat, not that those little motors most come with are powerful enough. The real electric supercharger setups consist of a traditional positive displacement supercharger connected to an electric motor (or many) and a whole bank of batteries. | ||
| Ducxl |
I don't feel this engine platform is engineered for anything more than 110hp.And the money involved in getting there is prohibitively expensive. I once built a Sportster "grenade" motor.Nothing but headaches.Never again,my expectations of this engine are more realistic nowadays. | ||
| Hogs |
Duckl, Good point, I think 110 RWP and one should still be reliable... 110 at the back wheel, and I wd. be a happy camper, No need to look for anymore than that...115 wd. be just a bit better LoL | ||
| Moosestang |
Leave the electric superchargers to the riced out honda civics and toyota corollas! I once saw a leaf blower mounted to a honda, doesn't mean it's a good idea. I haven't seen any superchargers for the buell, except the one with a belt through the frame. Superchargers take power to make power and the buells don't exactly have a lot of extra power to spare. It would probably be a tuning nightmare as well. In other words, buy a faster bike. | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
how much power does a average vacuum cleaners motor push out??? motor would draw so much current it would drain the battery in no time flat what if you trade out the ceramic-magnets in the rotor & stator with stronger neodymium-magnets??? Would that be able to power the system??? I would think so, sounds like a fun project  | ||
| Slaughter |
Seriously, ask Walt Sipp. He's an engineer who DESIGNS superchargers for bikes - that's his day job. It's not trivial and do-it-yourselfing could be an awesome project if it worked out. | ||
| 2004xb12r |
Putting a supercharger that works on anything will cost you alot of money. I have a vortech on my mustang, it works good, and smog legal, if I wasn't concerned about being smog exemept I would have a turbo they make more power. Now heres the main problem I see buell's are air cooled and putting compressed air into them your reliability will go out the window. If I wanted to invest that much time and money into a buell I would just get the big bore kit as you mentioned but for a 12 motor, bigger cams and get the heads done, then most importantly dyno tune it by someone who knows these bikes. The XBRR has a 1340 motor in it I think, and it made a 150 horsepower. If you kept the compression at 10:1 you could still drive it around on pump gas with no problems. | ||
| Randomchaos |
Ive heard of those "leaf blower" electric thingys actually robbing power. Some cant even spin fast enough to let the normal ammount of air in at high revs and full throttle  | ||
| Nik |
what if you trade out the ceramic-magnets in the rotor & stator with stronger neodymium-magnets??? Would that be able to power the system??? I would think so, sounds like a fun project magnets =/= power. You'd get a lighter, smaller motor, but you still need to draw a bunch of current to make power. P = IV. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you are serious about this, I think a turbo would be a much better solution. Much less invasive to the motor (more or less external bolt on stuff), much easier to package, many more parts to choose from. We played with calculations here a while back, the electric boost machines are theoretically possible, but the amount of power required to drive them is way beyond what our stators can produce, and the electric motor itself would have to be very big. Why drive a generator to drive an electric motor to pump air, when you could have a turbo turbine driving a shaft to a compressor. Plumbing on an XB would be a chore. Remapping the ECM would be the next chore. I'd go normal tech. A 9 crank with a bored out cylinder and cases and a good head / map / exhaust ought to be able to get close to 110 HP at the rear wheel, provided it will be nowhere near street legal. | ||
| Slaughter |
I'd like to be the first to ask what suspension mods you have done and what classes you've taken. Turning, trail braking, throttle in mid-turn will do MUCH more than horsepower. Besides, turning faster lap times is RARELY just about HP - unless you're on the drag strip or doing land speed runs. I'd really work on the suspension, take some classes (Code, Schwantz, Pridmore) and re-do suspension and brakes. another 20 hp MIGHT buy you a second a lap... predictable suspension MIGHT buy you much more. | ||
| 09ltrain |
What would it take to build a XBRR motor? | ||
| Slaughter |
What would it take to build a XBRR motor? Not possible with any available components. The 3.125 stroke and GIANT bore would require purpose-built cases. Be cheaper to buy a used XBRR and make it work. The catalogue shows RR engines still for sale | ||
| Slaughter |
Seriously though - shoot Sipp an email. He does superchargers for a living and designs them for H-D products. I would also bet that he'd steer you away from thinking of HP as a solution to your lap-time issues. | ||
| Surveyor |
Seriously though - shoot Sipp an email. He does superchargers for a living and designs them for H-D products. I would also bet that he'd steer you away from thinking of HP as a solution to your lap-time issues} Slaughter, I allready mailed Walt based on your advice in a previous thread - I quoted you as my source - hope you don't mind. I have many years of road and race experience - I started with Jeff Crookbain racing school in 1977 and never stopped since so I'm probably a litttle old and set in my ways for school now. My bike is set up pretty well and I can ride around or under pretty much everything in the corners but the straights are killing me and the big japs and italians seem to be getting faster and faster - some can even go round corners too, hence the sudden urge for a little more straight line power. Brakes are another consideration, that 1098 Ducati really has some brakes, maybe a twin disk conversion with radial calipers is worth considering, but it would be nice just for once to pass something easily on power right? I never thought I'd need more HP specially at my age but I rode a few faster tracks this season and found myself looking for another gear. I considered a chain conversion so I could vary the gearing...but God I hate chains. I'll see what Walt has to say. Thanks for all the comments guys I'll keep you posted. (Message edited by surveyor on December 15, 2008) | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
magnets =/= power im sure if you have stronger magnets there will be more power output | ||
| Slaughter |
Way cool... and I apologize for having forgotten some of your posts from years past about your racing experience. No problem pointing to me as a source. If I wanted to be anonymous, I'd creat some mystery name instead of using my given name. | ||
| Uawjesse |
Do a search for member ericz, he has a turbo system that may be what you are looking for. | ||
| Smoke |
try an 1125r!! cheaper in the long run. tim | ||
| Hogs |
Reply from the turbo guys.. In a message dated 12/13/2008 8:21:59 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, pobox@ns.sympatico.ca writes: How about a nice turbo setup for the xb 12 Buells 2004 and up??? We are just getting our Turbo XB Program started. We will have the kits ready in the spring. Our objective is to get 120-130rwhp and 105-115 ft*lbs of torque. . I would be happy to answer anymore questions you might have. 605-393-0816 Thank you, Brian Olson Turbo Connection | ||
| Glitch |
Turning, trail braking, throttle in mid-turn will do MUCH more than horsepower. Y'all should have see Shred on his little 72HP 800cc air-cooled Ducati over the weekend at Jennings GP in Florida. Everyone was asking him how he liked his Duc1000. The looks on people's faces when he told them it was a stock 800 with exhaust! (the main reason the exhaust was changed was for weight savings.) He'll not say he has a lot of skill, he is however still sporting a pretty big grin. | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeah... I'm an engineer and in the December 2008 issue of Automotive Design and Production just on my desk TODAY is a short article on the electric supercharger for small engines with links: http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/wip/1208wip 02.html It IS an electric supercharger designed for 1.2L sized engines. Beyond the 2 paragraphs, I know nothing about it but just came across it a couple minutes ago. | ||
| Nik |
im sure if you have stronger magnets there will be more power output I misread your first post, I thought you were talking about upgrading the supercharger motor not the bikes charging system. But still the real electric supercharged linked about (and here: http://www.cpowert.com/) has a 2.2kW motor. At 12 volts thats a ~183 amp draw. My car's charging system only puts out 100amps, and I doubt my Buell is anywhere close... I doubt stronger magnets alone or even rewinding the stator would get your enough. (Message edited by nik on December 16, 2008) | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeah - 2.5 KW = 3.35 HP it'd have to payoff. That's a big drain. | ||
| Reepicheep |
3.35 HP? Why not put another little gas motor on there for your supercharger? (note... I wrote that in jest, but the more I think about it, the more I think it could work. It could take fuel and electric from the existing motor vehicle, be optimized to make good power at just one RPM, and start up from the existing intake flow and turbine... it could be "on demand" and only run when you whack the throttle in normal cases (where you would pick up a second lag or so) or be "always on" in "performance mode" and always spun up so there is zero lag.) You could even make it a little light motor with a little turbo charger  | ||
| Glitch |
I got a 2-stroke back pack blower. I'll put on the blower, route the output hose through my air box. It'll be a little bit tricky with the two throttles. Maybe I'll get Ann to ride with me and wear the back pack, and I'll just yell "BOOST" when I need that little bit extra.  | ||
| Hr_puffinstuff |
You could even make it a little light motor with a little turbo charger http://www.conleyprecision.com/ what if you made the snorkel into a puffer by sticking a R/C airplane prop in there, mounted to something like this http://www.teamtrinity.com/shop/large.asp if the voltage of the motor was regulated by the RPM of the engine.... sorry, i have R/C on the brain this time of year |
